I Don't Think Most People Hate Kids

[debrand]

desiringgod.org/blog/posts/motherhood-is-a-calling-and-where-your-children-rank

In this article, a mother talks about the fact that society, according to her, hates children. Apparently, we aren't fond of moms either.

Christian mothers carry their children in hostile territory. When you are in public with them, you are standing with, and defending, the objects of cultural dislike. You are publicly testifying that you value what God values, and that you refuse to value what the world values. You stand with the defenseless and in front of the needy. You represent everything that our culture hates, because you represent laying down your life for another—and laying down your life for another represents the gospel.

Our culture is simply afraid of death. Laying down your own life, in any way, is terrifying. Strangely, it is that fear that drives the abortion industry: fear that your dreams will die, that your future will die, that your freedom will die—and trying to escape that death by running into the arms of death.

Her quote below would not make me want kids.

But a Christian should have a different paradigm. We should run to to the cross. To death. So lay down your hopes. Lay down your future. Lay down your petty annoyances. Lay down your desire to be recognized. Lay down your fussiness at your children. Lay down your perfectly clean house. Lay down your grievances about the life you are living. Lay down the imaginary life you could have had by yourself. Let it go.

[liltwinstar]

When I was fundie, I assumed that everyone just sort of tolerated kids - that if you married, you had sex, and since you couldn't use birth control, you just kind of dealt with the aftermath (pregnancy/childbirth/children). I saw a lot of ugly behavior on the part of parents (some of it abusive) and I just thought that was normal. The more gentle parents in our community were criticized for being too lenient and having "brats" when really, they just had normal, curious kids.

So, I would argue that fundie parents are the ones who hate their kids. Locking them up in the house, stunting their intellectual and social growth, not buying them real beds, hitting them for all infractions, avoiding medical and dental care - that's all crappy, crappy behavior, not loving behavior.

[skankbiscuit]

i think it's a mixed bag. I have run into lots of people who are really, really intolerant of children. As in, "if they don't speak or breathe I don't mind kids" kind of thing.

[Jessica]

Lay down your perfectly clean house and yet these same Titus 2 Bitches say you aren't doing a very good job at being a Godly Christian Wife if you leave the sink full of dishes one night because you were busy playing with your kids.

[lilwriter85]

i think it's a mixed bag. I have run into lots of people who are really, really intolerant of children. As in, "if they don't speak or breathe I don't mind kids" kind of thing.

I agree it is a mixed bag. I have encountered people can't tolerate kids at all. Then I know many people who like kids in small doses.

[Guest LilaFowler]

I think Michelle Duggar is one that doesn't really care for kids. That's why she passes them off to her daughters.

[slickcat79]

You represent everything that our culture hates, because you represent laying down your life for another—and laying down your life for another represents the gospel.

I'm pretty sure most parents would lay down their lives for their children if they had to...regardless of their opinions on the gospel. And considering how many people have children, it would be kind of hard to argue that our culture hates them.

I don't particularly like kids, which is one of the reasons I don't intend to have any. That doesn't mean I don't want the best for them generally. Kids are vulnerable and deserve to be protected.

[skankbiscuit]

I have 2 kids, and I love them more than ANYTHING and think they are absolutely delightful. BUT I don't necessarily like "other people's kids"

[Artemis]

I don't hate kids, and have two. But I do thoroughly dislike children who are badly behaved in public, and who render everyone else's life unpleasant by their loud or unruly behaviour. I also dislike parents - and I dislike them much more than the children, believe me, who can't be a***d to bring up their children properly and show them these correct behaviours.

I think that there are certain behaviours that should be expected of all children unless there is a medical reason for them not to be expected. These vary according to time and place, but basically are things that conduce to a civilised society.

I've also found French and German children to be much better behaved than English children. And a lot of French and Germans consider English children to be very very badly behaved.

[ThisOlGirl]

I have 2 kids, and I love them more than ANYTHING and think they are absolutely delightful. BUT I don't necessarily like "other people's kids"

Oh, thank you for saying that Skankbiscuit! I feel exactly the same way about my 2 kiddos vs. everyones else's. I've made the mistake of saying out loud how I feel, and I usually get the "Well aren't you a cold-hearted, hypocritical bitch?" look.

