Harry & Meghan 16

[Loveday]

I married into a Filipino family with three sons. All three sons married white women of northern European extraction (English/Scottish, German, and Swiss, mainly). The children of my brothers' in law all very much favor their Filipino side--brown skin, dark, almost black hair, and dark eyes. MY children, on the other hand, for some odd reason mostly take after me, although they both do have brown eyes (mine are green, most of my family has or had green, hazel, or blue eyes). My son has dark hair, but my daughter's hair is a lighter brown, almost as light as mine. Both my kids are often mistaken as white, their skin is very close to my wan, pasty paleness. Son burns easily and doesn't really tan; while daughter also burns easily she tans easily, too. It's funny to see all the cousins together; my two really stand out at the family reunions! 😆

My husband often used this family example in his lessons on genetics in 7th grade science--you just never know which bits of DNA you're going to get! 🥴

[just_ordinary]

In Harry‘s defence - there are two versions that either describe two incidents or the same with an unclear reaction of Harry. I will not count the „skin colour ≠ prince” argument because it was always rubbish.
(1) two incidents: a) H told M about it and she got really upset and explained to him what was upsetting about it & b) a remark that left him uncomfortable 

(2) one incident that either left him just uncomfortable /oblivious/ and M got upset when he told her.

In any way neither of them confronted the commenter. And H didn’t say anything in that moment. In fact, he made a 180° turn and stated neither of them called the person racist but rather that there was unawareness but never a bad intention. As with so many things I find it hard to take them at face value when they themselves present different accounts in the same event.
I absolutely hope that, after the horrible things that were said about M in the comment sections, the topic of the skin colour of any subsequent children was approached. I definitely would have been extremely concerned about what would be written or said about them. Not because they are the problem but rather to brace yourself and figure out a way to deal with it (be it consequently following up legally if possible, a prepared statement if it would be necessary and so on). Thankfully the worst thing I have seen about Archie and Lili is wether they were conceived via surrogate or are actors playing the part. But they are as white as Harry. The reaction would probably have been rather different from some corners if that wasn’t the case.

[viii]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Thankfully the worst thing I have seen about Archie and Lili is wether they were conceived via surrogate or are actors playing the part. But they are as white as Harry. The reaction would probably have been rather different from some corners if that wasn’t the case.

When Archie was born, a journalist tweeted a picture of a man and woman holding hands with a baby chimpanzee and the headline said: Royal Baby Comes Home From the Hospital or something like that.

Thankfully he got a lot of backlash, but his apology was very much “sorry if you’re offended, take a joke!!”

[KatharineClimpson]

52 minutes ago, viii said:

When Archie was born, a journalist tweeted a picture of a man and woman holding hands with a baby chimpanzee and the headline said: Royal Baby Comes Home From the Hospital or something like that.

Thankfully he got a lot of backlash, but his apology was very much “sorry if you’re offended, take a joke!!”

His name is Danny Baker, and that "joke" ruined his career, he was sacked by his employers the BBC , so the backlash had teeth in it.

[just_ordinary]

4 hours ago, viii said:

When Archie was born, a journalist tweeted a picture of a man and woman holding hands with a baby chimpanzee and the headline said: Royal Baby Comes Home From the Hospital or something like that.

Thankfully he got a lot of backlash, but his apology was very much “sorry if you’re offended, take a joke!!”

I was rather talking about the horrible things that unfolded in the comment sections and on discussion boards. They were surprisingly tame on that topic compared to the craziness that’s usually there. Most tin foil heads just call for cutting the children out of the LOS for x reason, but the hate is usually reserved for H&M.
 

The chimpanzee was way out of line. His only defence might be that he posted very similar pictures about other prominent babies/people. All some form of “show animals”/chimpanzees iirc. But not realising that in this case it would have an extra negative impact is so stupid I can’t even. The saying, “Being stupid  doesn’t protect you from punishment” rings true here.

Edited August 26, 2023 by just_ordinary

[apandaaries]

Ever since it came out that Camilla speculated about H & M’s kid having a ginger Afro, I’ve wondered if that was the comment/conversation under debate. The Oprah interview made the comment sound very racist, but then they backtracked about that, as well.

 

Unreliable narrators face a host of problems, and this is one: we can’t be sure of the content nor context of the comment. 
 

I’m white, and my kid is mixed (south East Asian). Back in the days of pregnancy, we all speculated about what she’d look like with her genetic combination. We were curious! Other mixed families have shared similar stories with me — we’ve always taken it as a cool aspect of “who will they favor/what could we expect?” Speculating about what a baby could look like seems very normal to me.

