William and Catherine 4

[VGL]

10 hours ago, viii said:

I thought there was always four Counsellors of State and people were losing their minds before the Queen died because both Harry and Andrew was part of that foursome. 

The people that can act as Counsellors of State are the first four adults in the line of succession and the spouse of the monarch  (William, Harry, Andrew, Beatrice and Camilla)

Parliament added Anne and Edward so Harry, Andrew and Beatrice would not be called upon to serve as COS as they are not working royals. 

The King has to issue Letters Patent to specify who is going to do what he needs them to do on his behalf.

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, VGL said:

The people that can act as Counsellors of State are the first four adults in the line of succession and the spouse of the monarch  (William, Harry, Andrew, Beatrice and Camilla)

Parliament added Anne and Edward so Harry, Andrew and Beatrice would not be called upon to serve as COS as they are not working royals. 

The King has to issue Letters Patent to specify who is going to do what he needs them to do on his behalf.

Harry cannot act as a CoS as long as he is not living in the UK. It is suspected that ending the lease on Frogmore Cottage was done to prevent him from claiming he could. 
 

Two CoS are required to represent the Monarch. 

[SoSoNosy]

Beatrice is a Counsellor of State.

[louisa05]

29 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

Beatrice is a Counsellor of State.

It is, by law, the spouse of the monarch and the first four people in the line of succession over the age of 21 (except the direct heir--1st in line-- is added at 18). So the first four adults besides Camilla are: William, Harry, Andrew, Beatrice. The monarch can request that Parliament add additional Counsellors of State at any time. Charles had Anne and Edward added to ensure that Andrew will not have to be called on and because Harry is not eligible when living in the U.S. So in practice, the people who currently can act will be Camilla, William, Beatrice, Anne and Edward. My guess would be that Charles would choose William with Anne or Edward should the need arise. If both of his siblings are not available (ill or abroad), then Camilla before Beatrice. 

[Alisamer]

58 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Harry cannot act as a CoS as long as he is not living in the UK. It is suspected that ending the lease on Frogmore Cottage was done to prevent him from claiming he could. 
 

Two CoS are required to represent the Monarch. 

My understanding is that, interestingly, the residency rule disqualifies Harry from being an option for CoS, but NOT to be a Regent should that need to happen (unlikely) as the residency rule for that is based on origin, not current residency. 

37 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

Beatrice is a Counsellor of State.

With the new legislation she's like the alternate I think - is she technically a "working royal?"  The four current ones that can be called up are William, Camilla, Anne, and Edward. 

I assume since the Monarch has to be able to do the letters patent to give the CoS the responsibilities, he'd similarly be able to work through making some changes to legislation if needed if, say, it was for a trip that Camilla was attending but Anne and Edward were also unavailable. And once George is over 18 he'll move into place as an option, though I could see them choosing not to call on him for that so young unless necessary.

I've mostly been learning about Tudor monarchs and such lately but it's interesting to see how the modern system works as well.

[louisa05]

12 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

My understanding is that, interestingly, the residency rule disqualifies Harry from being an option for CoS, but NOT to be a Regent should that need to happen (unlikely) as the residency rule for that is based on origin, not current residency. 

With the new legislation she's like the alternate I think - is she technically a "working royal?"  The four current ones that can be called up are William, Camilla, Anne, and Edward. 

I assume since the Monarch has to be able to do the letters patent to give the CoS the responsibilities, he'd similarly be able to work through making some changes to legislation if needed if, say, it was for a trip that Camilla was attending but Anne and Edward were also unavailable. And once George is over 18 he'll move into place as an option, though I could see them choosing not to call on him for that so young unless necessary.

I've mostly been learning about Tudor monarchs and such lately but it's interesting to see how the modern system works as well.

I doubt that Charles’s health will require a regency. That seems to be a common discussion right now. But having seen a parent through to the end of stage 4 cancer, I doubt it will be required. 

[VGL]

George only becomes a COS at 18 if he is the immediate heir aka William is king.

[Mama Mia]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:20 AM, louisa05 said:

I doubt that Charles’s health will require a regency. That seems to be a common discussion right now. But having seen a parent through to the end of stage 4 cancer, I doubt it will be required. 

