Maxwell 58: What Will Anna Do? Plus Anna Marie Gives Birth

[theologygeek]

1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

When I read that comment my first thought was they weren't sure where Anna was because she had simply disappeared. Like, Steve forbade her to return to WVA so Anna left during the night and caught the first Greyhound bus heading east. Mary and Sam were hoping but not sure that Anna had headed back to ABC and they were relieved to see her photo.

My imagination does run away with me at times.

It's not just you.  That's the first thing I thought of too.  I didn't say anything because I thought it was just me.  The choice of words was kind of odd.  Like of course she's there, where did you think she was, on the moon???  It struck me as either they told her not to go and she said too bad, I'm going, or she took off and no one knew where she was.  

[hoipolloi]

6 hours ago, theologygeek said:

Like of course she's there, where did you think she was, on the moon???

Exactly. Anna is an adult. Apart from withholding funds if they're paying for ABC, there's not much Steve & Teri could do to stop her from returning to campus.

[Bethy]

6 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Exactly. Anna is an adult. Apart from withholding funds if they're paying for ABC, there's not much Steve & Teri could do to stop her from returning to campus.

But this type of fundie culture doesn't really allow for adulthood without marriage. Do you really think every one of the SAHDs in this movement are sitting at home because they have zero desire to launch out in their own? Either through fear of the scary outside world, fear of the consequences ("God will strike you down if you go against our wishes!") or withholding of documentation as in the case of Alecia Pennington, many fundie kids are trapped at home even though legally they are adults and the parents can't actually keep them there. Anna may be 30 but she's still a child in the eyes of many in fundie/Gothard circles, and it seems that more specifically in the Gothard movement, there's an expectation of obedience even after an adult child marries and starts a family of their own.

In short, if you're raised truly believing God will strike you dead of you dishonor your parents, it doesn't matter that you're a legal adult.

[Alisamer]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:32 PM, Black Aliss said:

And Mary encouraged her to "Have soo much fun!" Steve has lost her.

Steve: 

Quote

Oh my Brothers, even if FUN is neutral and not sinful, it is not excellent and will not bear fruit to God’s glory.

Mary:

Quote

Have soo much fun!

LOLOL! Steve is a miserable horrible grinch and I'm glad his daughters are living their own lives now out from under his thumb. I hope they do have LOTS and lots of fun. All the fun. So much FUN. 

Even if they stay pretty fundie, even if I disagree with their beliefs, I think after Steve made their childhoods a scheduled-to-death nightmare where anything that wasn't overtly Godly (per Steve) was a situation poised to tip them over into hell, they deserve to have some fun. 

14 hours ago, theologygeek said:

It's not just you.  That's the first thing I thought of too.  I didn't say anything because I thought it was just me.  The choice of words was kind of odd.  Like of course she's there, where did you think she was, on the moon???  It struck me as either they told her not to go and she said too bad, I'm going, or she took off and no one knew where she was.  

I kind of wonder if maybe she wasn't 100% sure if she was going back. Like after summer break, and with Mary married off and not attending (at least in person) and with Steve going extra hard on his "Fun is not Godly!" spiels lately, there might have been some question.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall. Maybe it was nothing, but I can imagine an argument, and Steve weepingly trying to manipulate her into staying home, and her finally straightening her spine and heading back to school. It probably helps that with Sarah and Mary both married, and all but one of the brothers making some space, Anna probably feels like she has a safe place to land. If Steve told her she couldn't come home, she knows Sarah had an apartment on her own, and likely one of her siblings would put her up for a little bit while she finds a job and a place. It's not risky for her to make her own decisions anymore. Steve can still try to scare her that she's being tempted by satan and will go to hell, but if she doesn't believe him, he's not really got a ton of leverage anymore. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Bethy said:

In short, if you're raised truly believing God will strike you dead of you dishonor your parents, it doesn't matter that you're a legal adult.

Good points but Anna and Mary had already "flown the coop" quite successfully.

They have had 2 years of a successful and enjoyable -- dare I say FUN? -- college career, complete with a wide circle of friends. To me, it's way beyond the point at which Steve & Teri would have any leverage over an adult Anna except, perhaps, for finances.

