Harry & Meghan 16

[AmazonGrace]

I am not a fashionista and I am probably only going to pay attention when celebrities wear something weird and memeworthy. They could all be sporting lovely items all the time but it's the toilet seat hat and the raw steak dress that I will remember.

 

[Destiny]

13 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

the raw steak dress that I will remember.

what the all-encompassing hell? someone really did that? WHO?!

[Alisamer]

I know, right? Royal women have had their fashion choices analyzed and criticized from the invention of media (see Marie Antoinette for just one example), and Beatrice and Eugenie took it HARD for a long time. (How did they reduce the amount of it? Fewer public appearances and hiring a stylist along with having newer more important royal women marry into the family!) Even Diana was criticized quite a bit when some of her fashion choices fell flat. Fergie often was ridiculed. Every event royals attend their outfits will be examined and articles written about them. 

I try not to respond to Trolletta but this post is especially contradictory and nonsensical. 

Also it's plain offensive, because therapy is good for EVERYONE. There's no way in the universe someone in her position would not benefit from a good therapist. You don't have to have a mental illness to benefit from a counselor or therapist. Clearly Trolletta is prejudiced against people who attend therapy, as she thinks suggesting Meghan attend therapy is an insult!

So Troletta says the only way to avoid charges of racism are to only criticize the Sussexes (and apparently everyone they know, since criticism of Beatrice also apparently is racist somehow? Despite her whiteness somehow protecting her from ever being criticized?) for "valid reasons."

I'd like to know what the "valid reasons" are. I suspect the answer is "nothing, because Meghan is perfect and even if she wasn't she's a woman of color so it's racist to criticize her ever for any reason."

Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? We've got the troll who cried "racism". There'll be a time (unfortunately probably sooner than anyone would like) when there IS something actually racist that is valid to discuss in regard to Meghan, again. And not one person will listen to Trolletta even if she has good valid points that would add to the discussion because she clearly can't tell the difference between the normal fashion criticism every person with B list and above fame gets daily, and actual racism. 

I think that's what's most infuriating about our resident Royal Troll. She sometimes is right on the border of a very good point that would be a good thing to discuss... and then veers into attacks and contradictions and accusing people of racism, and manages to undermine her own points. She's on the edge of something meaningful, and zooms off into incoherent nonsense. 

I think Trolletta would benefit from a bit of therapy, frankly. To work out whatever issues prevent her from actually contributing to the discussion at hand, and make her see malice whenever even the mildest criticism is made of her pet royal. Criticism isn't an attack. Criticism isn't hatred. Criticism isn't, in most cases, rooted in racism. And nobody's going to believe someone who says it is - even if they are right - if that person says literally everything that isn't fawning adoration is actually racism.

I don't know if Trolletta really is just that obsessed with Meghan, or if she's actually running a clever campaing against Meghan. Because I know there are a LOT of people on here who liked Meghan a lot, still don't dislike her, and have a lot of sympathy for her as a person... who Trolletta has made dislike Meghan. Like, I was thrilled for her when she married Harry, I feel for her struggles (even while thinking she could potentially have handled some things better), am horrified by the racism against her and the kids, and am generally positive-to-neutral about her if asked. But Trolletta has made me feel dislike when I think of Meghan. It's actually dislike for Trolletta's blindly obsessive white knighting for Meghan, and I try to remember that.

But damn if I don't cringe every time Meghan is mentioned anywhere and think "Oh God how is Trolletta going to spin this into meaning Meghan is the happiest most wonderful richest best ever person in the universe while simultaneously accusing everyone else of being racist?"

Just now, Destiny said:

what the all-encompassing hell? someone really did that? WHO?!

Lady Gaga, if I remember right.

Spoiler

 

[AmazonGrace]

Just now, Destiny said:

what the all-encompassing hell? someone really did that? WHO?!

Lady Gaga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_dress_of_Lady_Gaga

[Destiny]

12 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I think that's what's most infuriating about our resident Royal Troll. She sometimes is right on the border of a very good point that would be a good thing to discuss... and then veers into attacks and contradictions and accusing people of racism, and manages to undermine her own points. She's on the edge of something meaningful, and zooms off into incoherent nonsense. 

