Jinger's 18th birthday... the countdown!

[Lostie]

I see your point CV, but FJ is from from the only place where people have speculated about Josiah's sexual orientation. Someone wrote a blog within the last year describing kid-by-kid and all of the reasons she felt sorry for them. Her lament for Josiah was that it was impossible to be gay in that family. I would imagine it gets talked about in TWOP and in commentaries on internet stories about the Duggars. That doesn't make it right by any means, but it's something the Josiah will have to learn to handle whether he's gay or not.

Do you know where that is? I've been trying to find it again for a while.

[Constance Vigilance]

I know that it's talked about in other places, but FJerites are usually pretty good about remembering the reality behind the things they/we enjoy snarking on. Like, when a blog moves beyond 'crazy fundie' and into 'neglect', FJers will call CPS because we know that is a real child, and we are concerned about their welfare.

So it's weird that on this one, people are perfectly content to talk about this knowing that it could be harming the kids. Who knows where else Duggar friends and family read discussion about themselves, but we know they read here, and that FJ is known among fundies in general. Normally FJers have higher standards on this sort of thing, and it's weird that they/we are falling down on this.

And it is inappropriate, no matter who else is doing it. That doesn't make it right.

[Mythicwings]

I find it really inappropriate to be speculating about the sexual orientation of minors who are known to live in a repressive cult environment, on a board where we know MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILY lurk. It is fucked up. Who knows how much harder it will make their lives if Joshie mentions to his dad that lots of people are starting to speculate about X or Y.

We know there are indoctrination camps, we know they follow the Pearls. I wish people would exercise some self-restraint and think about the reality of the kids they are discussing.

I very much agree, but at this point it's more complicated than just not talking about what's been said. When I first came here, it was obvious that people talked about it caringly, but at the same time I worried about doing it in case it freaked a child out that he was being talked about so openly. And especially if Josh IS lurking. On the one hand I find it icky to talk about.

[JenniferJuniper]

I know that it's talked about in other places, but FJerites are usually pretty good about remembering the reality behind the things they/we enjoy snarking on. Like, when a blog moves beyond 'crazy fundie' and into 'neglect', FJers will call CPS because we know that is a real child, and we are concerned about their welfare.

So it's weird that on this one, people are perfectly content to talk about this knowing that it could be harming the kids. Who knows where else Duggar friends and family read discussion about themselves, but we know they read here, and that FJ is known among fundies in general. Normally FJers have higher standards on this sort of thing, and it's weird that they/we are falling down on this.

And it is inappropriate, no matter who else is doing it. That doesn't make it right.

Agreed. Not to mention the fact that there is no way to determine a kid's eventual sexuality based on demeanor or personality. My almost 13 year old was - and for the most part remains - the most tomboyish girl I've ever known. And she's absolutely boy crazy. So it's as pointless as it is cruel.

With that said, however, I think the train on this subject has long left the station and Josh is well aware or what some have - inappropriately in my opinion -speculated about Josiah. Hence the smirky, snarky comments about him and the ladies.

[Constance Vigilance]

Yes, but the only people who have the internet password are Jana and Michelle (and Josh at his own house). So how are any of the other children stumbling onto this support? They aren't, for the next few years at least. So the potential for good is currently non-existent, but the potential for bad is extensive.

I think it's fine to make this excuse and that excuse for why it totally is okay, but ultimately it isn't okay and I think we should do better.

[Mythicwings]

Is it feasable to have a rule that a child's potential sexuality isn't discussed here? I mean - as long as it IS discussed, it means we kind of have the obligation to discuss it positively, if that makes sense. But if how would FJ keep people from talking about it? NOT talking about it would be ideal, but I don't know how a rule like that could be enforced, without a mod constantly looking a deleting posts containing anything like that. I would love not to discuss it, but if it is being discussed, how do we not follow up on it with continuing positive stuff? Personally, I find it very hard and confusing, and at this point, like the above poster said, the train has left the station and I'm not sure banning discussion of it would be helpful. But seriously - this subject does disturb me a lot, I just don't see the obvious answer as being to not discuss it. I don't know :( :( :(

But hey if there were a rule against it, I would happily not bring it up again.

ETA: I just read your last post. That is a really good point - I didn't know he couldn't access internet like that - I mean I knew it was restricted but...man this sucks :(

hmmm...I still feel very confused, but given that information, maybe I'll stop discussing it, and delete any posts I can find that I wrote.