I’m sorry you went through that, it’s such a very rough way to go, and so hard on you as the child. I think it depends on the type of treatment and response to it if a Regent would be desirable. My Dad’s stage 4 cancer treatment involved high dose steroids - which turned his already intense personality into a completely overbearing, irrational, delusional and  mean ass*** who caused an immense amount of financial and emotional wreckage within his extremely limited family sphere. If had any sort of actual wealth or power I can’t imagine what he would of done. He became extremely grandiose - which if you were a King ..well, you’d certainly have a head start in that area.  I know the King is a figurehead — but still…I hope for their sakes he is open /there are procedures in place to being very closely monitored with others officially taking over if needed.  
 

I think though the posts referring to Harry being a Regent refer to if Charles passes and then William also died or abdicated or was seriously incapacitated before George is an adult. So extremely unlikely to ever be an issue. 

As others have said, it is very odd and probably dysfunctional that so many institutions have people in their 70’s and 80’s in such demanding roles. With a monarchy I don’t see how you’d get around it since the entire point is that it’s top job by birth order and bloodline —regardless of general health or energy levels or personality type or aptitude or skills ——what a weird, weird, weird way to live. 

 

[prayawaythefundie]

4 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I think though the posts referring to Harry being a Regent refer to if Charles passes and then William also died or abdicated or was seriously incapacitated before George is an adult. So extremely unlikely to ever be an issue. 

I think William would have to die before Charles for this to be an issue because if Kate is Queen Consort she can be Queen Regent until George is of age. Even less likely to happen.

Edited February 18 by prayawaythefundie

[just_ordinary]

On 2/17/2024 at 3:25 PM, VGL said:

George only becomes a COS at 18 if he is the immediate heir aka William is king.

Really? I thought the five set positions are spouse +the next 4 people in the LOS that are of age. That makes George eligible with his 18th birthday as he has precedence over his uncle, PA and Beatrice no matter if his father is king already or not.

Edited February 18 by just_ordinary

[tabitha2]

As the Law stands now the Regent  for George  be Harry. If Harry was not able it Would be Andrew as the next Royal in LoS. That has never been been modified per the Regency Acts  as of yet even that I am aware even  in light of recent events.  
 

Catherine would still be the boys guardian And If she was not able the current Regent would be. 

Edited February 18 by tabitha2

[Mama Mia]

4 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Really? I thought the five set positions are spouse +the next 4 people in the LOS that are of age. That makes George eligible with his 18th birthday as he has precedence over his uncle, PA and Beatrice no matter if his father is king already or not.

I think 21 is the age to be considered eligible to be a Counselor of State. Except in the case of the direct heir, in which case it’s 18. So, if I’m understanding right - if Charles is still King George wouldn’t be a COS until he is 21, but if William is King, George would become a COS at 18. With Charlotte and Louis added as they turned 21. At that point I guess you’d have just the immediate Wales family + Harry? 

[VGL]

Yes, 21 is the age to be a COS unless you are the immediate heir.

Charles became a COS at 18, William became a COS at 21

Catherine can become Regent for George.   Prince Philip, not Princess Margaret, would have been regent for Charles.

 

[tabitha2]

Unless they have modified it or plan to Catherine will not be Regent

 

Per the act:

(1)If a Regency becomes necessary under this Act, the Regent shall be that person who, excluding any persons disqualified under this section, is next in the line of succession to the Crown.

(2)A person shall be disqualified from becoming or being Regent, if he is not a British subject of full age and domiciled in some part of the United Kingdom, or is a person who would, under section two of the M1Act of Settlement, be incapable of inheriting, possessing, and enjoying the Crown [F2, or is a person disqualified from succeeding to the Crown by virtue of section 3(3) of the Succession to the Crown Act 2013]; and section three of the Act of Settlement shall apply in the case of a Regent as it applies in the case of a Sovereign.

(3)If any person who would at the commencement of a Regency have become Regent but for the fact that he was not then of full age becomes of full age during the Regency, he shall, if he is not otherwise disqualified under this section, thereupon become Regent instead of the person who has theretofore been Regent.

(4)If the Regent dies or becomes disqualified under this section, that person shall become Regent in his stead who would have become Regent if the events necessitating the Regency had occurred immediately after the death or disqualification.

(5)Section two of this Act shall apply in relation to a Regent with the substitution for references to the Sovereign of references to the Regent, and for the words “those functions shall be performed in the name and on behalf of the Sovereign by a Regent” of the words “that person shall be Regent who would have become Regent if the Regent had died.”