So much this. There's the raw materials of good posts sometimes and sometimes she says stuff that makes me think and then it just all goes to hell.

 

12 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I don't know if Trolletta really is just that obsessed with Meghan, or if she's actually running a clever campaing against Meghan. Because I know there are a LOT of people on here who liked Meghan a lot, still don't dislike her, and have a lot of sympathy for her as a person... who Trolletta has made dislike Meghan. Like, I was thrilled for her when she married Harry, I feel for her struggles (even while thinking she could potentially have handled some things better), am horrified by the racism against her and the kids, and am generally positive-to-neutral about her if asked. But Trolletta has made me feel dislike when I think of Meghan. It's actually dislike for Trolletta's blindly obsessive white knighting for Meghan, and I try to remember that.

Me too actually. I enjoyed Suits, and I enjoyed Meghan in Suits and was happy for her when she married Harry, and frankly think some of the criticism of her is completely overblown, but Madam Troll has made me somewhat dislike her because now I associate her with her less than delightful fan club.

 

10 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Lady Gaga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_dress_of_Lady_Gaga

What the actual fuck? That is freeking DISGUSTING. I literally gagged. I know Gaga has made some ... choices when it comes to fashion, but this is just yikes. I'm now vaguely nauseated lol.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Destiny

[tabitha2]

I am more upset about the disgusting waste of food.

[Destiny]

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I am more upset about the disgusting waste of food.

TBH I didn't even think of that. I'm a vegetarian in no small part because of the fact that I can't stand touching raw meat, so I have a hard time even thinking of it as food, but that's a solid point.

I think I vaguely remember reading about this at the time, but I don't think I realised it was a literal meat dress vs fabric intended to look like meat.

[Alisamer]

I think my favorite odd dress was Bjork's swan dress. Much better than Gaga's disgusting dress.

Spoiler

It's true, people only remember the odd stuff and the major fails. An outfit has to be truly spectacular to be remembered for how good is. Even Diana's wedding dress is remembered for how huge and poofy and how long the train was and how it looked a bit like wrinkled bedsheets. It was beautiful, sure, but so were lots of royal wedding dresses. Hers was extreme, and also was HERS, and that's why it's so memorable.

Meghan's dress was very pretty too, and set wedding dress trends for a time. Same with Kate's, though hers was a known quantity, being so similar to Princess Grace of Monaco's iconic dress.

I think Beatrice had my very favorite royal wedding dress, though. A vintage dress borrowed from the Queen. 

[AmazonGrace]

1 hour ago, Destiny said:

TBH I didn't even think of that. I'm a vegetarian in no small part because of the fact that I can't stand touching raw meat, so I have a hard time even thinking of it as food, but that's a solid point.

I think I vaguely remember reading about this at the time, but I don't think I realised it was a literal meat dress vs fabric intended to look like meat.

I just hope they burned the seats she sat on.

[Destiny]

4 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I just hope they burned the seats she sat on.

I have a "This TBH" reply emoji thing on my workplace Slack, and never have I been as tempted as right now to break my no new reactions 'cause the system won't handle them rule as I am right now.

Though, this did remind me to explore checking to see if they have improved this at all on my todo list.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Destiny

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I just rewatched The Simpsons episode with Lady Gaga; when she wears the meat dress Homer is behind her with a blow torch cooking the meat and eating it. 
 

