Michael and Brandon 7: Lying Low in Batesville

[LillyP]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:09 AM, FluffySnowball said:

There's an overwhelming consensus among paediatricians and child psychologists and the potentially damaging effects of sleep training have been scientifically examined and proven. So while you appear to have chosen otherwise for your children, and while such a choice is valid if you think that's what's best for your family, the scientific facts remain, plain and simple. I understand it's easier to try to rationalise medical opinions away and of course not every mistake parents make affects every child the same way and/or traumatises every child. However, I take issue with spreading misinformation. Also, a child saying or not saying "I love you" gives absolutely zero clues about whether said child is traumatised or not, so that's just a weird thing to say within this context. 

Yes, I know I might come across quite harshly, but I cannot sugar-coat my opinion in this instance. 

 I would truly love to see the actual scientific published studies. Because I've done a considerable amount of reading of journals, articles, and resources not just US based from from the UK and Australia....and I've yet to find one that says sleep training has psychologically damaging effects. To the contrary, pretty much every study and article I've found shows that researchers who have followed the same group of children over a span of 6 years found no difference in their emotional or psychological wellbeing between kids who were sleep trained and those who weren't. If anything, those who were sleep trained actually were slightly better because they were getting the appropriate amounts of good sleep that are developmentally needed.   Sleep training has turned into some triggering buzzword because people hear it and think "oh they just leave their baby in a dark room to cry alone all night". There are SO MANY different methods of gentle sleep training. Here's the thing, at the end of the day every parent needs to do what they feel is best for their child/family. Personally I'm 10000% against co-sleeping. I know two people who have lost children to co-sleeping and I don't think it's safe even in the most careful of situations...but if that is what works for another family that is their business. 

All I can say is that I was a fence sitter when it came to sleep training my first. I wasn't sure it was right for us, but before sleep training my oldest I had a lengthy discussion with our pediatrician who gave me great advice and was all for it. I can say without a doubt that my child was a happier child after sleep training. He had a consistent routine, was getting quality sleep from 7pm - (mostly) 7am....and that in turn made him well rested and less fussy. He's now 6 and every step of the way has been a breeze when it comes to his sleep. 

[GreenBeans]

And then there are children like my son who simply do not need as much sleep as others their age. No issues falling asleep, usually sleeps through the night just fine, BUT only for 9 to 9.5 hours at 3 years old. He goes to sleep between 7.30pm and 8.30pm, and wakes up between 5am and 6am. It is the way it is. He is well rested, we’ve talked to our pediatrician about it (because most websites etc say that 11-12 hours are normal for his age), but apparently there is a very wide range of what constitutes a healthy amount of sleep, and it varies between children.

It can be tough because it means there is basically no child-free time left in the evenings. Or well, technically there is, but when you know you’ll be up at 5 the next morning, you just don’t stay up until midnight.

 

[SoSoNosy]

My son stopped taking a nap when he was 3, because if he took one we ended up watching reruns of old television shows until nearly midnight.  Momma couldn't handle that when big sister needed to get up and go to school.

[Rosie]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:04 AM, LillyP said:

 I would truly love to see the actual scientific published studies. Because I've done a considerable amount of reading of journals, articles, and resources not just US based from from the UK and Australia....and I've yet to find one that says sleep training has psychologically damaging effects. To the contrary, pretty much every study and article I've found shows that researchers who have followed the same group of children over a span of 6 years found no difference in their emotional or psychological wellbeing between kids who were sleep trained and those who weren't. If anything, those who were sleep trained actually were slightly better because they were getting the appropriate amounts of good sleep that are developmentally needed.   Sleep training has turned into some triggering buzzword because people hear it and think "oh they just leave their baby in a dark room to cry alone all night". There are SO MANY different methods of gentle sleep training. Here's the thing, at the end of the day every parent needs to do what they feel is best for their child/family. Personally I'm 10000% against co-sleeping. I know two people who have lost children to co-sleeping and I don't think it's safe even in the most careful of situations...but if that is what works for another family that is their business. 

All I can say is that I was a fence sitter when it came to sleep training my first. I wasn't sure it was right for us, but before sleep training my oldest I had a lengthy discussion with our pediatrician who gave me great advice and was all for it. I can say without a doubt that my child was a happier child after sleep training. He had a consistent routine, was getting quality sleep from 7pm - (mostly) 7am....and that in turn made him well rested and less fussy. He's now 6 and every step of the way has been a breeze when it comes to his sleep. 

+1

There are health problems associated with children getting insufficient sleep, and/or poor quality sleep.  A chronically sleep deprived child is an unhealthy child, just as a child who eats poorly is unhealthy.

See e.g., marcweissbluth.com.

 

 

 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

We unsuccessfully tried sleep training with my daughter using several different methods over about a year but once she could vault out of the crib it was over.  She is very strong willed and can be difficult to get to sleep, although she sleeps like the dead once out.  I did a ton of research and talked to the pediatrician in desperation to TRY AND GET HER TO SLEEP ALONE.  Nope, she still sleeps in my arms every night at the age of 3.  One day she won't want to so I've made my peace with it.