Simultaneously, if the original Oprah report was true about concern over the shade of skin and its potential “darkness,” that’s obviously awful. 
 

But we don’t know what was said, how, or any details, really. Since we have a credibility issue, H & M taking offense at Camilla saying something like, “imagine if the boy has Harry’s coloring, but a ginger Afro,” seems plausible. Yet I would find a comment like that humorous, because (normally) we don’t know the characteristics a fetus has selected/randomly been assigned until birth.  

Some consistency to their stories would be so helpful. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by apandaaries

[prayawaythefundie]

9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

In any way neither of them confronted the commenter. And H didn’t say anything in that moment. In fact, he made a 180° turn and stated neither of them called the person racist but rather that there was unawareness but never a bad intention. 

This is what makes me think the commenter may have contacted them after the Oprah interview.
And I think it can‘t have been Camilla or William then because Harry tried to protect the commenter in his later interviews close to the release of Spare. And he‘s certainly not protecting Camilla or William in Spare.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Still, I’m not going to tell the parents of a part African American (African British? I don’t know the UK term) child that they can’t be offended by speculation about how dark their baby will be.

[prayawaythefundie]

4 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Still, I’m not going to tell the parents of a part African American (African British? I don’t know the UK term) child that they can’t be offended by speculation about how dark their baby will be.

Absolutely agree. In general, I think I can‘t tell people to not be offended.

However, I would hope for them to speak to me in person about having caused offense before they make vague accusations on international television that keep everyone guessing who said what. And I don‘t think (can’t know, of course) they did talk to the commenter before.

[AmazonGrace]

The Invictus document has Harry saying he had no support system .  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12456841/Prince-Harrys-new-Invictus-Games-Netflix-series-released.html i can easily believe that none of the BRF are qualified to help solve mental health problems but I don't believe for a moment that what with all their money and resources, Harry couldn't have hired the best therapists if he wanted to. Of course there are some things that arent easy to fix regardless of privilege. But I am sure he had much more access than a random broke veteran

[Jackie3]

4 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

The Invictus document has Harry saying he had no support system .  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12456841/Prince-Harrys-new-Invictus-Games-Netflix-series-released.html i can easily believe that none of the BRF are qualified to help solve mental health problems but I don't believe for a moment that what with all their money and resources, Harry couldn't have hired the best therapists if he wanted to. Of course there are some things that arent easy to fix regardless of privilege. But I am sure he had much more access than a random broke veteran

Hours of filming about wounded vets, and that's the takeaway? It's certainly likely that no one in the BRF supported Harry, that's common in nonroyal families. 

Is he required to say that everything was perfect living int he Palace, simply because he was part of a royal family? Because I can see lots of downsides and limitations. I don't understand the requirement that he pretend everything was perfect.

How sad the focus is on trashing Harry, even in a docu about wounded veterans.

[VGL]

In an article from 2017, Harry talks about how William encouraged him to seek counselling.

https://www.vogue.com/article/prince-harry-telegraph-interview-depression-diana-personal-life

Quote

It was only three years ago, Prince Harry tells Gordon, that he began to seek counseling and receive the support he needed, in part thanks to the concern and encouragement of Prince William (proving, as we all suspected, they are the dearest and best of brothers).

“My brother was a huge blessing. He kept saying ‘This is not right, this is not normal—you need to talk about stuff. It’s not normal to think that nothing’s affected you,’ ” Harry said. “All of a sudden, all of this grief that I have never processed started to come to the forefront.”

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by VGL
spelling

[tabitha2]

Oh. Harold. You are your own worst enemy. 
 

 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Oh. Harold. You are your own worst enemy. 
 

 

No one seems interested in the veterans at all.

 

On 8/26/2023 at 11:46 AM, apandaaries said:

I’m white, and my kid is mixed (south East Asian). Back in the days of pregnancy, we all speculated about what she’d look like with her genetic combination. We were curious! Other mixed families have shared similar stories with me — we’ve always taken it as a cool aspect of “who will they favor/what could we expect?” Speculating about what a baby could look like seems very normal to me.

 

Totally different than a majority race family member speculating about a minority family member.

A white person says to a mixed race couple, "How Hispanic do you think your baby will look?"   Not OK.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Jackie3

[just_ordinary]

If H could leave his perpetual victim mindset he could have used this moment for shining a light on the stigma and slim mental health resources for military personnel and veterans. He was in the lucky position to got into therapy quickly once he decided to do so. But no, instead it’s another poor H with the dead mum show. 
And how does he not realise that contradicting yourself without explanation makes you look utterly unreliable.

[TN-peach]

"Recollections may vary."  The Queen was a wise woman because some of Harry's recollections do not match with the facts. 

