Jinger's 18th birthday... the countdown!

[tabitha2]

Lots of things could be.But if the brain is not encouraged to creativity,curiosity or deeper thoughts very young and live in an enviroment where any one is interested in teaching theme selves,let alone you, any hidden talents or genius just evaporates.That's what I think happened.

[JenniferJuniper]

Lots of things could be.But if the brain is not encouraged to creativity,curiosity or deeper thoughts very young and live in an enviroment where any one is interested in teaching theme selves,let alone you, any hidden talents or genius just evaporates.That's what I think happened.

While I agree they are at a disadvantage as intellectual curiosity has been harshly discouraged, I don't agree all hope is lost for every one of them. Some of them seem bright enough and with so many of them, odds are a few will self actualize later in life. I don't predict they'll be talented or brilliant, but I'd guess a few will break away and have normal lives and careers and raise their children differently.

[meow139]

I'm inclined to agree about Jill. She's clearly much less a material girl than Jessa and Jinger and her sweet nature seems to make her more open towards other people. And being more open towards others could evolve into her become more open to their different ideas.

It would be quite easy for Jill to be set free. If she could converse with someone about life outside of the fundie world, she may be easily impressioned upon. If she were to learn of this, she could go to college, break free of the slave life, and maybe really become a nurse.

I find Amy to be the best bet for Jinger, Jessa, Jill and Joy (IMO the most likely to leave) escape and survival in the real world. But I find this unlikely because she does not seem like she would be as daring as to help free them. But if she could... :-?

[FemaleScientist]

It's hard to say about Amy... She wouldn't dare do it right now with TLC there. She seems all about her image. Maybe when the show ends? Who knows.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think fundies like the Duggars might actually worry more about the kind girls with "servants' hearts" more than the stronger-willed ones for exactly that reason. The more she accepts and listens to people with different viewpoints or from different walks of life, the greater the odds she could start questioning the stark black and white world her parents have required her to live in. Not saying it's likely to happen, but I wouldn't rule out Jill eventually becoming the most independent of the girls, as counter-intuitive as that might seem.

Amy is all about Amy. Period. I like her about as much as I do Smuggar, which is not very much.

[annalena]

I don't know from what point on you qualify as "genius", but Hannie seems very, very smart.

I wouldn't count on Amy at all. Susanna, if anything.

[lilwriter85]

I don't know from what point on you qualify as "genius", but Hannie seems very, very smart.

I wouldn't count on Amy at all. Susanna, if anything.

Susanna can probably counted on more than Amy. I think Amy and Deanna would never helped anyone escape because if they did it could possibly hurt their relationships with Boob and Mary.

[tabitha2]

If Anna ever wants a close® relationship with Anna or nieces and nephews,She won't help them either.If she pisses Josh enough off he could stop her seeing or communicating with her Anna,if he has not already.

[annalena]

If Anna ever wants a close® relationship with Anna or nieces and nephews,She won't help them either.If she pisses Josh enough off he could stop her seeing or communicating with her Anna,if he has not already.

Huh?

That's too many Anna's.

[tabitha2]

What I am saying is Anna is her sister while the Duggar girls are close acquaintances at best-Why piss your big sisters husband off to where he might veto any contact with his wife or children?

[Mythicwings]

Lots of things could be.But if the brain is not encouraged to creativity,curiosity or deeper thoughts very young and live in an enviroment where any one is interested in teaching theme selves,let alone you, any hidden talents or genius just evaporates.That's what I think happened.

It isn't what happens. Look at the tons of people who have managed to leave that world. It does take a long long time to heal and let your mind work more freely - but the ones who leave do so because their brains aren't gone and they want to develop them or use them, or use their creative talents freely, or explore options. It doesn't evaporate it just goes into very confused hiding. I grew up like them and have gotten a bunch of education and degrees since then. But what it takes is the willingness to leave, and in a closed-family system, that takes a lot of guts, more than brains. They need both.

[Lily]

Sadly, I don't have a whole lot of hope that Jinger will leave any more, not while she's young at least. She's too close with Jessa and to a lesser degree, Jana and Jill. Jinger and Jessa almost seem to be two parts of the same identity the last year or so.

My highest hopes are for Josiah, Joy, and possibly (far down the road) for some of the younger girls. Josiah and Joy not only seem to have the most brains of any of that middle group, they both seem exceptionally unhappy in a way that even sarcastic Jinger never has. They have other things going for them too, in terms of escape potential: they're close to each other age wise and it seems emotionally (despite Dim Bulb and Jichelle's recent attempts to separate them, think they know what's going on?) if we look back they seem very close; they're probably the last of the Duggars to get a somewhat decent education, before Jichelle completely checked out, so they'll at least have basic foundation. Going it all alone or leaving a sibling you're exceptionally close to will be next to impossible, which is why my hope for any of the J'Slaves is waning, but Josiah and Joy have a shot at it if they both continue to foster discontent at the ATI life and share rebellious ideas and are able to support each other.

Of the oldest 4 girls, I would actually say that (as things stand right now) Jill is the most likely escapee. She and Jana aren't as close to each other as Jessa and Jinger, and I could see her becoming discontent despite her sweet personality. That's the thing about people-pleasers: people take advantage of them (Jichelle and Dim Bulb heap and even more unfair amount of work on Jill) and they take it and take it and take it, until they finally can't deal with it any more and usually a blow up of some kind is involved. I doubt she'll be married off by then, she's too valuable as a sistermommy, they'll let Jessa and Jinger marry, probably Jana too, but Jill's too helpful and compliant right now. They'll eventually just work her to her breaking point and she'll have had enough and leave.