[Constance Vigilance]

Is it feasable to have a rule that a child's potential sexuality isn't discussed here? I mean - as long as it IS discussed, it means we kind of have the obligation to discuss it positively, if that makes sense. But if how would FJ keep people from talking about it? NOT talking about it would be ideal, but I don't know how a rule like that could be enforced, without a mod constantly looking a deleting posts containing anything like that. I would love not to discuss it, but if it is being discussed, how do we not follow up on it with continuing positive stuff? Personally, I find it very hard and confusing, and at this point, like the above poster said, the train has left the station and I'm not sure banning discussion of it would be helpful. But seriously - this subject does disturb me a lot, I just don't see the obvious answer as being to not discuss it. I don't know :( :( :(

But hey if there were a rule against it, I would happily not bring it up again.

ETA: I just read your last post. That is a really good point - I didn't know he couldn't access internet like that - I mean I knew it was restricted but...man this sucks :(

hmmm...I still feel very confused, but given that information, maybe I'll stop discussing it, and delete any posts I can find that I wrote.

I don't think there should be a 'rule' about it as such, or mods deleting posts or anything like that. I just think people should consider what they are saying, and whether it's an okay thing to do. I really don't think it is for the reasons I've stated, and I wanted to say so.

It is my hope that people would exercise self-restraint on this issue, in the interest of the kids they're discussing. I don't think they should be forced to; that's not what we do here.

ETA: I know that if someone had suggested to my parents during my teenage years that I might be gay it would have made living with them (already abusive) expontentially harder. A decade later I still get an instinctive terror reaction at the thought! I suppose I'm seeing this through that lens -- I see one kid or another being discussed and my reaction is just fear for them, because they are stuck in that environment for at least the next few years, and their parents control everything about their lives.

[Mythicwings]

Yeah, I guess I was just thinking that if anyone talks about it, most everyone (including me ) feels they should respond to make sure it is obvious we are supportive. But I think you made a really good point and I'll probably not talk about it anymore.

[Moony]

Yes, but the only people who have the internet password are Jana and Michelle (and Josh at his own house).

Whoa, they have password keepers?

[Constance Vigilance]

It's a repressive cult Moony, of course they have password keepers!

I *cough* bought the Duggars' first book (before I realised what was actually going on; now I wouldn't give them a penny) and they mention there that only Jana and Michelle have the password. Maybe Jill/Jessa have it now too for educating the younger ones? And no one is allowed on the internet unaccompanied.

[Trynn]

Regardless of whether or not it is safe to discuss the sexual identity of the Duggars (which it clearly might not be) I still don't think we should be speculating about it. When I was in middle school, I was not attracted to guys. Everyone then started speculating about whether or not I was a lesbian (and not kindly, I might add) and it made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable, because

1. I wasn't attracted to girls either, but MORE Importantly

2. My sexuality is MINE to define. Not anyone else's.

I'm not sure if anyone else feels this way, or if it's just me, but knowing that people were forming their own conclusions without even having talked to me (or ignoring what I said when they did bother) was...well, it felt very invasive. I just don't think it's right to speculate about, unless you are the kid's own parent/guardian/close friend, and are seeking out advice on what to do/how to handle it should their offspring turn out to be gay.

And no one here is really in a position to help the Duggar children right now. the younger ones, at least.

[devilsadvocate]

Bottom line, you can't tell if someone is gay or not by their mannerisms. There are effeminate hetero guys and macho gay guys. Josiah may legitimately be hetero, and it's not fair to him to assume that we know what his innermost thoughts are.

It is definitely valid to think that, statistically, there probably is at least one gay Duggar (especially since research has shown that the more older brothers a guy has the more likely he is to be gay) but we can't be sure who it is.

[Charliemae]

The way I see it, it's less about our speculation and more about what his family may think. And I would guess the D's have a pretty narrow view; manly =straight=more arrows in your quiver. I think it will be revealing to see how they treat a son who isn't as traditionally masculine as the other boys. It's the same with Joyanna, she's never come off as traditionally feminine either. As they both get older JB and J'chells views on things might become more obvious. I think, as others said, it also makes the Duo the most likely to runaway once the younger of the two (?) hits 18.

[theologygeek]

I find it really inappropriate to be speculating about the sexual orientation of minors who are known to live in a repressive cult environment, on a board where we know MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILY lurk. It is fucked up. Who knows how much harder it will make their lives if Joshie mentions to his dad that lots of people are starting to speculate about X or Y.

We know there are indoctrination camps, we know they follow the Pearls. I wish people would exercise some self-restraint and think about the reality of the kids they are discussing.

That's what happens to people on tv. They get discussed. It's called celebrity gossip, and it comes with the job. If people don't want their kids to be analyzed, then they shouldn't put them on tv.

[theologygeek]

I don't think there should be a 'rule' about it as such, or mods deleting posts or anything like that. I just think people should consider what they are saying, and whether it's an okay thing to do. I really don't think it is for the reasons I've stated, and I wanted to say so.

It is my hope that people would exercise self-restraint on this issue, in the interest of the kids they're discussing. I don't think they should be forced to; that's not what we do here.

