How to get a woman to want to submit

[gustava]

The bottom line is that men are afraid of women because we bring new life into the world. They're physically stronger, but without us, they're toast.

[dairyfreelife]

The bottom line is that men are afraid of women because we bring new life into the world. They're physically stronger, but without us, they're toast.

This is something I've always wondered. In past cultures (way, way past) women were revered for their reproductive abilites. They could create life. Goddesses often had special places. Earth (Gaia) is considered a woman because of its life producing abilities. It's my hypothesis that men were afraid of being upstaged, hated their "lower" status. Let's face it, why do men really go to wars over women? It's not just strength. Men were seen as expendable over women. We know women can fight, can lead, can do most things men can do and produce life. In order to not be seen as useless, they put women down to bring themselves up.

Note: I don't think men are worthless, but many fundie and those with big egos think they deserve respect and are natural leaders over women.

[B5SnowDog]

I can't even picture what it would look like to "submit joyfully." The only thing that comes to mind is the original Twilight Zone episode, "The Chaser." A guy loves this girl, but she won't give him the time of day. He buys a love potion and secretly gives it to her. She ends up becoming so infatuated with him that she completely loses her identity, with absolutely no will or sense of self-preservation. She hovers around him, gazing at him lovingly, and won't do anything without him telling her first. In the words of the AV Club episode review, it's doubtful that she even remembers to feed herself without him telling her to. The guy quickly gets sick of the situation and goes out to get poison to kill her--with the woman waiting dutifully by the door for him to come back.

Whoa, I didn't realize the "glove cleaner" was poison, I just thought it was a counterpotion.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

ITA that a lot of these fundies have a big-time predilection for BDSM. What these folks are advocating is what we call "24/7 total power exchange." The sad thing is that I suspect that in a lot of cases it's one-sided - i.e., it's what the dude wants, and he's wrapped it up in religious language.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

This is something I've always wondered. In past cultures (way, way past) women were revered for their reproductive abilites. They could create life. Goddesses often had special places. Earth (Gaia) is considered a woman because of its life producing abilities. It's my hypothesis that men were afraid of being upstaged, hated their "lower" status. Let's face it, why do men really go to wars over women? It's not just strength. Men were seen as expendable over women. We know women can fight, can lead, can do most things men can do and produce life. In order to not be seen as useless, they put women down to bring themselves up.

Note: I don't think men are worthless, but many fundie and those with big egos think they deserve respect and are natural leaders over women.

There is a lot of work by feminist theorists to support this hypothesis. I highly recommend The Creation of Patriarchy by Gerda Lerner. There is also a lot of fascinating hypotheses about the origins of male rites of passage have to do with men needing to create an "external "structure to lead them through the major points in life since women naturally experience these markers on their bodies through first menstruation, pregnancy, menopause, etc., and some folklorists also suggest that the basic structure for many folktales (see Vladimir Propp) around the world seems to resemble the structure of these prehistoric initiation rituals (the young person being taken away from home, going through a trial, receiving some sort of magic charm, finding a life mate, etc.).

(Yes, this is one of my areas of geekery. :))

[DifferentGurl]

The only good time to get a woman to submit if she's into that kind of stuff happening in the bedroom. :D ;)

[2xx1xy1JD]

There is a lot of work by feminist theorists to support this hypothesis. I highly recommend The Creation of Patriarchy by Gerda Lerner. There is also a lot of fascinating hypotheses about the origins of male rites of passage have to do with men needing to create an "external "structure to lead them through the major points in life since women naturally experience these markers on their bodies through first menstruation, pregnancy, menopause, etc., and some folklorists also suggest that the basic structure for many folktales (see Vladimir Propp) around the world seems to resemble the structure of these prehistoric initiation rituals (the young person being taken away from home, going through a trial, receiving some sort of magic charm, finding a life mate, etc.).

(Yes, this is one of my areas of geekery. :))

I've heard that theory too.

As well, sex was connected to ancient fertility rituals, so in some ways it was seen as idolatry. There's the whole biblical metaphor of Israel being a "whore" for worshipping other gods, plus a desire to avoid doing anything that resembled older Canaanite practices.

[bea]

And the craziest part (to me) is that this was a guest post from an unmarried stay at home daughter.

:angry-banghead:

I mean, seriously, this personal-ad-designed-as-blog (stayathomedaughter.com), written by a girl in her early twenties who has never lived on her own, had a relationship with a man, or even entered into a fundie courtship, is writing about how to get women to want to submit to men.

HOW THE HELL WOULD SHE KNOW? SHE'S NEVER DEALT WITH A MAN OTHER THAN HER DADDY!

[lilith]

ITA that a lot of these fundies have a big-time predilection for BDSM. What these folks are advocating is what we call "24/7 total power exchange." The sad thing is that I suspect that in a lot of cases it's one-sided - i.e., it's what the dude wants, and he's wrapped it up in religious language.

I am the submissive partner in a 24/7 TPE relationship. My submission and his domination are not limited to the bedroom and sexual matters, although the sexuality of our dynamic is a powerful motive for both of us. Powerful, but not the only motive for us to choose this lifestyle. I really believe that my submissiveness is an integral part of my self and sexuality that I was born with. When I tried to supress it I was very unhappy and ended up in an abusive relationship.

