missionaries

[hummingbird61]

Good Housekeeping -

johnandjanel.blogspot.com /2012/05/good-housekeeping.HTML

I never really understood it before when I read would snark about missionaries in Africa, but I do now. :shock:

[Witsec7]

I'm learning that cultural sensitivity is not a requirement to be a missionary. Silly me.

[CrazySister]

I'm learning that cultural sensitivity is not a requirement to be a missionary. Silly me.

This is what pisses me off most about "foreign" missionaries. I've simply met too many who were going there (where ever "there" happened to be) to save everyone without the slightest respect for their culture or current religion or anything else. Just this bull-in-a-china-shop mentality of "I'm from the West and therefore you need to change to MY beliefs."

[Cran]

Always look on the bright side of life:

This way, they will have even less success with their missionary work and spread their crazy not as far.

[Elle]

This is what pisses me off most about "foreign" missionaries. I've simply met too many who were going there (where ever "there" happened to be) to save everyone without the slightest respect for their culture or current religion or anything else. Just this bull-in-a-china-shop mentality of "I'm from the West and therefore you need to change to MY beliefs."

Mythbusters tackled the bull-in-a-china-shop myth and found bulls to be surprisingly careful, even with a bunch of them in a small area and light-weight shelves.

I've complained often about how these morons go overseas and destroy cultures. I posted to Jennie's Facebook wall about how the dresses she's having those women make for her ignores their own culture. She's aiming for those dresses to be sold locally in that slum, which would completely change the way they dress. It's like the book Poisonwood Bible, where the natives were used to being nearly naked and thought nothing of it, but the minister sent to them shamed them into changing their ways.

[Elle]

At least one of those culture-destroying fundies admit that it's the promise of something that they're using to convert people. Of course if you have nothing and are promised health and enough money you'll do what you're told to do since it seems to be working for those telling you what to do. In this case, convert.

At least they do seem to be grateful to have her instead of taking her for granted. Too bad they are trying to convert her rather than learning about her culture.

[mirele]

Uganda...ugh.

Evangelicals have invaded the country and set back the progress Uganda was making in fighting AIDS by spreading abstinence only crap. Uganda had had great success with the ABC formula (abstinence, being safer in your partners, condoms) but the Catholics went in and made condoms look pretty bad while the evangelicals told women they had to give it up for their husbands, no matter what.**

Uganda is also the country where the "Let's Kill All the Gays" bill is rumbling around its Parliament. Of course, American evangelicals are behind that as well...and then these same evangelicals wonder why GLBT people are angry and bitter at the evangelical community. WAKE UP...hell, I'm heterosexual and this is one of the long list of things that ensures I'll never darken the door of a church ever again.

So yeah, Uganda doesn't need any more missionaries. Haven't they already fucked things up enough???????

**backup for the statement:

Although Uganda certainly did succeed in reducing its HIV prevalence drastically from a height of 18 percent in 199222 to 4.1 percent in 2003,23 HIV prevalence in the country has since risen (the HIV prevalence in 2009 was 6.5 percent).24 There are a number of reasons why this may be happening, including fewer people dying of AIDS due to an increase in access to antiretroviral therapy. However, there have been suggestions that a shift away from 'be faithful' or 'partner reduction' aspect of the country's HIV prevention approach to a new 'abstinence only' focus as promoted by PEPFAR could be partly responsible for this increase.25 26

from http://www.avert.org/abc-hiv.htm. Emphasis added.

[fundifugee]

I've complained often about how these morons go overseas and destroy cultures. I posted to Jennie's Facebook wall about how the dresses she's having those women make for her ignores their own culture. She's aiming for those dresses to be sold locally in that slum, which would completely change the way they dress. It's like the book Poisonwood Bible, where the natives were used to being nearly naked and thought nothing of it, but the minister sent to them shamed them into changing their ways.

Really??????!! What a miserable shit she is. Has she no idea that the khangas that Kenyan women wear are the ultimate in versatile economical clothing? Even I switched over to wearing them when I lived in East Africa (although I felt like a poser and got lots of stares, and it took me a while to figure out how to wrap it securely).

You don't need a new wardrobe when you gain weight, loose weight, get pregnant. You can use it as a skirt, dress, bathrobe, bedsheet, headcovering, shade parasol, or babycarrier. It is easily washed and dried (important when you have to handwash everything with as little water as possible because you have to carry it from the well a mile away).

