Harry & Meghan 17: St Meghan's Hagiography

[rosamundi]

6 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

My gut says  Charles  naturally assumed Harry knew or at least would realize  as he matured that William as heir would get treated differently, get more attention, protection Etc and Harry would deal with it in an adult way, support his brother because that’s what brothers do and all. 

Harry grew up watching family members walk behind each other in public. Watching people get different levels of deference depending on rank , sex, if they were with their spouse or not, speaking when spoken to and so on so why would he think he and Bro would be on the same level? 
 

 

 

 

 

I wonder how much Diana's early death played in this? I think if she was still around, W&H would see her more as the flawed human being she was (we're all flawed, we all make mistakes), whereas now it's very difficult to say "yeah, your mum gave you duff advice/brought you up to believe something that just isn't, won't and can't be true, and you need to deal with that" when the mum in question is Saint Diana, The People's Princess.

[tabitha2]

6 hours ago, viii said:

If Charles was naive enough to believe that Harry would be the Anne to William, then that foolishness is on him. 

I mean simply  to expect your son be an adult and live in reality and be of some  support to his only sibling is outrageous!  How dare! How could Charles be So Foolish? 
 

 

[treehugger]

I mean, at this point Harry’s decisions are Harry’s alone. It’s no different than our fundie kids growing up and having families. At some point you can’t blame the parents anymore. As an adult, especially one Harry’s age, his choices are his alone. He seems like a particularly dense human to me, but he is still an adult.
 

And Meghan is not stupid. I personally find her self-absorbed but I don’t have to like her. Doesn’t mean I need to think she’s dumb. 

[prayawaythefundie]

I think there is rarely only one reason for someone‘s choice of spouse but there sure are contributing factors. With Kate it‘s the stable family William wanted, while Meghan was the ticket out for Harry. I‘ve come to believe that Harry wanted out long before he met Meghan and I think they planned their exit prior to their wedding but it didn‘t go as they expected and that‘s when all the drama unfolded. Harry hadn‘t planned to speak to Oprah or publish Spare. It just was so much harder to leave than he had expected and his reaction was spite.

While Diana‘s death may have been what made the difference for Harry, William would have wanted the wife from the stable family because of his parents miserable marriage and ugly divorce alone.

[Four is Enough]

I don't understand why Harry couldn't have been William's right hand man.. not as a co-monarch, of course, but as a source of support and input. 

Anne, after all, has been a stalwart source of support for first her mother, and now Charles. The Princess Royal, after all.

[tabitha2]

IMO Because Harry was spoiled and indulged  esp after his mother was killed and let the public/ press hype about him go to his head.He didn’t have and still doesn’t have the inner resources  or character or proper guidance to rise above that noise . Usually People like that don’t see why they can’t have it all all the time when they demand it Whether it’s throwing a Diva tantrum about a tiara or wanting his father to foot his bills.  

[viii]

Because as we've seen, Harry has a very different personality than Anne. Anne thrives on the monarchy and fully believes in it, and Harry hasn't for a long time, before he ever met Meghan. He's made so many comments over the years about wanting out that @prayawaythefundie is correct - Meghan was simply his ticket out of here. He made it clear over the years he's wanted to walk away for a long time and she was just the first woman that was willing to walk with him. 

I think it's hard to support something you don't really believe in. 

[tabitha2]

Oh He believes in it enough to milk his name his family and their resources whenever it suits him though:)  When the government wanted to send him to tropical Islands and Africa where could get the press glory he was Eager to serve!1! For Queen and Country! But Eastern Europe and mid size British  villages?  Nah, The Monarchy is not what he wants. 

[treehugger]

I just don’t think Harry is a very deep character.  The monarchy is great when it is all play and no work and no press. I truly think it’s the expectations and responsibility that he wasn’t attracted to. 
 

I really think if he didn’t approve of or believe in the monarchy and all its perks he and Meghan would stop using the titles of Duke and Duchess and they would have refused the titles of Prince and Princess for their children. The fact that they didn’t, that they actively use those titles in their day to day even though they mean nothing in the US tells me they are full of shit when it comes to wanting to leave. They didn’t, and no one will be able to convince me otherwise until they stop using their titles for fame and fortune. 

[Jackie3]

3 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I really think if he didn’t approve of or believe in the monarchy and all its perks he and Meghan would stop using the titles of Duke and Duchess and they would have refused the titles of Prince and Princess for their children. The fact that they didn’t, that they actively use those titles in their day to day even though they mean nothing in the US tells me they are full of shit when it comes to wanting to leave. They didn’t, and no one will be able to convince me otherwise until they stop using their titles for fame and fortune. 