[Coconut Flan]

Even if Steve was helping with college funding and then tried to use it to control Anna, I'm sure between her work and the college, she'd have figured out a way to do the year.  He's lost his hold for which I'm very, very happy.

[Giraffe]

I’d love to know how different their lives were from what the blog showed. All three “girls” have blossomed in a way I don’t think could’ve happened over just a year. IMO there was something brewing for years before they “went public” about all their changes. Chris and Anna seem almost Amish in how they present themselves but the rest of them - including Nathan and Melanie at this point - visually fit into a typical midwest “look,” just with a few extra children. 
 

Maybe I’m too cynical but IMO as someone who spent a lifetime steeped in purity culture, Sarah looked much more comfortable with Kory (?) in their engagement pictures thank I would expect from someone if she went from extreme purity culture bs to to touching his thigh in a matter of a few months. I wonder if the pastor who encouraged AnnaAndMary to attend college also directed Sarah (and perhaps A&M as well) to a godly woman who conveniently had a legit counseling degree who was able to help her/them see some of the bs. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I personally just can’t imagine a 39 year old never questioning. I can see the young ones never questioning because not only do they have brains that aren’t fully developed, but they are also stunted by isolation. However there comes a point when your brain is fully developed and you likely will mature at least to the point of thinking for yourself. And I figure that often happens before you hit 39. Of course I can’t say when Sarah started questioning, but I’m guessing it was sometime in her 30s. And since she shared a bedroom with her younger sisters all their lives, she likely rubbed off a little on them. 
 

I feel the same way about Jana. She’s in her 30s now. I would not be surprised if we hear she bought her own place and moved out. There comes a point for most people when you just can’t keep convincing yourself that daddy knows absolutely everything and you must live with him until you marry or die. I’m sure it’s partly why so many want to marry their kids off young and start popping out babies. Because then they are stuck. 

[SPHASH]

18 hours ago, theologygeek said:

It's not just you.  That's the first thing I thought of too.  I didn't say anything because I thought it was just me.  The choice of words was kind of odd.  Like of course she's there, where did you think she was, on the moon???  It struck me as either they told her not to go and she said too bad, I'm going, or she took off and no one knew where she was.  

I so hope that was the case!  Steve said "Anna you can't go back to ABC" and Anna was like "fuck you I'm outta here" and took off.  Once Anna graduates I'm sure she will have connections from ABC or the church that will help her find a job, place to live etc.  And maybe the siblings will help her with the exception of Chris cuz he is way too uptight.

This may be why Steve is becoming more unhinged in his Seriously emails.

[zimona]

19 hours ago, Bethy said:

But this type of fundie culture doesn't really allow for adulthood without marriage. Do you really think every one of the SAHDs in this movement are sitting at home because they have zero desire to launch out in their own? Either through fear of the scary outside world, fear of the consequences ("God will strike you down if you go against our wishes!") or withholding of documentation as in the case of Alecia Pennington, many fundie kids are trapped at home even though legally they are adults and the parents can't actually keep them there. Anna may be 30 but she's still a child in the eyes of many in fundie/Gothard circles, and it seems that more specifically in the Gothard movement, there's an expectation of obedience even after an adult child marries and starts a family of their own.

In short, if you're raised truly believing God will strike you dead of you dishonor your parents, it doesn't matter that you're a legal adult.

Things have changed considerably over the last few years: Jesse and Anna moved into a flat and didn't get pregnant right away. Sarah's married, after moving out by herself and seems happier than we've ever seen her. Mary's married and hopefully completing college online. If Steve was really throwing a fit about Anna returning to college, I would hope that Anna would have all the support you could think of from Sarah, Mary and Jesse. Also, I think this battle has been already fought when Anna and Mary left for ABC in the first place. Steve has already lost his grip over his family.

Anna might still be susceptible to Steve's manipulations. But at the same time she's had more than just a taste of freedom, fun and friendship outside the immediate family bubble. And I bet she's not willing to sacrifice that for Steve's neuroticism.

Edited September 2, 2023 by zimona

[Bethy]

19 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Good points but Anna and Mary had already "flown the coop" quite successfully.