I mean, most folks did have some version of western clothes for going visiting or to church, but they were saved for special occasions. Jennie, way to use slum-dwellers to produce luxury goods...how are you going to create demand for those dresses when people are so poor? Tell them that in order to be Christian they have to dress like you? You suck.

[fundifugee]

And as far as John and Janel -- wah, suffering for the Lord in a savage country, with a gardener, maid, and security guard!!! Living in a compound (not just a house)!!! Lovely, noble housekeeper who rescued two abandoned babies at the dump but now has to leave them with her grandmother in order to work for you, because your kids are so much more important than hers!

I hope, as happened with some of my friends, that their kids see their parents crap for what it really is with the help of their "native" servants.

(Oh, and to my mother who criticized me for complaining about how hard parenting is and for having post partum depression: suck it. You had a MAID when you raised us as missionary kids. You weren't suffering for the Lord, you were living an easy life thanks to slave wages offered to poor women.)

[fundifugee]

ALSO, (sorry, y'all), Janel - oh my, isn't it wonderful that you are doing your missionary duty by 'discipling' your maid and teaching her about being a Christian? Because a woman who rescues and adopts two babies from a dump, who takes care of your kids in a loving, capable way in spite of the fact that you spend on one meal what you pay her in a week, who comes to your house to clean up your messes while keeping her own scrupulously clean even though she does not have running water, appliances, etc because your life is SO BUSY what with all you KIDS and your ENTERTAINING -- yup, that woman clearly knows nothing about being a Christian. Good thing you're there to teach her.

[ottergirl]

Couple comments in response to some of the items here.

In regards to Kangas: Kangas are beautiful. However, my impression has been that while they are regularly worn by women on the coast (except that there more and more they are being replaced by the full black Muslim outfit whose name I unfortunately do not know) they aren't seen that often in the Nairobi area (which is where Kibera is located). Well, some women do still use them to hold babies, but more often than not I see something else holding the baby on their backs. I do think they may be more common in some other countries, such as Tanzania.

I stress I am not an expert on Kenya, but the women I see going in and out of Kibera are generally dressed in second-hand clothes from Western countries -- usually a t-shirt with a skirt. Oftentimes, the t-shirt is actually a promotional t-shirt given away by a company. I *think* there may actually be rules against or limiting importing of second-hand clothing because it is hurting the local textile industry. The women I do see wearing traditional clothing are generally well-to-do, which leads me to suspect that these are more expensive -- too expensive for the less-well-to-do person. (And interestingly enough -- business suits are extremely popular for well-to-do women here. I'd say the majority of women wear skirts or dresses. Just well-to-do younger women might be seen in pants -- but not generally for work. Of course, please take all I say understanding that I've never actually thought about these matters before and have certainly not made any kind of scientific study. There may well be others on here with more experience who can correct me.

So, not in any way meant to endorse Jennie's sewing business -- I don't have a clear picture in my mind of how the business works to make any comment -- but the pictures of dresses I saw actually seem to fit more with a traditional dress style (though of course they aren't precisely), than the way most of the women in Kibera (and even outside) currently dress.

In regards to living in a compound: It is very normal to live in a compound of some sort, unless you live in a village or in a slum. And if you don't, well, you generally have a big wall around your place. Security is a huge issue. This connects with something that was mentioned earlier in the other thread. If women are paid high amounts then it will be known they have money and they *will* become the target of thieves. A related challenge is that if you start earning enough money to get you out of a slum you need to be able to earn enough to also provide security for yourself. These are not reasons not to pay someone well -- just the reality of consequences that come with doing so. Coming back to the the original idea here -- when we were visiting in the U.S., one of my children asked me why there were so many houses around and I realized that that looked odd to my children's eyes. Houses are generally behind walls here.

In regards to having a a housemaid or gardener or other worker: When we first arrived, it was explained to us that we would be considered very selfish if we didn't hire people, because we have the money to do so (or so everyone will think) and we are denying people job opportunities if we don't do so.

So many issues are so complicated when it comes to deciding what is right.

[Cran]

Nobody thinks her selfish for hiring a maid or what domestics she can afford, but her being so insensitive about other cultures: Her way is the right way No matter if dress, religion or other customs.