Well, if you read his book, he says there's a place for the monarchy in this world. So I guess he believes in it. I don't really agree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion.

He has clearly stated he left for the safety of his wife and children. I can see that, given the recent incarceration of two men who thought little Archie should be "put down." They weren't the only two crazies out there. 

When you have threats to your wife and children's lives, you realize how meaningless titles are. Who cares if she was Duchess, if a crazy shot at her at a walkabout? I hope they monetize those titles like crazy, since they'll need security for the rest of their lives. Plenty of other royals have done so, there's just a double standard for those two.

[viii]

I don't think the title use really falls on Harry, personally. I see that more Meghan's desire because she is clearly ambitious and has sought to be A-list for years. Marrying Harry was the best thing she ever did for her career, because she wasn't that impressive of an actress. She was never going to get into the doors she craved without Harry. I think Harry would be content to fuck off to California (as long as he still got paid) and lived a comfortable life with his kids. I think it was likely Meghan's choice to use the prince and princess title for the children, and given that Harry often just goes around introducing himself as Harry, and Meghan goes around as Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, I think it's easier to determine which one really cares about the titles. 

[treehugger]

@viii fair enough. That makes sense. Sometimes I do wonder how Harry actually feels about everything that has happened. I actually agree with you that he would have been very happy living a comfortable quiet life.  And I actually do think he would possibly be ok giving up his titles. That’s kind of big thing to disagree about in a marriage though, which does give me pause to wonder how he actually feels about everything. 

Edited January 8 by treehugger

[tabitha2]

Several years ago I would have said if MM  Sets  her career expectations more reasonably and goes for smaller less glamorous but steady coming roles in film, stage and television and gets a good rep she would have a great jumping off point. This is what Sophie Winkleman who is married to a very obscure Royal cousin has done and she gets good reviews. 

But trying to be an A lister with A lister demands and drama without putting in the dues and work is just not on. 
 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Some of the quotes from Spare seemed like Harry was super jealous that William was the heir and he was just the spare so I think if he gave up his titles it wouldn't be just because he wants a quiet life and doesn't believe in the monarchy  but because there's quite a bit of the "keep your damn jack" attitude. 

[louisa05]

17 hours ago, viii said:

I think William married Kate because she gave him what he was lacking - a stable family. She’s very close with her parents, who seem to have a happy marriage, and she’s close to her siblings. 

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Kate, and perhaps he would have married her or someone like her regardless, but I just think he would have probably chosen differently if he had never lost his mother. 

The boys’ family life was unstable long before she died. 

14 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Several years ago I would have said if MM  Sets  her career expectations more reasonably and goes for smaller less glamorous but steady coming roles in film, stage and television and gets a good rep she would have a great jumping off point. This is what Sophie Winkleman who is married to a very obscure Royal cousin has done and she gets good reviews. 

But trying to be an A lister with A lister demands and drama without putting in the dues and work is just not on. 
 

 

Frankly, Meghan is not a very good actress. So she was not going to build a long term career 

[viii]

42 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Some of the quotes from Spare seemed like Harry was super jealous that William was the heir and he was just the spare so I think if he gave up his titles it wouldn't be just because he wants a quiet life and doesn't believe in the monarchy  but because there's quite a bit of the "keep your damn jack" attitude. 

I don't think Harry was jealous that William was the heir and he was the spare because he wanted to rule, but rather because he came second place. A lot of children whose parents "play favourites" will remark on how detrimental it can be, and this is the biggest game of playing favourites that you can. 

41 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The boys’ family life was unstable long before she died. 

Oh, with the divorce it most definitely was, but I still think if Diana had never died, then things would have eventually settled out as the boys got older and Charles/Diana adjusted. Already shortly before she died, they were on better terms. When she died young, any chance for a stable family life disappeared and I think that was one of Kate's main draws for him. 

[DalmatianCat]

18 hours ago, viii said:

I think William married Kate because she gave him what he was lacking - a stable family. She’s very close with her parents, who seem to have a happy marriage, and she’s close to her siblings. 

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Kate, and perhaps he would have married her or someone like her regardless, but I just think he would have probably chosen differently if he had never lost his mother. 

I can understand William’s reasoning with this. He wants his children to have what he didn’t have and Kate seemed like a good, stable choice.
That’s one (of many) odd things that stood out to me about the Harry and Meghan match. In Spare, Harry also seemed to be trying to find a family to fit into just like William did with the Middleton’s. Most of the serious girlfriends he wrote about he also mentioned their families, his relationship with their families, and how much he loved their families. In addition to Chelsy’s family (and maybe Cressida’s? Been awhile since I read it) there was also a family in Africa that he seemed to use as a pseudo family. Writing positively about your exes families isn’t wrong (I’m super nosy so i liked hearing it), but didn’t add much to the story of his life unless he was subconsciously still attracted to the stability those families offered. With that context, it’s surprising to me that Harry ended up picking a spouse who didn’t have a large, close family and he still seems to think nostalgically about his exes families. That’s one thing to say about Harry…he seemed to part on decent terms with most of his girlfriends.

