Josh & Anna 58: Losing JB's Money All the Way to the Supreme Court

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, Ashley Ocean said:

I guess the 15 minutes a week of one on one with her Mom wasn't enough to give her the strength of character to make good choices in life! 

I have a visceral reaction when reminded of this. Ugh. It’s so sad. And so freakin obvious/common sense. What these mothers override in the name of religion…

[Themanda Duggar]

2 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I agree she is all in on IBLP and it’s hard to watch. To me it’s a reflection of someone never exposed to healthy love and nurturing.

I think it’s partly a reflection of what you’ve mentioned, additionally I think it’s partly a reflection of her horribly limited education, but I also think Anna has a pretty huge martyr complex, and that she truly gets off on being seen as someone suffering for her strong beliefs by sticking it out in what has been publicly exposed as a miserable marriage.  She sees valor and righteousness in standing by Josh no matter what, including how much pain he’s caused her and her children. It makes her feel like a super extra worthy Christian, and she seems totally willing to sacrifice her children on the altar of her self righteousness just to keep up these appearances.  Anna is a vile human being.

[noseybutt]

16 minutes ago, Themanda Duggar said:

I think it’s partly a reflection of what you’ve mentioned, additionally I think it’s partly a reflection of her horribly limited education, but I also think Anna has a pretty huge martyr complex, and that she truly gets off on being seen as someone suffering for her strong beliefs by sticking it out in what has been publicly exposed as a miserable marriage.  She sees valor and righteousness in standing by Josh no matter what, including how much pain he’s caused her and her children. It makes her feel like a super extra worthy Christian, and she seems totally willing to sacrifice her children on the altar of her self righteousness just to keep up these appearances.  Anna is a vile human being.

Yeah, the attention she gets is horrific and yet she twists it into a positive.

[Giraffe]

13 hours ago, marmalade said:

I believe a,condition of supervision is that supervisors are predetermined. Anna, obviously.

 

15 minutes ago, Themanda Duggar said:

Anna is a vile human being.

This is why I was enraged Anna was allowed to be his babysitter during his trial. I sure as hell hope she's not allowed to after his release! It's absolutely incomprehensible to me that she was (and potentially will be again) his safety monitor. 

[Giraffe]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:02 PM, SassyPants said:

Since Josh was arrested for criminal activity in AR, how closely was JB monitoring Josh? I think JB’s unhealthy parenting style was (and is) a huge contributor to Josh’s developing his dubious proclivities. 

Pulling this over from the Josiah thread. I'm doubt JB checked on Josh after he and Anna married. Josh says he's been reformed? Praise Jesus! He hasn't reformed? Well shame on Anna for not being the perfect enough wife. JB's a horrible human and a controlling, domineering individual but I'm not convinced he continued to micromanage Josh after he moved out. 

[marmalade]

I dunno. If JB owned that shack lot, then he might have been policing the Felon to a certain extent. But Anna certainly got the reports from Covenant Eyes. Not that those were of any use in the end. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

But how would that work? Anna gets the reports and it’s her job to stop Josh from using porn/child porn but also she is to dutifully serve him and he has the final say? Either she has authority or she doesn’t.

[marmalade]

3 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

But how would that work? Anna gets the reports and it’s her job to stop Josh from using porn/child porn but also she is to dutifully serve him and he has the final say? Either she has authority or she doesn’t.

I don't see it working in their marriage. I'm sure Anna was bulldozed after busting the Felon. Because there had to be a reason for him to even THINK of setting up the Linux partition, and getting busted would do it.

[GreenBeans]

52 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

But how would that work? Anna gets the reports and it’s her job to stop Josh from using porn/child porn but also she is to dutifully serve him and he has the final say? Either she has authority or she doesn’t.

She didn’t get those reports, because he set up a separate drive.

I do wonder how many men who are monitored through Covenant Eyes and similar software just get another phone. Obviously not to view CSA, but legal stuff (not even necessarily porn, just anything they may not want their wives to know about). It would be the easiest way to circumvent the “accountability” thing without too much technical knowledge. Depending on their job, they could just say it’s a phone from work if their wife ever noticed.

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

But how would that work? Anna gets the reports and it’s her job to stop Josh from using porn/child porn but also she is to dutifully serve him and he has the final say? Either she has authority or she doesn’t.

That's exactly the point. She doesn't have authority to take any action against him. It's just a way for her to feel like she's holding him accountable (and for them to seem like they're "above reproach" in their fundy circle). And now he's sitting in jail for proving how useless software like that is. 