[fakepigtails73]

Their housekeeper, Oliver, is a gorgeous woman.

I wonder if the father feels defrauded sometimes??

ETA: although the mother bugs me, they don't seem ATI or quiverfull...There is a pic of her wearing jeans.

[holothuroidea]

She seems like a really wonderful person. The housekeeper, I mean.

About the missionaries? Well, I won't go there. D:

[doggie]

the only thing the catholic church finally got right. they finally realized they don't have to destroy the culture to convert the people. only took them 2000 years to work that one out.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

At least the Good Housekeeping mom does include:

Allow [Oliver, the maid] opportunities to teach the kids how to do things, including her teaching them Luganda--communicating the clear concept that she's an authority figure worthy of respect and that they have things to learn from her.

It would probably be instructive for her kids to visit Oliver's house, if they're ever invited over there, just to see how it is. It would also be interesting for Mom to have language lessons TOO...

That said, I remember hearing a program about problematic aspects of "volunteering vacations" on the CBC radio a while back. These are plenty popular among college-age and gap year people in the West, going somewhere to have a world trip (and to be frank - party) while volunteering - so they don't feel that they're just having a vacation.

While this CAN be a good thing if local people are completely in control, there are plenty of companies making money hand over fist on these things, and too often offering "help" that isn't really needed, because everyone wants to do the "sexy jobs" and teach kids English (why? and there's no continuity) when what's needed is usually far more mundane and just plain physical laboring. The program said that the main thing to keep in mind doing these things is that the attitude should always be that sure, you'll help, to defray some of your costs, doing whatever labor THEY need, but the bottom line is that YOU are there to learn from THEM (the language, etc). They are doing YOU a favor, hosting you, even while you're there to do some work to "pay your way" a bit.

I found it interesting, anyway.

[DarkAnts]

I found this post interesting

What can parents do to avoid raising their children to be "Pharisees"? What can they do--practically as well as in theory--that can help them raise kids who love and obey God from deep within a humble heart, rather than trusting in their own performance and "goodness", like a whitewashed tomb? Conversely, if you have ideas about what they shouldn't do, that helps, too.

[She Who Laughs]

Sounds like it has a lot of benefits for Oliver if you read the previous post. She is considered to be staff with the mission agency therefore she not only gets paid but she also gets two meals a day, medical benefits, and educational benefits. Perhaps the job of being their housekeeper allows her more benefits than she would get if she worked elsewhere in the community.

[Elle]

Really??????!! What a miserable shit she is. Has she no idea that the khangas that Kenyan women wear are the ultimate in versatile economical clothing? Even I switched over to wearing them when I lived in East Africa (although I felt like a poser and got lots of stares, and it took me a while to figure out how to wrap it securely).

You don't need a new wardrobe when you gain weight, loose weight, get pregnant. You can use it as a skirt, dress, bathrobe, bedsheet, headcovering, shade parasol, or babycarrier. It is easily washed and dried (important when you have to handwash everything with as little water as possible because you have to carry it from the well a mile away).

I mean, most folks did have some version of western clothes for going visiting or to church, but they were saved for special occasions. Jennie, way to use slum-dwellers to produce luxury goods...how are you going to create demand for those dresses when people are so poor? Tell them that in order to be Christian they have to dress like you? You suck.

I have a particular friend from India who told me how much saris make sense over our American clothing, for the same reasons! No need to buy new clothes for changing weight or pregnant, and you can wrap in so many ways and get so many looks! She taught me a couple wrapping methods, and I felt so beautiful. She told me how a man can unwrap it like unwrapping a gift. Saris are beautiful, sensual, and economical. I think kangas would be exactly the same in these regards.

I'd love to wear saris here, but am afraid someone will say I'm misappropriating Indian culture to suit my own western desires, even though Indians I know have said they like seeing westerners wearings saris (the bindis have a spiritual significance). The clothing is just clothing, like us seeing jeans on someone in Japan - it's not a big deal just because America had it first. But I've been conditioned to fear participating in anything, even dress, that can be claimed by any other culture.