[AmazonGrace]

Well I think it could go either way... sometimes you like someone with a stable family because that's what you're missing... but other times you like someone whose extended family has just as many feuds and break-ups as yours, because that's what you're used to, and it's you and your partner against the world

[Jackie3]

I don't understand why the Middletons are seen as stable and loving. There's a lot of ugliness there.

Carole reportedly did all she could to push Kate in front of William--a purely narcissistic social climbing act if there ever was one.

Carole's brother has ties to drugs and prostitution (by his own admission). He was also arrested for beating up his wife.

Kate's brother has ties to a shady business called Forestry for Life, which was some kind of get rich quick scheme

Kate's friend Emma ran a shady business of her own involving "swinger parties."

The family business, Party Pieces, did not pay its creditors and filed for bankruptcy protection (so it could avoid paying)

The family repeatedly lied about Party Pieces success (ex, saying it paid for the kids' educaiton, when there was a trust fund set up for that long beforehand)

Her family seems to be social climbers and low class, for the most part. 

 

[just_ordinary]

I do think that H is quick to pay lip service against the monarchy. And he has some good points. But in the end he and his wife explicitly stated the would be happy to still carry out jobs for the crown if asked. That was written in their first statement and they had to re-write it several times, whenever BP made it clear that they wouldn’t be allowed to use the Sussex Royal trademark for private business. Or that they couldn’t work for the Crown fully funded and for themselves. If it comes to push H very much likes to be a royal. I would go as far as saying his statements show the same believe and entitlement his relatives carry.

M might see it more from an opportunistic point of view, but H really has missed the point to build a profile outside him being a Prince. He could have doubled down on Veterans/Invictus and Sentebale. Instead they seemed like afterthoughts when they jumped on every new bandwagon. And only when everything else fails he brings them out again. Which is sad, because they look like a good fit and believable.

M might not be Oscar material but she is not untalented. There are many actors with way less talent gracing our screens regularly. I also think she would probably have found a new good gig. Maybe not the big screen but she would probably have found another long term contract- either for a spin off or another series. Her biggest problem was that the writers f*cked up her character. Rachel went from a fierce and pretty cool, don’t less with me type to a whiny, irrational wreck that wasn’t the driving force in her life but became a rather passive and helpless idiot that only made things worse mixed up with some crazy angelic storylines to not make her completely shitty. She was done dirty and if I were M would have tried to find another as stable and well paying gig. But a job is a job and if playing Rachel was the best paying option than it’s only reasonable to stay.

Edited January 10 by just_ordinary

[Four is Enough]

I never saw suits, so I'll have to take your word for it, but the only things I've ever seen Meghan play are one-note, smug characters, not far removed from her real life.

 

[Jackie3]

Great day for Harry today! He is honored for his work as a pilot by getting inducted into the Aviation Hall of Fame.

I'll bet there's a lot of happiness and pride in Montecito now.

 

On 1/10/2024 at 8:51 AM, Four is Enough said:

I never saw suits, so I'll have to take your word for it, but the only things I've ever seen Meghan play are one-note, smug characters, not far removed from her real life.

 

Maybe so, but she made a ton of money doing so. At $50,000 an episode, she made more money than I do in a year. 

 

[Ozlsn]

On 1/9/2024 at 2:02 AM, Four is Enough said:

Anne, after all, has been a stalwart source of support for first her mother, and now Charles. The Princess Royal, after all.

Anne is also female, the oldest, and was taught by her mother that Duty Comes First (as were her siblings). The monarchy and society when she was growing up had much stricter proscribed roles based on rank and gender, and as the oldest Anne was basically expected to get over herself and help her younger, far less temperamentally suited to be monarch, brother.

Harry has more in common with Andrew and Edward in that the expectations of them as royalty were never as much as the expectations placed on Anne. 

[treehugger]

Can you imagine if we had Queen Anne instead of King Charles? 

[DalmatianCat]

5 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Anne is also female, the oldest, and was taught by her mother that Duty Comes First (as were her siblings). The monarchy and society when she was growing up had much stricter proscribed roles based on rank and gender, and as the oldest Anne was basically expected to get over herself and help her younger, far less temperamentally suited to be monarch, brother.

Harry has more in common with Andrew and Edward in that the expectations of them as royalty were never as much as the expectations placed on Anne. 

Anne is not the oldest. Charles is. Birth order is Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward.