Harry & Meghan 17: St Meghan's Hagiography

[Jackie3]

12 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

At least now some of them are using Princess of Wales.  

Are you concerned that this foreign princess does not get enough respect in the media?

[klein_roeschen]

15 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

More than a few media outlets referred to Diana as "Lady Di" well after the 1981 marriage. 

I chalk it up to ignorance.

It would be interesting to see how the press would refer to Camilla or Kate if they where a foreign royal princess like it was standart just a couple generations ago and carried that title in their own name like prince Philip was.

[louisa05]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:27 AM, Coconut Flan said:

At least now some of them are using Princess of Wales.  

I saw a site call her "Kate Middleton, Duchess of Wales" yesterday. I can't even...

On 1/2/2024 at 10:59 AM, viii said:

I think it’s because it’s what she was most commonly known by for so long, so now Google wise, it’s just easier to keep it up. I don’t think it’s really a big deal. The minute they said she was to be called Catherine instead of Kate I knew it wouldn’t go well. Too many people know her as one thing. And she’s not the only one they do it do, either. 

The same people managed to change from Prince Charles to King Charles. 

[viii]

I think the monarch is slightly different than a member of the royal family. Article wise it’s King Charles but I’ve heard lots of people say Prince Charles when speaking about him, because it’s hard to break a 73 habit. I also hear a lot of people call him Chucky, which is the best out of all the options 😂

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I saw a site call her "Kate Middleton, Duchess of Wales" yesterday. I can't even...

The same people managed to change from Prince Charles to King Charles. 

I don't understand. Why would Americans be concerned that a British monarchy isn't being treated respectfully enough?

I'd think saluting, curtsies, "your magesty"s, lines of soldiers standing in rows, portraits of the monarch in every school. . . all show plenty respect. How much do they need, actually? 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I mean it’s kind of obvious at this point…

https://nypost.com/2024/01/02/entertainment/meghan-markle-wants-to-be-queen-kate-middleton-has-everything-she-wants/

[viii]

This is such obvious clickbait and it blows my mind that people still fall for it. Regardless of what people think about Meghan, she’s not an idiot. She might be a lot of other things but she isn’t stupid. She knows she just can’t waltz in and demand to be queen, eliminating the four people ahead of her husband in succession. She might be a liar and seek attention, but she isn’t an absolute moron with no sense of brain activity. Articles like this are absolute garbage. 

[tabitha2]

I have absolutely no doubt the covets everything Catherine Middleton has and is full of jibes and little ways to get attention back on herself but ultimately Meghan can only stew about it 

[Jackie3]

16 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I have absolutely no doubt the covets everything Catherine Middleton has and is full of jibes and little ways to get attention back on herself but ultimately Meghan can only stew about it 

Exactly. A person who longs be involved in British royalty generally moves to California and cuts off contact with them. That's the best way to get close to the royals.

As for Meghan, there are a few things I doubt she envies about Kate:

--Kate's indifferent husband

--Her need to ask her husband or her FIL when she needs money. Complete financial dependence, in other words.

--Kate's inability to fly to concerts with VIPs, then dance the evening away in a private box

--Kate's many damp homes in a cold, rainy climate (complete with bats and mice!)

--Kate's status as a "commoner" among all her husband's snooty friends

--Kate's lack of career accomplishments 

--Kate's lack of opportunity to be anything other than. . . the POW. She can have fun being the POW (if it is fun), but most other doors are shut. 

 

 

 

[just_ordinary]

On 1/6/2024 at 6:52 AM, viii said:

This is such obvious clickbait and it blows my mind that people still fall for it. Regardless of what people think about Meghan, she’s not an idiot. She might be a lot of other things but she isn’t stupid. She knows she just can’t waltz in and demand to be queen, eliminating the four people ahead of her husband in succession. She might be a liar and seek attention, but she isn’t an absolute moron with no sense of brain activity. Articles like this are absolute garbage. 

Absolutely. Did M think/hope (probably spurred on by H) that her role would be bigger in a modernised monarchy? Maybe. But I highly doubt she was as dumb as believing the more „popular“ couple would play the first fiddle. 
W&H very probably had talks when they were teens about how things should be. Especially under the impression of their parent’s drama. I can absolutely see a teen W having grand ideas about how to do things differently. He himself talked about his struggles with his future role. It’s not crazy to imagine that he maybe planned to distribute the work and power different with his brother. But people grow up and circumstances change. 
My personal believe is that H did believe that his role would be different. And as he seemed to stop growing up and staying in touch with the realities around him was shocked to find out that 40yo W was not planning the same things as 15yo W. I also believe he sold M a completely unrealistic version of their life.

[viii]

That’s such an excellent point. It was no secret how much William struggled with his future role and I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if he asked or expected Harry to help share the load. Harry has always seemed like he was destined for more of a role than his birth order indicated, and such conversations would make perfect sense. All speculation, of course, but it’s an idea that I hadn’t considered before. 

[louisa05]

3 hours ago, viii said:

That’s such an excellent point. It was no secret how much William struggled with his future role and I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if he asked or expected Harry to help share the load. Harry has always seemed like he was destined for more of a role than his birth order indicated, and such conversations would make perfect sense. All speculation, of course, but it’s an idea that I hadn’t considered before. 

I hesitate to blame William here. He spent significant time (weekly while at Eton) with his grandmother learning how the job worked. He wasn’t that naive. 
 Well sourced biographies tell us that Diana insisted on raising the boys as if their future roles were equal and that she continually told Harry that he would be William’s right hand when he became king. 
 