Jennie is indeed planning to get those women into her dresses, and she said it's born out of a love for femininity and beauty. BULL SHIT. Those women were feminine and beautiful in their own way without having to change it to the European way. By the standards of their culture, they were dressed femininely, and beautiful for it. She's ruining that. Here's another loophole in her pay - if the women are paid per piece (as she's indicated at times) and are paid the retail price per dress, then how would there be money left to buy more fabric to make more dresses if they are sold locally like she's planning?

[Elle]

ALSO, (sorry, y'all), Janel - oh my, isn't it wonderful that you are doing your missionary duty by 'discipling' your maid and teaching her about being a Christian? Because a woman who rescues and adopts two babies from a dump, who takes care of your kids in a loving, capable way in spite of the fact that you spend on one meal what you pay her in a week, who comes to your house to clean up your messes while keeping her own scrupulously clean even though she does not have running water, appliances, etc because your life is SO BUSY what with all you KIDS and your ENTERTAINING -- yup, that woman clearly knows nothing about being a Christian. Good thing you're there to teach her.

I think Janel needs to discipline her own kids not to tromp through the house with muddy boots instead of relying on the kids liking the maid enough to not want to do it for her sake. The one with the most discipline in that house is Oliver. Oliver (or is it Oiver,- I saw it with and without an L multiple times) could teach that whole family a think of two, but as an ungodly African heathen, she's the one needing changing.... Ugh.

[Elle]

Couple comments in response to some of the items here.

In regards to Kangas: Kangas are beautiful. However, my impression has been that while they are regularly worn by women on the coast (except that there more and more they are being replaced by the full black Muslim outfit whose name I unfortunately do not know) they aren't seen that often in the Nairobi area (which is where Kibera is located). Well, some women do still use them to hold babies, but more often than not I see something else holding the baby on their backs. I do think they may be more common in some other countries, such as Tanzania.

I stress I am not an expert on Kenya, but the women I see going in and out of Kibera are generally dressed in second-hand clothes from Western countries -- usually a t-shirt with a skirt. Oftentimes, the t-shirt is actually a promotional t-shirt given away by a company. I *think* there may actually be rules against or limiting importing of second-hand clothing because it is hurting the local textile industry. The women I do see wearing traditional clothing are generally well-to-do, which leads me to suspect that these are more expensive -- too expensive for the less-well-to-do person. (And interestingly enough -- business suits are extremely popular for well-to-do women here. I'd say the majority of women wear skirts or dresses. Just well-to-do younger women might be seen in pants -- but not generally for work. Of course, please take all I say understanding that I've never actually thought about these matters before and have certainly not made any kind of scientific study. There may well be others on here with more experience who can correct me.

So, not in any way meant to endorse Jennie's sewing business -- I don't have a clear picture in my mind of how the business works to make any comment -- but the pictures of dresses I saw actually seem to fit more with a traditional dress style (though of course they aren't precisely), than the way most of the women in Kibera (and even outside) currently dress.

You are seeing the result of westernization. Their culture, including clothing, didn't become more western on its own. Missionaries moving in and pressuring them to adopt primarily American customs and manners of dress play a very heavy role.

When you've got a poor population who can either buy inexpensive kangas or get free second-hand clothes and use the money they would have spent to buy food, when you have little, you're going to buy the food and take the free clothes. Those who are wealthier don't have to make this sort of decision and can buy both their cultural clothing items as well as food. So their traditional and cultural fabric will start to look like something for the rich.

Jennie's earlier pictures from the area of Kiberia she's in showed women wrapped in kangas. The women weren't dressed in western-cut dresses. The more recent photos show some of the women starting to wear dresses made from the patterns of hers that the women will be sewing into dresses for her ready-to-wear line

[SeaSaltCaramel]

I just wanted to put in my two cents about how mission work can be done in a helpful, respectful way.

First of all, I have a huge heart for missions, particularly Kenya, as well as helping at-risk women and children world-wide. I went to Kenya last summer and absolutely fell in love with the people there. Their hearts and attitudes showed nothing but kindness and generosity despite the lack of modern conveniences. I had the honor of teaching a fourth-grade class their math and English/grammar classes for the day. They were so smart and ready to learn. Most impressive was their respect for their teachers/elders and the fact that they are tri-lingual. Some others from our group helped build floors for two of the large school rooms. We were there to help them with whatever they needed. I felt like I came home with much, much more than I "gave" them. I made a few friends with the children there. One boy stayed by my side the whole time. He told me I reminded him of his mother. The genuine love he showed me made my heart stretch farther than I thought possible. That is just one of many stories I have.