They have had 2 years of a successful and enjoyable -- dare I say FUN? -- college career, complete with a wide circle of friends. To me, it's way beyond the point at which Steve & Teri would have any leverage over an adult Anna except, perhaps, for finances.

Yes, but that departure may have HAD Steve's blessing specifically because the girls would be together, attached at the hip in that scary higher-education outside world for safety and accountability purposes. When Mary decided to get hitched and [hopefully] finish her degree online, Steve could have withdrawn his blessing on Anna continuing on campus alone, and she would have been expected to obey just like she would've as a young child. That's the level of control a fundie dad often expects to have. As @zimona said above, Anna would probably have a lot of support, maybe including financial support, from Sarah, Mary, and Jesse (and I might also include John and Chelsy, since Chelsy has been pretty outspoken against Steve's philosophies on some things, and Joseph who has also put some distance between himself and Steve's practices) but it could be a little scary for her to step out into the world alone, and just because Steve gave his blessing for her to go to ABC two years ago doesn't mean he gave blanket approval for any departure she wanted to make at any future point. 

 

My parents had just enough Gothard influence to be a little scary on some things, and I was scared to death to do even inconsequential things like go to a friend's house if they didn't want me to (and, true to Gothard form, they disapproved of all of my friends) because I really feared that God would either strike me dead to punish me, or strike one of my parents dead to "make me sorry," just for going to a friend's house to literally play board games. I can't imagine the level of panic I would've felt if I'd attended a college they didn't approve of. So if she is there without Steve's blessing, I hope she has a good support system/possibly counseling in place to help her be confident navigating adulthood without a husband or father in the room to dictate her every move, and to do so without fear. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

More fun at college. 

[Jana814]

So glad that Anna is having fun. 

[HereticHick]

When FJ worlds collide: ABC played Crown College of the Bible in soccer last week.

There is an instagram account run by an ABC freshman that rates the cafeteria food: https://www.instagram.com/foodiesofabc

[MamaJunebug]

Anna looks so pretty and so happy!

You'd almost never guess what her first 3 decades of life were like. 
 

You go, girls! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

When FJ worlds collide: ABC played Crown College of the Bible in soccer last week.

There is an instagram account run by an ABC freshman that rates the cafeteria food: https://www.instagram.com/foodiesofabc

Yes! They always play each other. I wonder if they are rivals since they seem to play against one another every year. And they are both small Christian colleges. Like I’ve said before, ABC is better in my opinion. 

[fundiewatch]

This is hilarious. 
 

Spoiler

 

 

[socalrules]

I don’t understand why people think Steve is still pulling the strings. Nearly everything in that family is the opposite of what it was three years ago. People seem to want Steve to still be in control but the facts reflect the opposite. I never thought he would keep Anna from finishing college on campus. If he didn’t want her there, neither she nor Mary would have ever gone in the first place. Let’s not even take into account they were going to college online prior to living on campus.

I think Steve went hands off years ago. Something changed him. Maybe it was the new church, a health scare or just a come to Jesus moment. All those changes don’t occur if he wanted to continue to maintain total control. His children, especially the girls, were not raised to deviate from him control and I don’t think they would all have suddenly made decisions on their own to do the opposite of what their father wanted. Plus, people in the fundy lifestyle has a lot of fear when they finally start doing things contrary to how they were raised and afraid of God’s wrath.  Anna and Mary did not seem frighted in the first pictures of them at college. They looked naturally happy and self-assured. Way more than they did in family pictures. I think they were there with the blessing of their parents and were never going against their father’s wishes. 

[Hellothere]

I agree, SocialRules, that all 3 girls seemed very comfortable leaving the nest and controlling home environment behind.  May

be they were leaning that way long before, but just keep "in line" and abiding by parents overly stringent rules (clothing, etc.) because it just made things easier while they were living the home?   But i don't think Steve had a real "come to Jesus" moment because his now infrequent newsletters are still fire and brimstone, overly critical, and very out of touch - prime example is his recent one about how awful it is to have"fun"  (while his daughters are out there having fun).  It's like he has doubled down on the crazy and is not in synch with what the local church his wife and other family members are going to.  Do you think he actually attends services and/or participates in any of the church activities?