It is, however, something I was born with because I am me, not because I am female. The thought of anyone being forced into a submissive role horrifies me, and even though I have found happiness and fulfillment in this lifestyle I would never push my daughter in that direction or raise her to believe that it is the proper role for women. My partner values the fact that I, a modern, educated woman, have CHOSEN to relinquish control to him and submit to him so so much. That submission is valued all the more because I have choices, I have options, and I choose to give it to him.

While some fundie couples may get lucky and find that the patriarchal dynamic works for them, I think that far far more are made unhappy by having to try to live in roles that are unnatural or even abhorrent to them. I think that it would be difficult for many of the men too - there is a lot of pressure on the dominant partner in a relationship, being responsible for another person, and also many children in the case of fundies, can be difficult and stressful, and having the ultimate responsibility for the success or failure of the relationship, being blamed and seen as weak if you can't control your wife and kids, is a lot to expect of a young man.

Because fundies are taught that god created all men to be dominant leaders and all women to be submissive followers, there must be am lot of people, men and women, boys and girls, feeling unnatural and "wrong" and feeling intense guilt because they don't fit within those strict roles. Can you imagine being born a submissive male in a household like the Duggars?

While there may be some fundies who are drawn to BDSM and enjoy the way their community facilitates it, I think there are far moe made unhappy by their lack of choices. And even those lucky marriages where both parties have those interests, and the male is dominant and the female submissive, it would have to be cloaked in domestic discipline, because non reproductive sex is seen as sinful, and even though BDSM play can easily lead to reproductive sex, I can't see fundies being comfortable with most BDSM practices just for their own sake - they would feel the need to justify it as enforcing wifely submission.

Sorry, this has turned into a rant. It's something I've thought about mentioning before, but I was a bit shy about "coming out".

[BlondeAgent007]

I have a naturally dominant personality. My current partner is a naturally submissive male. I like to be in control, I feel really uncomfortable being submissive. My partner doesn't have a dominant bone in his body. It has been hard in the past for him to start relationships, because society expects men to have a "macho" persona, and he really isn't that way. He's also emotional, as in doesn't mind sharing his feelings, also a big no-no. He is so much happier now because he can be who he is, and i encourage it. We still very much consider each other equals, he's just happy to let me make most of the decisions. When he does make decisions, I always respect them, because usually its something really important to him. I don't see why we should reverse things or change them when we are both comfortable and happy.

[snuggles911]

.

Everything is about the man. Even if the woman submits, she might not be submitting joyfully enough and make the poor, little man feel depressed. :roll: No matter what a fundie woman does, other fundie women will still bitch at her for not being perfect enough.

As a recovering fundie I can attest that this is true. I still visit some fundie blogs to see what women are thinking/saying and they're always extolling each other to be more submissive. I recently read a comment where a woman was responding to another woman who had posted that she was struggling with submission b/c she has trouble trusting her husband.

The commenter said that she submitted to her husband at all times including meeting all of his sexual requests and that it wasn't scary b/c she knew that even if he hurt her physically or mentally God would protect her and set things right. That sent shivers down my spine.

I'm struggling to understand how women---especially well educated ones---can expressive that type of submissive lifestyle.

[browngrl]

The post referred to in the OP is by Ashley Schnarr. Isn't she the one who just had a broken engagement? Guess that whole submission thing is just not working out all that well for her.

[wild little fox]

Whoa, I didn't realize the "glove cleaner" was poison, I just thought it was a counterpotion.

Perfect example of why interpreting issues of 2,000 years ago does not apply today because we do not have the context of what Paul was saying. I did not know the glove cleaner was poison.

[salex]

And the craziest part (to me) is that this was a guest post from an unmarried stay at home daughter.

:angry-banghead:

I mean, seriously, this personal-ad-designed-as-blog (stayathomedaughter.com), written by a girl in her early twenties who has never lived on her own, had a relationship with a man, or even entered into a fundie courtship, is writing about how to get women to want to submit to men.

HOW THE HELL WOULD SHE KNOW? SHE'S NEVER DEALT WITH A MAN OTHER THAN HER DADDY!

She, and that callow virgin youth of the dirty foot wife are repeating what theyv'e been told-- regurgitating the party line. IT worked as home schooling (think of the abortion fiction that one girl wrote that got a good grade from her mommy) and it works for them They all just go around quoting one another to one another and thinking how brilliant they all are.

[fundiefun]

I checked out her blog for touting fundie beliefs her dresses are racy especially the lace long sleeve on on the main page and a dress that doesn't cover her knees when she's sitting my my what a little hypocrite. I love the entry on how to make being a stay at home daughter look attractive to your daughter and the last tip was find her a husband. With her broken courtship how well did that work out for her.

[miffy]

Crush their spirit by beating them daily.

[pookel]

While Ashley likes to try her hand at many different things, her favorite thing is encouraging women to embrace biblical femininity, and preparing for her dream of being a homemaker and a godly helpmeet.

Translation: Ashley is a dilettante with no real skills who spends her time surfing the internet and mooching off her parents while pretending her laziness is has a biblical basis.