Edited February 18 by tabitha2

[VGL]

They probably wouldn't modify it unless William became King before George turned 18

I can't see British Parliament being happy with Harry as Regent.  

The Regency Act of 1953 made Prince Philip the regent for Charles.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/2-3/1/introduction

 

[tabitha2]

That was specifically for Phillip Because he was throughly royal himself and seen as head of the family. They would have to amend again for Catherine.

[VGL]

47 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

That was specifically for Phillip Because he was throughly royal himself and seen as head of the family. They would have to amend again for Catherine.

I think they would do an ammendment but it would likely be Edward or Anne.   British parliament would probably prefer Catherine to Harry if they were the only 2 options.

[Mama Mia]

9 hours ago, VGL said:

I think they would do an ammendment but it would likely be Edward or Anne.   British parliament would probably prefer Catherine to Harry if they were the only 2 options.

It sounds like, as it stands, it would be Andrew who would be regent for George if Charles and William both died before he was 18, unless Harry was living in the UK.  I don’t think Andrew would be  disqualified for any covered reason? I’m betting (hoping!) people would be pushing Harry to move back in that scenario, if they hadn’t preemptively changed things to allow Edward - or Beatrice?  

Edited February 19 by Mama Mia

[Alisamer]

6 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

It sounds like, as it stands, it would be Andrew who would be regent for George if Charles and William both died before he was 18, unless Harry was living in the UK.  I don’t think Andrew would be  disqualified for any covered reason? I’m betting (hoping!) people would be pushing Harry to move back in that scenario, if they hadn’t preemptively changed things to allow Edward - or Beatrice?  

My understanding is counsellor of state requires you to live in the UK. Regency just requires you to have originally been born in the UK. So technically if William died in a freak accident followed by Charles, Harry could potentially hustle back to town and be regent. 

I suspect if something happened to William prior to Charles passing there'd be some quick legislating going on to set things in place for that. Probably along the lines of naming Edward and Anne as the potential regents, just to avoid the Harry and Andrew problems. Or, alternatively, Harry could use the situation to patch things up and move back home, knowing that there's a possibility he might be the one in power at some point sooner than later.

Of course all of this is just highly unlikely what if scenarios and would have to happen in the next 7-8 years to happen at all. Most likely, Charles will live a good while yet, then William will live a full life, then George... and on and on until some disruption happens somewhere. 

 

[just_ordinary]

I am surprised it says in (2)you are excluded if you are …not a British subject of full age and domiciled in the UK. I guess that rules H out if he wouldn’t move back. And quite honestly I don’t see that, even if George were to be king under 18. His own children will be firmly rooted in the US and in school/college. I don’t think he should uproot them to be regent for a couple of years. Or even move to the UK alone. His responsibility lies with his own family unit first. The RF would have to find a way to make it work without him and PA. And I think they have more than enough people to name in a new regency act. And while I sincerely hope that the Sussexes and the rest of the RF find together as a family I don’t think there is a chance Wiliam will take him back professionally. Which might be healthier for them as brothers anyway. 

[TN-peach]

Prince William did not attend the memorial service for his godfather today.  The Palace sources said for personal reasons but said that Princess of Wales is doing well but it is still a bit worrying.  It could just be the kids brought home one of those illnesses that go around the school periodically.  Colds, flus, stomach flus, etc.  Kids bring all kinds of fun germs home and then share them.  

[viii]

William pulling out last minute meant that Andrew was the most senior BRF family member to attend and was first in line. Blech. Sure hope William's personal reason is a damn good one. 

[Loveday]

52 minutes ago, viii said:

William pulling out last minute meant that Andrew was the most senior BRF family member to attend and was first in line. Blech. Sure hope William's personal reason is a damn good one. 

From the CNN article on the subject: "Queen Camilla is leading the family for the gathering in honor of the last Greek monarch at St. George’s Chapel."

[viii]

He led the family into the chapel 🤷‍♀️

[Loveday]

2 minutes ago, viii said:

He led the family into the chapel 🤷‍♀️

Much as we all despise Andrew, he's still going to show up at family functions, of which this is one, so I'm never surprised to see him at them. But Queen Camilla, representing the King her husband, is chief family member in attendance in this situation, regardless of who walked in ahead of whom.