[Cam]

6 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Pulling this over from the Josiah thread. I'm doubt JB checked on Josh after he and Anna married. Josh says he's been reformed? Praise Jesus! He hasn't reformed? Well shame on Anna for not being the perfect enough wife. JB's a horrible human and a controlling, domineering individual but I'm not convinced he continued to micromanage Josh after he moved out. 

JB and Michelle were happy when Josh married Anna because now he was her problem. Once married, if Josh got in trouble it was due to his wife’s shortcomings, not due to his upbringing. Yeah, they were happy to foist blame to Anna. 

I’m not sure JB would have thought Josh was viewing csam online. He may have thought Josh might look at adult porn, but figured that was Anna’s responsibility to monitor. JB probably figured Josh was out of the way at the car lot and out of the public eye and that’s why JB set him up in business there. No need to really monitor him much as it was low key, nothing too exciting for the media to latch on to. Until….

 

Edited April 23 by Cam

[gustava]

7 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I do wonder how many men who are monitored through Covenant Eyes and similar software just get another phone.

House Speaker Mike Johnson might know.  His son monitors him via Covenant Eyes.  Mikey says he's a Christian, so why would a good Christian need a porn monitor?

Edited April 23 by gustava
add info

[Four is Enough]

11 hours ago, marmalade said:

. But Anna certainly got the reports from Covenant Eyes. Not that those were of any use in the end. 

Did she though? did she even turn the computer on? My guess is that Submissive Wife believed in his innocence and never checked.

[Meggo]

1 hour ago, gustava said:

House Speaker Mike Johnson might know.  His son monitors him via Covenant Eyes.  Mikey says he's a Christian, so why would a good Christian need a porn monitor?

Also - is this a government issued device? or one he uses to conduct actual business? because I'm not sure that I like the idea of a third party monitoring system - let alone his KID being able to access it. Ick factor aside (because ewwww gross) - like government business. And how up in arms the GOP was about Hillary's cell phone but this is totally okay. 

(and it reminds me of my dad when we first got internet at home. He kept setting up all these pron blockers all over the place because he was CONVINCED pron would just find him. But it got so he couldn't actually use his computer well because of all of that cluttering up things). 

[Howl]

Besides all the other crazy, porn is seeping into Twitter.  I've come across nude women and some actual porn on Twitter,  scrolling through some political thread or regular Twitter stuff.  

Mike Johnson and his son monitoring each other is just Fundie performative bullshit, BUT it's easy to inadvertently stumble across porn.

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

Did she though? did she even turn the computer on? My guess is that Submissive Wife believed in his innocence and never checked.

That's always been my assumption. When I was still fundy I dated someone who, like me, was in church leadership. Once we started dating I would be so anxious about bringing ministry-related things up to him in public because of my anxiety surrounding things like "how will this look due to us dating? Will it seem like I'm challenging his authority?" It was quite the mindf*! So yes, I'd be shocked if Anna actually did anything with any emails she received. 

[Antimony]

A little aside, but one thing I've wondered about since Josh's case is, well, the muck behind Covenant Eyes.

CE takes screenshots of any activity that it deems "suspicious"* and then blurs them (in a way they claim cannot be unblurred, but I'm doubtful). In any case, it appears they do this to protect the "monitoring allies" from seeing all the porn their husbands are watching or whatever, but. 

But. This means that CE has to put that screenshot in its database, blur (and then encrypt it, they claim), and store it somewhere for the report for the accountability ally user. Which is...okay. But I've always wondered, does this mean there is actually a database that includes CSAM sitting on the CE servers? 

They seem to allude to this being a possibility in their End User Agreement.

Quote

11. Agreement to comply with laws and restrictions on harmful transmissions. You, as the User, agree that you will comply with all applicable laws regarding computing device use, both now and in the future as laws are generated which may affect use of the computing device. You also agree not to attempt to pursue in any way any transmission of information to Covenant Eyes servers or other equipment which could be harmful to its database or other functions. The transmission of any material in violation of any state or United States regulations is expressly prohibited, and will result in immediate termination of use.

I don't think we'll ever see this kind of thing in court (in any capacity) but it has struck me as strange since Josh's case that this private company is distributing (blurred) screenshots of unknown material and is also designed specifically to store all these images into their own databases and how do you even...legally manage such a database and...? And how do they know that content is illegal? Are they monitoring it to just terminate it and...? Not report? Do they have any (legal) duty to report? I don't think so. Do they have any ability to report this? (They will give over your info when requests by a court, but that's standard.)

It's such a strange app to me and its always seemed like you could get a big can of worms about it when it comes to cases like Josh. 