[viii]

I don’t think William is to fully blame, either. Diana did both her children a massive disservice by giving them false hope and expectations. Although I have to wonder… where was Charles all in this?? He should have been the one to bring them all back to reality. 

[just_ordinary]

11 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I hesitate to blame William here. He spent significant time (weekly while at Eton) with his grandmother learning how the job worked. He wasn’t that naive. 
 Well sourced biographies tell us that Diana insisted on raising the boys as if their future roles were equal and that she continually told Harry that he would be William’s right hand when he became king. 
 

I don’t think it is putting blame on Wiliam if you assume that he probably had very different ideas about how to build his legacy than he has now. We still talk about a young teenager that lost his mother in a tragic accident and had his grief played out publicly plus had to face a hysteria from strangers that is pretty crazy looking back. The RF is known for being dysfunctional and his parents had a messy divorce that put him in more than one uncomfortable position. I have no idea what was said in private and if you believe the ginger haired than they were never close at all.

But wanting to build a different kind of monarchy and stopping with some hurtful actions isn’t too crazy to assume. H did say that they didn’t want to brief against each other and was unhappy when it seemed as if W joined the game. Now, I don’t believe anything H says without a grain of salt and assume it was probably slightly different BUT I also don’t think his ideas come completely out of nothing. He strikes me as one of those that always seem to hear completely different things than anyone else. A close relative of mine is like that and I often wonder if we had the same conversation or if they are just completely delusional and living in their own world.

[Jackie3]

If Diana raised her boys as though their futures were equal, then good for her. What's the alternative? Tell young William he'll have an important job, and tell little Harry he'll have nothing of importance to do? That's not healthy.

Should the current Wales children be raised that way? Just assume Charlotte and Louis will do nothing important in life, and tell them so? Because that's what "different roles" really means, in this context. Diana to William--"You'll be king of England, inherit billions, and appear on coins." Harry--"You'll have a 'different role', honey."

Besides, William likely will not become king till he is in his 60's. From Diana's perspective, her boys would spend most of their lives doing similar things--doing walkabouts, shaking hands, meeting dignitaries, opening hospitals, etc. It's only toward the end of his life that William would assume a different role.

Which brings up another question--is it reasonable to "train" a teen for something he'll do in his 60's? Do 13-year olds remember what their granny said 50 years earlier? Seems like a waste of time. 

Edited January 7 by Jackie3

[tabitha2]

I always have heard she considered  Harry  her charming cheeky little Monkey and  doted on him more as She believed the family would take care of William which is not incorrect. But Diana who had been brought up knowing hierarchy and rank determined a Noble/Royal persons finances, security, future career, Etc leading her younger son to believe he was the just same as William  and be what? A co monarch?  Seems bizarre and almost cruel. 

[viii]

And who knows if she even did or to the extent that is reported. I feel like a lot of Diana’s mannerisms and behaviour has been exaggerated over the years since her death. 

It would have been really interesting to see the BRF if Diana had never died. Would Charles have still married Camilla, and if so, how much better/worse would her reception of Queen been? How would William and, more interestingly enough, how would Harry have turned out? I think it’s safe to say that probably neither boy would be married to Kate or Meghan if Diana had never died. 

I guess we’ll never know! 

[tabitha2]

Seems like Diana was possessive of her boys and had a jealous streak. William at least would have had to marry an appropriate woman to be his Queen eventually of course but I see his Mother not liking it at all when a new younger presumably attractive woman took her place in W’s life and in the public eye. 

[viii]

I think the boys were too young when she died to determine if that was true or not. She was protective of them, yes, and confided in them with things she shouldn’t have (especially William), but I’m not sure it’s factual to say she would have been insanely jealous over future girlfriends. I think both Harry and William would have married if Diana had never died, I just think they would have married different women. 

[tabitha2]

I am not sure why you don’t think he would have married Kate or Diana would have had objections. 

[viii]

I think William married Kate because she gave him what he was lacking - a stable family. She’s very close with her parents, who seem to have a happy marriage, and she’s close to her siblings. 

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Kate, and perhaps he would have married her or someone like her regardless, but I just think he would have probably chosen differently if he had never lost his mother. 

[tabitha2]

I think growing up he saw how choosing the wrong or high spirited spouse in his family caused no end of trouble, scandal, drama, cruel press coverage, high profile embarrassing divorces, Etc and he determined to make sure his future bride was going to fit in Flawlessly, be approved by his GP’s and Father and always always going to keep calm and carry on. 
 

 

[TN-peach]

8 hours ago, viii said:

I don’t think William is to fully blame, either. Diana did both her children a massive disservice by giving them false hope and expectations. Although I have to wonder… where was Charles all in this?? He should have been the one to bring them all back to reality. 

Maybe Charles did try and that is why Harry is bitter towards his father or sees the actions of his father in a negative light?! 

[tabitha2]

My gut says  Charles  naturally assumed Harry knew or at least would realize  as he matured that William as heir would get treated differently, get more attention, protection Etc and Harry would deal with it in an adult way, support his brother because that’s what brothers do and all. 

Harry grew up watching family members walk behind each other in public. Watching people get different levels of deference depending on rank , sex, if they were with their spouse or not, speaking when spoken to and so on so why would he think he and Bro would be on the same level? 
 

 

 

 

 

[viii]

If Charles was naive enough to believe that Harry would be the Anne to William, then that foolishness is on him.