I stand by what I said regarding Meghan and Harry getting therapy. Some of the things they do that shoot themselves in the foot are clearly done from a place of pain. It would do both of them some real good. 
 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Father Son Holy Goat

[Jackie3]

10 hours ago, Loveday said:

If I recall correctly--and I do, because I've been following the royals all my life🥴--Beatrice and Eugenie bore the brunt of fashion criticism for a long time. The press and the public were absolutely vicous about some of their outfits, reaching an apex of snark with Beatrice's hat (fascinator?). The discussions only died down when new targets--Kate and Meghan--came along. Things have gotten better with Kate in the past couple of years as she's settled into a fairly classic, lowkey, non-controversial style, but she still gets hit with it now and then. Criticism of Meghan's wardrobe choices has nothing to do with race and everything to do with...wait for it...her wardrobe choices! 😆

*waits breathlessly for the inevitable accusation of RACIST!!11eleventy!11 from Trolletta 🤣

Interesting. I do not see the thread on FJ about Bea and Eug, and their fashion choices.

 

On 8/10/2023 at 9:27 AM, viii said:

Yep.  

Great! Then show me your page criticizing Bea and Eug. 

[just_ordinary]

21 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think my favorite odd dress was Bjork's swan dress. Much better than Gaga's disgusting dress.

  Hide contents

It's true, people only remember the odd stuff and the major fails. An outfit has to be truly spectacular to be remembered for how good is. Even Diana's wedding dress is remembered for how huge and poofy and how long the train was and how it looked a bit like wrinkled bedsheets. It was beautiful, sure, but so were lots of royal wedding dresses. Hers was extreme, and also was HERS, and that's why it's so memorable.

Meghan's dress was very pretty too, and set wedding dress trends for a time. Same with Kate's, though hers was a known quantity, being so similar to Princess Grace of Monaco's iconic dress.

I think Beatrice had my very favorite royal wedding dress, though. A vintage dress borrowed from the Queen. 

I agree with your conclusion about what makes people remember a dress for decades. Royal weddings with lots of coverage will give an additional push even if the dress is not necessarily gorgeous or ugly. 
I disagree that Meghan‘s dress set a trend though. At least here. Fitted, slim and plain dressed were already in fashion. In fact, Kate was the one that made lace tops with lace long sleeves fashionable again. For a couple of years that was all you would get after the sleeves A line dresses (apart from sweetheart neckline mermaid style). Afterwards came see-through, more revealing and sexy cuts and then BoHo. Then retro/vintage dresses. And then then clean looks with almost no lace or embellishments. Doesn’t mean the other looks disappeared completely but just the timeline when something new hit and got really popular. So Kate introduced (long) sleeves to the public but Meghan followed a trend that was already popular. I still think Meghan looked gorgeous in her dress and I really don’t think the fit was that bad. I also loved her veil but its weight sadly pulled her hairstyle down. When she left the church it was painfully obvious that it couldn’t withstand the pull and got loose - and not in a pretty way (and I love me a messy bun!).

I find Eugenie’s and Beatrice‘s dresses super interesting as they don’t necessarily fit into any of the big trends/silhouettes at the time and also looked extra princess-y in a way that neither Kate nor Meghan did. And I don’t think that being a „blood princess“ gives you some extra bonus points. Just the styles they chose reminded me of fairytales. A bit outdated as if they are from an old folk tales book but not obviously from a certain trend to make it cringe. No idea how they managed that. Especially because I hate 75% of their fashion choices. If they employ stylists they should fire them.

Edited August 12, 2023 by just_ordinary

[moreorlessnu]

23 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Same with Kate's, though hers was a known quantity, being so similar to Princess Grace of Monaco's iconic dress.

 

I disliked Kate's veil. I thought it looked too much like a death shroud. The rest of her dress was lovely.

 

[viii]

I hated Kate’s dress. I had such high hopes for it. I always knew it was going to be a modest style but I found it stifling and didn’t like the peaks on her chest; gave her cone nipples. The lace sleeves were okay but overall found her dress so underwhelming. 

Surprisingly, Eugenie’s whole ensemble is my favourite, followed by Meghan’s. 

[Manda]

Meghan's dress was made of the wrong fabric for the style.  It looked like it could stand up on its own.  I didn't like the bust line on Kate's either.  Surely they didn't design it to turn out like that.  I loved Princess Beatrice's rewear.  It was perfect for the wedding she had and such a tribute to her Grandma.  I think it was my favorite of the four.  