*Tumblr, a few years ago, used a similar early AI to detect "adult" content but ended up banning a lot of pictures of sand dunes because if you are a robot, the curves of a sand dune look roughly the same as those of a pale-to-tan naked lady because...that's a robot and it doesn't know. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I doubt JB would have expected Josh to be looking at CSAM.  Like many of us, he probably believed the violation of his sisters was a crime of opportunity, not true preference.  I didn't fall out of my chair in shock or anything when it came out, but I hadn't assumed he was a pedophile based on his actions when he was a teenager.

And Anna could only get the reports if there was something to report - he may have set up a partition immediately since he was always into computers and she never got any notifications anything was amiss.

[Alisamer]

13 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

But how would that work? Anna gets the reports and it’s her job to stop Josh from using porn/child porn but also she is to dutifully serve him and he has the final say? Either she has authority or she doesn’t.

I think that Anna got the covenant eyes reports, and they were likely all pretty benign, as Josh knew enough to partition the drive and get around the monitoring.

Also, this is Anna here. The one who ran around wondering where the "vibrator" was, right? When they couldn't find the baby bouncer? And seemed to have not one clue. So even if there was something questionable in Josh's reports, with it blurred out for her would she have recognized it? Josh probably knew exactly how far he could push on the regular web that would manage to either skate by the monitoring or be easy to mislead a naive Anna about. And once he had the dark web partition set up, that was no longer an issue anyway. Anything questionable pops up on the report, Josh just says "Oh, it was a strange ad that popped up one day" or "one of the employees must have looked at that" or "oh, how funny! That was a photo of a supercar and the software must have thought it was a person!"

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:45 PM, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I doubt JB would have expected Josh to be looking at CSAM.  Like many of us, he probably believed the violation of his sisters was a crime of opportunity, not true preference.  

One sister could be a crime of opportunity, but 4 sisters and a babysitter presumably multiple times each is a preference. 

[waltraute]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

One sister could be a crime of opportunity, but 4 sisters and a babysitter presumably multiple times each is a preference. 

And considering the age of the youngest sister at the time? Yeah, that's not a crime of opportunity.

[tanba]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:41 PM, Antimony said:

A little aside, but one thing I've wondered about since Josh's case is, well, the muck behind Covenant Eyes.

CE takes screenshots of any activity that it deems "suspicious"* and then blurs them (in a way they claim cannot be unblurred, but I'm doubtful). In any case, it appears they do this to protect the "monitoring allies" from seeing all the porn their husbands are watching or whatever, but. 

But. This means that CE has to put that screenshot in its database, blur (and then encrypt it, they claim), and store it somewhere for the report for the accountability ally user. Which is...okay. But I've always wondered, does this mean there is actually a database that includes CSAM sitting on the CE servers? 

They seem to allude to this being a possibility in their End User Agreement.

I don't think we'll ever see this kind of thing in court (in any capacity) but it has struck me as strange since Josh's case that this private company is distributing (blurred) screenshots of unknown material and is also designed specifically to store all these images into their own databases and how do you even...legally manage such a database and...? And how do they know that content is illegal? Are they monitoring it to just terminate it and...? Not report? Do they have any (legal) duty to report? I don't think so. Do they have any ability to report this? (They will give over your info when requests by a court, but that's standard.)

It's such a strange app to me and its always seemed like you could get a big can of worms about it when it comes to cases like Josh. 

*Tumblr, a few years ago, used a similar early AI to detect "adult" content but ended up banning a lot of pictures of sand dunes because if you are a robot, the curves of a sand dune look roughly the same as those of a pale-to-tan naked lady because...that's a robot and it doesn't know. 

If I was implementing this, I would be blurring before putting in the database. Now I’m also very doubtful that it can’t be unblurred, at least enough to reconstruct recognizable things, but blurring is also likely to save space, so even from a database and systems design perspective, I would be surprised if they saved the original images somewhere permanently, also due to legal liability. 

[Antimony]

52 minutes ago, tanba said:

If I was implementing this, I would be blurring before putting in the database. Now I’m also very doubtful that it can’t be unblurred, at least enough to reconstruct recognizable things, but blurring is also likely to save space, so even from a database and systems design perspective, I would be surprised if they saved the original images somewhere permanently, also due to legal liability. 

There was one case with a pedophile (given the name "Mr Swirl" in the news) who had posted a manipulated image of his own face online and it took like...one guy with Photoshop who was like, "Uh, yea, that can be undone."

Some reports suggest it took a little too long to find this one guy and perhaps the confidence of said pedophile made them thing the manipulation algorithm was more than it was but it was really...literally like the spiral twist function.

I am mostly doubtful CE owns or bought any sort of interesting blurring algorithm. If we can pick past the diffraction of light with STORM...well. It just struck me as such an outlandish claim.