[Mythicwings]

That would be wonderful if Joy and josiah could support each other. Do you think they are getting bad treatment beyond being separated? I get the idea that JB comes down harder on Josiah because he senses a difference with him. And look at what Josiah's main chore is - cleaning all 9 bathrooms every week! :o It just seems like a punishment. And Joy rarely smiles, even in pictures. Part of me feels like the parents are too uninvolved at a personal level by this point, with this many kids, to notice or take the time to find out why someone is unhappy. Then part of me feels like they notice but only to punish or make more brutal attempt at indoctrination. If those two kids can support each other that would be great, but it would have to be where JB and Michelle don't notice, or any informers.

[annalena]

I think Susanna is free-spirited enough to support the girls.

Also important: She's not completely cut off from her family, she lives with her sister (I think) so she has a backup support system, which probably makes her strong enough to help others.

[theologygeek]

I'm sure the Duggars limit ALL calls, emails and texts made from electronic devices that they pay for. When the Duggar kids were supposedly texting in the hospital when Jason was injured, who's to know they weren't playing games? Who can they text without supervision, even JD/Jana/Jill? Hell, Smuggar couldn't talk with Anna without a chaperone until their wedding night and the Bates kid has every text inspected by the parents.

I watched a YouTube video the other day where Michelle said that her children don't know who The Beatles are. She then went on to say "We like classical music." They probably limit music genres too.

[Trynn]

I watched a YouTube video the other day where Michelle said that her children don't know who The Beatles are. She then went on to say "We like classical music." They probably limit music genres too.

But I thought classical music was also of the devil?

[JenniferJuniper]

I watched a YouTube video the other day where Michelle said that her children don't know who The Beatles are. She then went on to say "We like classical music." They probably limit music genres too.

I think that was from the Q&A episode which was the last show of this past season.

I'm pretty sure Michelle said something along the lines of "my kids probably don't know about the Beatles".

I thought the qualifier "probably" in relation to the kids knowing about the Beatles was interesting. Could she be referencing Josh who is now no longer under their constant watchful eye? Is he staying up nights (while Anna tends to the baby) watching YouTube videos and eating pork rinds? Would that explain his paunch and gray pallor?

For what it's worth, my teens really don't know much about the Beatles either. Although for some ungodly reason, they are quite familiar with the Monkees catalogue.

[Mythicwings]

For what it's worth, my teens really don't know much about the Beatles either. Although for some ungodly reason, they are quite familiar with the Monkees catalogue.

:lol:

They would recognize random Beatle songs, though, just from living in the 20th-21st century. Your kids I mean - not the Duggar kids.

[Guest Anonymous]

That would be wonderful if Joy and josiah could support each other. Do you think they are getting bad treatment beyond being separated? I get the idea that JB comes down harder on Josiah because he senses a difference with him. And look at what Josiah's main chore is - cleaning all 9 bathrooms every week! :o It just seems like a punishment. And Joy rarely smiles, even in pictures. Part of me feels like the parents are too uninvolved at a personal level by this point, with this many kids, to notice or take the time to find out why someone is unhappy. Then part of me feels like they notice but only to punish or make more brutal attempt at indoctrination. If those two kids can support each other that would be great, but it would have to be where JB and Michelle don't notice, or any informers.

I can't help feeling alarmed for Josiah's sake, especially in light of his reaction to Termite Queen's announcement last week. That, and Josh's declaration that he'll be the next one to marry. I personally think he's metrosexual rather than gay. But, if his parents think he's gay, they might force him into marriage in the belief that a family of his own would "neutralize" teh gay.

Free Josiah!

[Mythicwings]

Yes - Josiah and Joy are the ones probably in dire need of being freed!

[Lostie]

I can't help feeling alarmed for Josiah's sake, especially in light of his reaction to Termite Queen's announcement last week. That, and Josh's declaration that he'll be the next one to marry. I personally think he's metrosexual rather than gay. But, if his parents think he's gay, they might force him into marriage in the belief that a family of his own would "neutralize" teh gay.

Free Josiah!

When did Josh say that? I missed it and it does seem strange considering JD should logically be next in line to marry.

[JenniferJuniper]

When did Josh say that? I missed it and it does seem strange considering JD should logically be next in line to marry.

In the last episode of the season. It was a Q&A and the question was "who will be the next Duggar to marry?" Josh was almost certainly being snarky, and he added some additional information about how the ladies love Josiah and he loves them. Some say he lurks at sites like this and that might explain his smirky little comment about poor Josiah.

[Guest Anonymous]

When did Josh say that? I missed it and it does seem strange considering JD should logically be next in line to marry.

Josh said it at some point during the Q/A section after the last episode broadcast, and he sounded amused, in a malicious way. He said the ladies love Josiah and he loves them. And I DO think that Jim Bob would be bastard enough to force Josiah down the aisle. I hope he, and the others, can somehow escape this clusterfuckery.

[Constance Vigilance]

I find it really inappropriate to be speculating about the sexual orientation of minors who are known to live in a repressive cult environment, on a board where we know MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILY lurk. It is fucked up. Who knows how much harder it will make their lives if Joshie mentions to his dad that lots of people are starting to speculate about X or Y.

We know there are indoctrination camps, we know they follow the Pearls. I wish people would exercise some self-restraint and think about the reality of the kids they are discussing.

[Avalondaughter]

I see your point CV, but FJ is from from the only place where people have speculated about Josiah's sexual orientation. Someone wrote a blog within the last year describing kid-by-kid and all of the reasons she felt sorry for them. Her lament for Josiah was that it was impossible to be gay in that family. I would imagine it gets talked about in TWOP and in commentaries on internet stories about the Duggars. That doesn't make it right by any means, but it's something the Josiah will have to learn to handle whether he's gay or not.