Why oh why and what was wrong with Meghan this week?

https://pagesix.com/2023/08/11/meghan-markle-wears-coat-cashmere-shawl-in-70-degree-california/

It's summer in Southern California.  No one needs a winter coat much less a scarf.  

On the note of why Charles doesn't do more for people, why doesn't Meghan quit buying designer everything and give that money to the unsheltered herself?  She and Harry could do so much more for people with their supposed millions if only they would.  (Waves at she who shall not be named.}

[prayawaythefundie]

I‘ll defend the scarf in summer look today because I‘ve been ill this past week and doing that myself. When I have a sore throat / cold thingy, keeping my body extra warm feels comforting and helps me to get better. I probably need it because I almost never have a temperature.

ETA: To me Diana‘s wedding dress was absolutely hideous, even for an 80s style. None of the others was that bad.

Edited August 12, 2023 by prayawaythefundie

[SoSoNosy]

I disliked the peaks on Kate's chest, too, and her veil seemed to completely overwhelm the tiara.  Was it a heavier fabric than most veils?  I know it was a double layer, but others have had that and it didn't look as much like mosquito netting.  I thought Meghan's was a beautiful dress, but I also thought it would have been lovelier in a lighter weight fabric.  

I loved both the York girls'!  Beatrice's was a genius inspiration, and totally perfect for her wedding.

 

[sableduck]

I was rather annoyed that Kate got married two years after me and seemed to launch the sleeve revival. For my 2009 wedding, it was so difficult to find something that wasn’t sleeveless that my mom ended up making my wedding dress. Fortunately she was a seamstress who made prom/wedding/college recital dresses for a living at that point, so it worked out well.

But if I’d married three years later I’d have had my pick of wedding dresses with sleeves.

[AmazonGrace]

I had to google these dresses in order to have an opinion. (I can't NOT have an opinion, can I?)

 

Spoiler

I like the sleeves, the veil looks awkward. This looks a bit like mine way back when.  My skirt was less full but I had lacy sleeves.

Diana's dress looks like the princess ball gowns that I used to draw when I was five. Very puffy and too much of everything, and it doesn't matter what the princess looks like inside the ruffles.

I like the dress, not crazy about the tiara.

The vintage and the tradition gives it a nice story.  Not sure what the frilly knobs are? The tiara is very warrior queen, superspiky.

This is simple and beautiful. I don't care for the trains although this is not as hideous as Diana'sn train was.

This photo makes it look a bit shapeless but I imagine this looked better in person and you could decipher the details that made it cost a fortune. The train is so awkward.

 

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

I really don't like the super long veils hanging way out beyond the dress.  What's the point?  It looks like just to be showy.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

I really don't like the super long veils hanging way out beyond the dress.  What's the point?  It looks like just to be showy.  

“Just to be showy” is the point of most wedding attire.

[moreorlessnu]

I liked Eugenie's whole ensemble the best. It really suited her.

I remember how we all gasped in horror when Diana exited the carriage and her gown (which was wearing Diana instead of Diana wearing the gown) was a wrinkled mess. There was a sense of, "Really?? This is what royalty and lots of money is supposed to look like??"

May she rest in peace. I really liked Diana and wish she was still alive for her sons.

[Jackie3]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:45 AM, Alisamer said:

I don't know if Trolletta really is just that obsessed with Meghan, or if she's actually running a clever campaing against Meghan. Because I know there are a LOT of people on here who liked Meghan a lot, still don't dislike her, and have a lot of sympathy for her as a person... who Trolletta has made dislike Meghan. Like, I was thrilled for her when she married Harry, I feel for her struggles (even while thinking she could potentially have handled some things better), am horrified by the racism against her and the kids, and am generally positive-to-neutral about her if asked. But Trolletta has made me feel dislike when I think of Meghan. It's actually dislike for Trolletta's blindly obsessive white knighting for Meghan, and I try to remember that.

 

I don't think Trolletta is all that powerful.

[tabitha2]

Meghan’s hair let down her wedding look. It looked like hair to run errands or walk the dog in.