[O Latin]

I find it interesting that so many people either believe that our culture hates children OR that our culture is ridiculously child-centered. I don't think that our culture as a whole is at either extreme. I think there are individual people on both sides, so your perception probably depends on who you spend time with. Personally, I don't particularly like kids, but I certainly don't hate them. I think there are very few people who hate kids as much as this lady seems to think they do.

[margiebargie]

Fundies like to paint themselves as heros for doing the same mundane, ordinary things that most other people do. Raising kids is one of those things. I believe something like 90% of people have kids. Based on that fact alone, I find it strange that anyone would think our culture hates children. It's just that most people are more cautious and, dare I say, responsible than fundies when it comes to having kids. They want to make sure they have adequate resources (time, money, maturity) to raise their kids properly. I read that as "love" not "hate".

[bananacat]

It seems like the fundies are the ones who hate kids. They're the nosy ones who will bitch and moan about a child who cries who in public. They're the ones who will literally butt in and give moms a lecture if their kids aren't perfect little robots in public. They like "kids" but they don't like anything that kids actually do.

I never complain about kids who cry in public, and I'm a single childless liberal feminist. OF COURSE it's an irritating sound; babies sound that way to get attention so it's hard to ignore. But babies are people too and have just as much right to be in a public space as I do, and it's not like parents can flip a switch to make it stop (unless they beat the will out of the kid with plumbing line). Fundies are the ones who hate kids who act like kids.

The U.S. also has a big problem with work-life balance, with basically no parental leave for most father and not very much for mothers. But guess who's trying to change that - it's certainly not the fundies who want to make work places more parent-friendly.

[Chrystal-J]

So, I would argue that fundie parents are the ones who hate their kids. Locking them up in the house, stunting their intellectual and social growth, not buying them real beds, hitting them for all infractions, avoiding medical and dental care - that's all crappy, crappy behavior, not loving behavior.

Yes, I'm always confused as to why people who act like they hate kids are the one's who have the most. I've seen this in fundie and non-fundie families.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Fundies like to paint themselves as heros for doing the same mundane, ordinary things that most other people do. Raising kids is one of those things. I believe something like 90% of people have kids. Based on that fact alone, I find it strange that anyone would think our culture hates children. It's just that most people are more cautious and, dare I say, responsible than fundies when it comes to having kids. They want to make sure they have adequate resources (time, money, maturity) to raise their kids properly. I read that as "love" not "hate".

THIS!!!!

[JesusFightClub]

I don't hate kids, and have two. But I do thoroughly dislike children who are badly behaved in public, and who render everyone else's life unpleasant by their loud or unruly behaviour. I also dislike parents - and I dislike them much more than the children, believe me, who can't be a***d to bring up their children properly and show them these correct behaviours.

Very true. No kids, not planning on any. I try to show some sympathy if a parent is obviously just having "one of those days". But I hate it when a parent can't be bothered to correct a child who is obviously winding everyone else in the vicinity up or who insults perfect strangers with impunity.

Or worse, when they're amused when their child misbehaves. I know that can be tough sometimes not to show, but it's sooo not the lesson any parent should want their kid to learn.

[Burris]

Some of those fundies beat infants with rods. Maybe they should take the plank out of their own eye before going after the mote in the eye of "our culture."

Also, I don't know of any non-fundie parents in the West who stack their numerous kids on storage shelves to save space.

I would say our culture does hate kids - and not just kids, but anyone who is perceived as more of a consumer than a producer. This is why social services and education are usually first on the chopping-block when times get tough, well ahead of military spending (for example).

It's also why daycare workers usually make close to minimum wage, and teachers are always bucking for higher salaries even while corporate execs and elite sports stars and A-list actors rake in millions per individual each year to produce - to produce corporate unity under a figure-head, to produce entertainment in sports and movies, to produce something the public values enough to pay the top individuals more money than the average person will ever see.

(Someone might argue it's unfair of me to compare top performers in one field - e.g., professional sports - to regular performers in an unrelated field such as child-care. It's entirely fair, though: The corporate world, the sports world, the world of entertainment - all those arenas produce at least some elites that make big bucks. Teaching and child-care don't produce such high-earners - not ever.)

[kb2]

Every time I fly, (it seems like it, anyway) I'm sitting in front of the toddler who has a screaming and kicking fit for at least an hour of the flight.