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, Hellothere said:

I agree, SocialRules, that all 3 girls seemed very comfortable leaving the nest and controlling home environment behind.  May

be they were leaning that way long before, but just keep "in line" and abiding by parents overly stringent rules (clothing, etc.) because it just made things easier while they were living the home?   But i don't think Steve had a real "come to Jesus" moment because his now infrequent newsletters are still fire and brimstone, overly critical, and very out of touch - prime example is his recent one about how awful it is to have"fun"  (while his daughters are out there having fun).  It's like he has doubled down on the crazy and is not in synch with what the local church his wife and other family members are going to.  Do you think he actually attends services and/or participates in any of the church activities?

I think he attends. I think it’s so completely ingrained in him that he must do some sort of church service on Sundays that he does go. I bet he sits there and judges the pastor most of the time. Thinking about how he would do things differently. I have a feeling judging is his favorite past time. 

[theologygeek]

14 hours ago, socalrules said:

I don’t understand why people think Steve is still pulling the strings. Nearly everything in that family is the opposite of what it was three years ago. People seem to want Steve to still be in control but the facts reflect the opposite. I never thought he would keep Anna from finishing college on campus. If he didn’t want her there, neither she nor Mary would have ever gone in the first place. Let’s not even take into account they were going to college online prior to living on campus.

I think Steve went hands off years ago. Something changed him. Maybe it was the new church, a health scare or just a come to Jesus moment. All those changes don’t occur if he wanted to continue to maintain total control. His children, especially the girls, were not raised to deviate from him control and I don’t think they would all have suddenly made decisions on their own to do the opposite of what their father wanted. Plus, people in the fundy lifestyle has a lot of fear when they finally start doing things contrary to how they were raised and afraid of God’s wrath.  Anna and Mary did not seem frighted in the first pictures of them at college. They looked naturally happy and self-assured. Way more than they did in family pictures. I think they were there with the blessing of their parents and were never going against their father’s wishes. 

I disagree.  One of the blog posts had said that living home was their choice.  Anna's not going to college post also made it seem like that was her choice.  I think the mind games he played on them backfired on him, and it started when they went to the new church.  The last blog post says it without saying it.  "The pastor talked them into it.  This crap wasn't my idea."  Nathan, Chris, John, and the adult children go/went to that church.  Steve's opinion means nothing any more.  It's the pastor's opinion they listen to, and that church is team ABC.  Out of all the colleges they could have gone to, and even a free community college, they chose the college that the church is the #1 fan of.  That is very telling.  But the biggest reason why I disagree is because his dad's corners are the opposite of what his kids are doing right now.   He's still playing mind games on them with the dad's corners.  He knows he has lost control because those articles show that he has lost his mind.  They're ignoring what he says now.  

[theologygeek]

13 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think he attends. I think it’s so completely ingrained in him that he must do some sort of church service on Sundays that he does go. I bet he sits there and judges the pastor most of the time. Thinking about how he would do things differently. I have a feeling judging is his favorite past time. 

I agree.  Notice how his name is never in the bulletin for volunteering for anything.  I didn't think he was one to volunteer at church.  He likes to play pastor and be in charge.  He isn't going to take orders from anyone.  He likes to give the orders.  Steve is what I like to call the peanut gallery.  Criticizes from the sidelines.  

[Jana814]

I have always thought that the reason Steve Maxwell started a church at the assistant living place was so he could control everything. If he was in a regular church he couldn’t because the pastor was in charge. He probably hates going to another church because he’s not in charge. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Jana814

[Xan]

2 hours ago, theologygeek said:

He's still playing mind games on them with the dad's corners.  He knows he has lost control because those articles show that he has lost his mind.  They're ignoring what he says now.  

I agree.  Control freaks don't just stop being control freaks.

[hoipolloi]

20 hours ago, socalrules said:

Nearly everything in that family is the opposite of what it was three years ago.

True, but why then is Steve still pumping out all of the hate & judgement in his weekly columns? Why havenʻt we read one word from him about their daughtersʻ achievements and marriages?

Could Steve be like some in fundie-world who privately do not practice what they publicly tell others to do? Perhaps, but there is nothing to indicate that he doesn't believe what he's saying.