For example, blaming the British press for outing him when he was in Afghanistan.  It was the Drudge Report and a news source in Australia. 

If he didn't have the press to blame for everything that went wrong in this life then he might have to look in the mirror and take some responsibility of his own. 

[Jackie3]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

If H could leave his perpetual victim mindset he could have used this moment for shining a light on the stigma and slim mental health resources for military personnel and veterans. He was in the lucky position to got into therapy quickly once he decided to do so. But no, instead it’s another poor H with the dead mum show. 
And how does he not realise that contradicting yourself without explanation makes you look utterly unreliable.

Well, he's done a heck of a lot more for veterans than his brother, or his father, or any of us, for that matter. 

 

6 hours ago, TN-peach said:

"Recollections may vary."  The Queen was a wise woman because some of Harry's recollections do not match with the facts. 

For example, blaming the British press for outing him when he was in Afghanistan.  It was the Drudge Report and a news source in Australia. 

If he didn't have the press to blame for everything that went wrong in this life then he might have to look in the mirror and take some responsibility of his own. 

Wow! This whole amazing event for veterans and not a word about it. I think Harry could solve the Middle East problem and someone would find fault.

At least he flew to Dusseldorf for his charity, unlike his brother, who wouldn't interrupt his lengthy holiday.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

If H could leave his perpetual victim mindset he could have used this moment for shining a light on the stigma and slim mental health resources for military personnel and veterans. He was in the lucky position to got into therapy quickly once he decided to do so. But no, instead it’s another poor H with the dead mum show. 
And how does he not realise that contradicting yourself without explanation makes you look utterly unreliable.

That would have been a much better use of that moment, to raise awareness or even funds for soldier’s mental health. 
 

2 hours ago, TN-peach said:

"Recollections may vary."  The Queen was a wise woman because some of Harry's recollections do not match with the facts. 

For example, blaming the British press for outing him when he was in Afghanistan.  It was the Drudge Report and a news source in Australia. 

If he didn't have the press to blame for everything that went wrong in this life then he might have to look in the mirror and take some responsibility of his own. 

The “recollections may vary” line was supposedly Kate’s contribution.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2023/07/kate-middleton-insists-recollections-may-vary-harry-and-meghan-oprah-interview

 

[SoSoNosy]

If that quote is right, she was correct in saying that the statement would basically go down in history.

[omilona]

Jackie, you do know that W donated over E1,000,000 to Invictus? That’s FAR more than Sparse ever did. But you are right. A guy who wants to end homelessness in the UK (PLENTY of veterans THERE) is far inferior to Prince Bugger Off to Hollywood.

[Jackie3]

15 minutes ago, omilona said:

Jackie, you do know that W donated over E1,000,000 to Invictus? That’s FAR more than Sparse ever did. But you are right. A guy who wants to end homelessness in the UK (PLENTY of veterans THERE) is far inferior to Prince Bugger Off to Hollywood.

Wills also said he wanted to broker peace in the Middle East. Nothing has come of that either.

Yes, I know about that one time donation, what about it? It was very nice.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Jackie3

[rosamundi]

The police officers who sent racist messages in a WhatsApp chat, including ones about the Duchess of Sussex, are due in court this afternoon.

[just_ordinary]

I wonder why M didn’t show up for Invictus. Her name was taken off the program. If she is smart she tries to separate her brand from her husband. His latest moves were really damming. They will probably be more successful with separate business paths. 
It is very of sad for the Games and participants that H, his reception and the absence of M are the only things that are written about it. Reputable national German newspaper and news programs didn’t mention Invictus at all. And the tabloids only gave it a small section in the back/further down the pages, focusing on the above and not the cause. I wonder if H public involvement is hurting the Games more than it helps at the moment.

Edited September 9, 2023 by just_ordinary

[prayawaythefundie]

26 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Reputable national German newspaper and news programs didn’t mention Invictus at all. And the tabloids only gave it a small section in the back/further down the pages, focusing on the above and not the cause. I wonder if H public involvement is hurting the Games more than it helps at the moment.

Harry will be a guest at „Das aktuelle Sportstudio“ tonight and Invictus / his appearance was mentioned in one of the two biggest news programs („heute“). I also got some Invictus article suggested on my phone (didn‘t read it or remember which newspaper or magazine). All those I just picked up randomly, so I assume there to be some more coverage but I didn‘t do any research.

ETA: I have no doubt that Meghan is smarter than Harry.

Edited September 9, 2023 by prayawaythefundie

[viii]

45 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

ETA: I have no doubt that Meghan is smarter than Harry.

This. It’s like how during his book release she was nowhere to be found. She knows when to be seen with him and when to take a step back.