But husband and I have already resolved to live thousands of miles away from our families, and I know one day we're going to want to procreate (for completely selfish reasons), and we'll be in charge of the two year old meltdown in an enclosed space. With turbulence that won't let you get up and walk. So I try to think of my seat as having a massage feature, and don't give any dirty looks. Really, there's nothing for me to judge--they usually look like they're doing about as good a job parenting as I would in that situation.

I mean, yeah, I'm not super-fond of other people's kids. But one day I might be lugging around my own, and I don't want people to be a jerk to me, so I try not to be a jerk preemptively back. I'm not hostile to other people doing what I want to do in the future.

[Brainsample]

Every time I fly, (it seems like it, anyway) I'm sitting in front of the toddler who has a screaming and kicking fit for at least an hour of the flight.

kb2, someone else's miserable kid who decides to melt down in a confined space where you're trapped is no test of whether or not you like children or desire to have them!

[emmiedahl]

I get only positive feedback on my horde of children when we go in public. I suspect that some of the fundie moms have wild children or aren't good at keeping them under control on public. Zsuzsu posts all the time about comments she gets; I have never received those comments. I hear:

"You have a beautiful family."

"Are they all yours? It's nice to see big families. You don't see them a lot anymore."

Etc. Especially from old people. When one is acting up, I get a lot of sympathetic glances or "It looks like you have your hands full" but never the crap that fundies seem to get.

My experience with having a large family is that A. some people are against it on principle or for environmental reasons, but those people only share if you are close to them and it comes up in convo; and B. if the children are clean and neatly dressed, behaving reasonably, then most people will treat you like you are Mother Of The Year just because they can't imagine what you go through on a daily basis.

[Terrie]

I don't hate kids any more than any other group of people. I like some of them, and dislike others. I have trouble dealing with kids too young to have a conversation with. much like someone asked me to socialize with a potted plant. Parents, please note that this is about my awkwardness with small children, not the value of small children. I simply am not comfortable with them, and feel like I'm being the patronizing adult, especially with toddlers and preschool age kids.You know, like the obviously faking it children's TV show host.

[Brainsample]

If people hated kids, then no one would watch the Duggars, and everyone reading here would be somewhere else doing something different right now. Martha Stewart wouldn't be popular, and abortion rates would not have dropped from the high rates that existed in the seventies and early eighties -- across all demographic groups. That's not to say that the pro-life movement has had no influence, but it is more reflective of the generation's thoughts and reactions to the influences they had when they were growing up. The whole culture has reacted to dislike of motherhood by embracing motherhood on a large scale. It is in no way limited to Christians.

[keeperrox]

I don't hate kids, and have two. But I do thoroughly dislike children who are badly behaved in public, and who render everyone else's life unpleasant by their loud or unruly behaviour. I also dislike parents - and I dislike them much more than the children, believe me, who can't be a***d to bring up their children properly and show them these correct behaviours.

This, this, this, this, this, this, this.

I desperately want kids, but the time just isn't right, right now. Hopefully soon, though.

I'll be the first person who shoots parents a dirty look when their spawn in crawling around on the floor of a restaurant (yes, this happened at a Japanese Hibachi place near us) or screaming their bloody head off while the parent downs another margarita, but I'll also coo and fawn all over your well behaved bundle of joy. It's a judgment of the parent, not the child.

[valsa]

I'll be the first person who shoots parents a dirty look when their spawn in crawling around on the floor of a restaurant (yes, this happened at a Japanese Hibachi place near us) or screaming their bloody head off while the parent downs another margarita, but I'll also coo and fawn all over your well behaved bundle of joy. It's a judgment of the parent, not the child.

Same here. I'm completely aware that kids who behave like little brats in public are the product of jackass parents 90% of the time. Yes, sometimes kids just have a bad day and break down at the worst time/location and there's nothing you can do about situations like that, but you can usually tell by the parents' reaction and behavior whether the tantrum is the product of the above mentioned bad day or if it's "normal" for the kid.

Also, am I the only non-parent (or parent) here who would risk their life for a child they didn't know? I mean, if I saw a kid in a burning building or about to get hit by a car- I'd try to get them out/push them ouy of the way, even if it put me in danger. I really don't think I'm alone in that regard either. As far as I'm concerned, adults are supposed to protect children. It's just what's done.

[fundiefan]

I have no problem with kids. It's usually their parent's I can't stand.