ETA: I know that if someone had suggested to my parents during my teenage years that I might be gay it would have made living with them (already abusive) expontentially harder. A decade later I still get an instinctive terror reaction at the thought! I suppose I'm seeing this through that lens -- I see one kid or another being discussed and my reaction is just fear for them, because they are stuck in that environment for at least the next few years, and their parents control everything about their lives.

You're not a tv celebrity. If you're on tv, you're going to get analyzed. It's silly to tell people not to talk about celebrities.

[ubfree]

37 days til Miss Jinger Nichole Duggar turns 18. Think the Duggars are keeping a sharp eye on her? Is she being forced to work more so the busier she is the less escape plans she'll be able to make? Or is she being let up on a little so that she'll think she has it easy and will stay? AND do you think with Baby 20 on the way theres more of a chance of a mass breakout?

Or do we have to wait til Joy's 18th birthday to see anyone leave?

Personally, I think she's getting tired of it all. Her mannerisms show it. However I don't think she hates her family, she just wants to be Jinger.

While Jana is very pretty, Jinger is also. So for her 18th birthday, I would like to take her on a real date, not one of these courtship things that ol' Josh had to do. A real date, treat her like a lady and also to blow the minds of the other Duggars, cook a meal for her. Wonder how ol' Dad would like it if a guy cooked dinner for his daughter.

Of course i'm betting that ol' Dad wouldn't let me within 500 yards of Jana or Jinger no matter how nice I am.

[Trynn]

That's what happens to people on tv. They get discussed. It's called celebrity gossip, and it comes with the job. If people don't want their kids to be analyzed, then they shouldn't put them on tv.

Those kids did not ask to be put on TV. The parents put them there. Therefore I don't think it's fair, at least, to the kids under 18 who obviously have no choice in the matter.

[Daenerys]

Yes, but the only people who have the internet password are Jana and Michelle (and Josh at his own house). So how are any of the other children stumbling onto this support? They aren't, for the next few years at least. So the potential for good is currently non-existent, but the potential for bad is extensive.

I think it's fine to make this excuse and that excuse for why it totally is okay, but ultimately it isn't okay and I think we should do better.

It's actually Jill who has the passwords, not Jana. This was stated in a written interview about how Michelle 'protects' the children from unwanted influences.

It's that which makes me think Jill is either a.Totally drinking the kool-aid or b.Such a good liar she should be a spy in the CIA.

[formergothardite]

Bottom line, you can't tell if someone is gay or not by their mannerisms. There are effeminate hetero guys and macho gay guys. Josiah may legitimately be hetero, and it's not fair to him to assume that we know what his innermost thoughts are.

It is definitely valid to think that, statistically, there probably is at least one gay Duggar (especially since research has shown that the more older brothers a guy has the more likely he is to be gay) but we can't be sure who it is.

How many devilsadvocates do we have around here?! :lol: At this one seems more normal than the other one.

And I agree with this post.

[gustava]

It's actually Jill who has the passwords, not Jana. This was stated in a written interview about how Michelle 'protects' the children from unwanted influences.

It's that which makes me think Jill is either a.Totally drinking the kool-aid or b.Such a good liar she should be a spy in the CIA.

I wonder whether the password issue is out of date. It came up in connection with the computers used for "school" but now that at least the older children appear to have Iphones, I think they have more access to the internet than the Mullet has acknowledged.

[Daenerys]

I wonder whether the password issue is out of date. It came up in connection with the computers used for "school" but now that at least the older children appear to have Iphones, I think they have more access to the internet than the Mullet has acknowledged.

Most people seem to think they have the internet disabled on their phones. I would be inclined to agree.

[lilwriter85]

Most people seem to think they have the internet disabled on their phones. I would be inclined to agree.

I think they might have the internet disabled on the iphones too.

[devilsadvocate]

How many devilsadvocates do we have around here?! :lol: At this one seems more normal than the other one.

And I agree with this post.

I think I was the first since I was able to get the name without any numbers. Then everyone else realized what a great name it is. :D

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I personally think he's metrosexual rather than gay. But, if his parents think he's gay, they might force him into marriage in the belief that a family of his own would "neutralize" teh gay.

Or worse--send him to some gay "recovery" program.......Of course generations of gay men did hide their "light" under the "bushel" of marriage......Who knows with "Siaha, I think what is obvious is the poor kid is dead miserable in his current life, as is Joy Anna. They're the first to hit the teen years with money, travel, and non-ATI folks around constantly.....so JB/M may not know what to do with them. They may be the first to REALLY rebel.

[gustava]

I think they might have the internet disabled on the iphones too.

Not to be contrary, but curious: What's the point of an Iphone if the internet is disabled? Isn't that how they would send photos to each other? I have only a plain ole dumb phone.