[SassyPants]

15 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

We unsuccessfully tried sleep training with my daughter using several different methods over about a year but once she could vault out of the crib it was over.  She is very strong willed and can be difficult to get to sleep, although she sleeps like the dead once out.  I did a ton of research and talked to the pediatrician in desperation to TRY AND GET HER TO SLEEP ALONE.  Nope, she still sleeps in my arms every night at the age of 3.  One day she won't want to so I've made my peace with it.

My GD turned 10 on Monday and is just starting to sleep in her own bed and room. Yes, she is an only child.

[Adrienne83]

4 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

We unsuccessfully tried sleep training with my daughter using several different methods over about a year but once she could vault out of the crib it was over.  She is very strong willed and can be difficult to get to sleep, although she sleeps like the dead once out.  I did a ton of research and talked to the pediatrician in desperation to TRY AND GET HER TO SLEEP ALONE.  Nope, she still sleeps in my arms every night at the age of 3.  One day she won't want to so I've made my peace with it.

My oldest is 11 and a half and he still needs me to sleep with him. His brother sleeps in the room with him, and he’s just happy I’m in the room. Thankfully older boy has a full size bed, and I just go to sleep with them. Younger in his own bed. When I wake up to pee, then I go in my own bed, lol. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I ended up in my mom’s bed a lot when I was a kid. I always started out in my bed but ended up in hers because I was very easily scared as a kid. I had a wild imagination and sometimes it went crazy if there was a noise or strange looking shadow in my room. I’m sure it lasted until I was 10 or 11. But she had restless legs in bed so that actually started getting so annoying, lol. And she had the nerve to complain about my kicking in my sleep! She was worse.

[SassyPants]

My son slept in our room for years, maybe until he was 12. He would come in during the night with his pillow and blanket and camp out on the carpeted floor.

[Guanabana]

I was raised by elderly grandparents, but my bio mother lived with us until I was eight years old. She would take me out of my crib to sleep with her because she was afraid to sleep on her own. No matter how much Mami & Papi pleaded she chose to be selfish. When she married and moved away they were stuck with an 8 year old full of anxiety and fear, that couldn’t sleep on her own.

Our first born can count the times he slept with us in one hand. Our daughter, adopted from China, was anxious and slept with us even after I had major abdominal surgery. She kicked me so many times on my open wound, but I just knew it was what she needed. She started sleeping on her own at age 3. She is now 17, and fell asleep last night between us. She does that occasionally. Both sleep with the lights off, something I can’t do as an adult. 

PLEASE. don’t bring your kid to bed because of your issues. It leaves them with life long maladaptive issues. 

[SassyPants]

31 minutes ago, Guanabana said:

I was raised by elderly grandparents, but my bio mother lived with us until I was eight years old. She would take me out of my crib to sleep with her because she was afraid to sleep on her own. No matter how much Mami & Papi pleaded she chose to be selfish. When she married and moved away they were stuck with an 8 year old full of anxiety and fear, that couldn’t sleep on her own.

Our first born can count the times he slept with us in one hand. Our daughter, adopted from China, was anxious and slept with us even after I had major abdominal surgery. She kicked me so many times on my open wound, but I just knew it was what she needed. She started sleeping on her own at age 3. She is now 17, and fell asleep last night between us. She does that occasionally. Both sleep with the lights off, something I can’t do as an adult. 

PLEASE. don’t bring your kid to bed because of your issues. It leaves them with life long maladaptive issues. 

I am confused with your last sentence^. Has anyone here indicated that their child sleeps with them because of a parental need? Family co-sleeping is cultural and perfectly the norm in some countries-

[GuineaPigCourtship]

My daughter is a high contact kid in all aspects of her life, but she is also very confident and not even slightly risk-adverse.  At 3 she is still on our laps, asking to be carried, but also running off to climb that fun landscaping rock or trying to jump from the top of the slide.  I think finding the balance between nurturing their needs and supporting their independence is important, and very difference kid to kid.  I was not at all like her when I was her age.

[Guanabana]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:00 PM, SassyPants said:

I am confused with your last sentence^. Has anyone here indicated that their child sleeps with them because of a parental need? Family co-sleeping is cultural and perfectly the norm in some countries-

I was only referring to myself.  Obviously my daughter’s needs came before my own and we sucked it up and co-slept until she was ready. But man, those kicks were something else. 😂

[nelliebelle1197]

On 4/7/2024 at 10:59 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Michael is extremely close with her family. She will bring a child around them constantly. Even if Michael isn’t, her family is. 

Late again here, but my best friend is from a stone's throw from the Bates. Her sister adopted a Haitian child. The racism is real and it is not just the family the child will deal with. There have been racists incidences at her expensive private religious school and random stuff with cops, including a near arrest when she accidentally tripped the alarm at her dad's office, a building he owns which is covered in photos of her. Cops refused to believe her dad owned the building.