The organization we take our trips through is called the 410 Bridge. It's from the verse in 1 Peter 4:10 that says that everyone should use the gifts God gave them to serve those in need. The bridge model pictures that it's not just a one-way street (us showing up and acting like their saviors). It pictures that while we help them with resources and equipment they may not have or are able to obtain (i.e. building a well) they, in return show us what it truly means to love and serve without a hidden agenda; to be grateful and hopeful when they survive on very little. What 410Bridge does is go into a community, set up a leadership counsel of people from that community, and then ask them what the community's most important needs are. We are very respectful and honoring of their culture and practices. We make every attempts not to be "ugly Americans." One of the most important things that 410 emphasizes is "no unhealthy giving." This means that we don't give anything (not even a stick of gum) to anyone in the community that hasn't been okayed by the leadership counsel. The idea is that we are not creating a sense of entitlement in them or a group of people just looking for handouts. For example, if someone asks for money for college, I would say, "I can't give that to you now, but if you ask the leadership counsel and they say yes, I'd love to help you. That way, the leadership counsel can say, "that's a great idea," or "no, that person is just looking for a handout," because they know the people and needs of their community.

One specific need that our church was able to help with was to purchase a stove for our community's school to make lunch. These children may or may not get a meal at home. For many children, this is where they get their one meal for the day. Again, I feel honored that my church was able to donate money that bought a stove this community needed and wanted.

In 3 weeks I'm going back to this community with fellow medical professionals. We are the first medical team to come to this specific community, and our purpose for this trip is to find out what the top 10 medical needs are. That way, when future medical teams come, they can bring the specific meds and supplies that are most in need.

Sorry this is so long. I just wanted to let you all know of the efforts that are helping rather than hurting ;)

[She Who Laughs]

The westernization of their clothing would have happened whether missionaries had ever set foot in Africa (and other countries). The majority of western clothing makes its way to Africa and other third world countries because of the enormous amounts of aid that organizations send to those countries. Much of that foreign aid is sent by organizations that are humanitarian in nature and may not have any religious background at all.

[ottergirl]

Elle, I don't mind standing corrected. I am curious now -- I'd like to see those pictures of the Nairobi (Kibera) women in kangas. I've tried searching her pattern Facebook page, her personal page, and her blog, and don't seem to be looking in the right places. All I came up with was a picture most definitely not in Nairobi of women dressed in kangas and walking along a country road that was part of all advertising of the kangas (looked like a stock picture) and a picture of a woman with Jennie wearing the kanga skirt she was teaching them to make. All the pictures I from Kibera saw showed women dressed in the way I normally see them (except for one women in a traditional outfit but it wasn't a kanga). I'd appreciate directions to find them.

Related to that, I've wanted to do try and find out more about Jennie. In particular, I'd love to see where she talks about women not working or going to college. I thought FJ would have some good threads on it, but I am having a terrible time with the Search function. Most of the time it tells me it can't be used at the moment and to try back later. When I finally get it to work, it takes me to the first page of results for Jennie, which are all from the last thread about her so I've seen them already. When I try to go to page two, I get the message that search isn't working again. When it finally does work, it starts me all over again -- so I can't get past page one. Is anyone else having trouble with the search, or is this just a problem on my end?

Also, does the search feature no longer work on the old board? It keeps telling me there are no results for Chancey which I wouldn't have thought would be the case.

I'll be going past Kibera today on my way into town so I'll be looking to see what people wear.

[holothuroidea]

I want a kanga now. Actually I want like 10 kangas.

Sarees, too, but I've always wanted those. I haven't gotten any because I don't want to be culturally insensitive (we live in an area with a large Indian population). But now that I think about it, if I moved into a foriegn culture and a couple people started dressing like I did I wouldn't be offended, I'd be like "Hey, they like my clothes! Cool!"

Their dress technology is way superior to ours, anyway. If we're so "advanced" why didn't we come up with this stuff? It's brilliant.

ETA: I'd probably offend tons of white people if I started wearing Sarees and Kangas. Are race relations only this messed up in the U.S.?