Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[Hane]

I’m still ticked off at Anderson Cooper (and his research staff) for not having done a deep enough dive into Michael Pearl to find the footage of him gleefully whipping a doll as part of a loathsome “seminar” on child abuse.

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

For all who are saying "I hope they talk about XYZ," I think it is important to temper expectations a bit.  Most people have no clue who the people are we talk about on Free Jinger EXCEPT the Duggars.  Even the Bates are pretty obscure to the average American.  This show was not created to be a TV version of Free Jinger, rather it was created to drive viewership to Amazon Prime.  Therefore, I expect we will see a big focus on the Duggars and their cult/cult leader (because that is what will hook the average viewer) and very little of other families we discuss here.  Perhaps disappointing to the FJ audience, but it will open the eyes of a lot of the general public and that is a good thing in my opinion.  And even if that is all it is, I can't wait!!!

And this is perfect. JB Duggar has always thought he was the greatest, best, above all others and the super impregnater (sp). He always wanted control (“I will not allow that”) everyone and everything and relished being in the spotlight. WELL, now he gets to be in the spotlight for the negative elements too. 

And Gothard was known to be not above board with the teen girls, right. Well, he’s the root of the misogyny and all the other crap that went with his designated principles and made up tenets.

[lumpentheologie]

9 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And this is perfect. JB Duggar has always thought he was the greatest, best, above all others and the super impregnater (sp). He always wanted control (“I will not allow that”) everyone and everything and relished being in the spotlight. WELL, now he gets to be in the spotlight for the negative elements too. 

Exactly! JB wanting fame and putting his family in the spotlight will lead to his family’s fame taking down the whole movement. Such sweet justice. 

[JDuggs]

I’m sure I was directed to this article here years ago, but it’s a good one for people who want some additional background before the documentary comes out.

https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/july-2016/institute-in-basic-life-principles-hinsdale/

 

[caitrona]

21 hours ago, Baxter said:

I wonder if Jill will only criticize Jim Bob or if she will also say negative things about Michelle. My understanding is that her relationship with Jim Bob is very strained but somewhat better with Michelle. Michelle is equally responsible for how Jill was raised. But I think it would be easy perhaps for Jill to go after Jim Bob only because he was supposed to be the leader of the family. 

I have a feeling that it will focus on JB -- looking at the docu image Michelle's face is covered with a smiley face while JB's isn't.  

I think it's also going to be easier for Jill to focus on JB because of how horrible he was during the trial.  For all intents & purposes, Jill's baby (Joy) was hurt and JimBob didn't care. I think his protection of Josh above all the rest, damn the consequences, was what really severed any sort of protective feelings she may have had for her father.  She can still see Michelle as a victim of JB & Gothard's manipulation (for now at least).  

[front hugs > duggs]

I think another significant difference between Jinger speaking out and Jill is the format? I guess : Jinger wrote a book, and while I understand that editors/publishers/co-writers etc. would have input and can help remove/restructure content, what Jinger shared was largely within her control. Jill is a mere participant in this documentary and has zero control over what is shared throughout the course of the episodes other than her own segments; she has no ownership here.

[shesinsane]

1 hour ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I think another significant difference between Jinger speaking out and Jill is the format? I guess : Jinger wrote a book, and while I understand that editors/publishers/co-writers etc. would have input and can help remove/restructure content, what Jinger shared was largely within her control. Jill is a mere participant in this documentary and has zero control over what is shared throughout the course of the episodes other than her own segments; she has no ownership here.

I haven't read Jinger's book but a lot of people who have read it suggested that Jinger's book is one long advertisement for MacArthur's church, rather than her own story of "detangling".

I did participate in making some documentaries back in the 20th century and while it's unlikely Jill had editing control over her segments, it's very likely that before any interviews were conducted, she and the documentary makers discussed what topics and questions would be discussed and which topics, if any, were off limits.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I think another significant difference between Jinger speaking out and Jill is the format? I guess : Jinger wrote a book, and while I understand that editors/publishers/co-writers etc. would have input and can help remove/restructure content, what Jinger shared was largely within her control. Jill is a mere participant in this documentary and has zero control over what is shared throughout the course of the episodes other than her own segments; she has no ownership here.

Jinger’s book was co-written with the PR guy for McArthur’s church. That book was not all Jinger. It was heavily influenced by Mac’s church. 

[Cam]

5 hours ago, shesinsane said:

I did participate in making some documentaries back in the 20th century and while it's unlikely Jill had editing control over her segments, it's very likely that before any interviews were conducted, she and the documentary makers discussed what topics and questions would be discussed and which topics, if any, were off limits.

It seems to me if Jill said anything bad about either of her parents for the doc, we’d have heard a snippet of it in the trailer for sheer shock value and to attract more viewers. But the trailer only seems to have her speaking about the IBLP. So I can’t get my hopes up too much about what she might actually say. However, it does make me think Jill has a book in her wanting to be written and maybe she’s holding back for such a time to reveal more secrets when/if she does. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

41 minutes ago, Cam said:

It seems to me if Jill said anything bad about either of her parents for the doc, we’d have heard a snippet of it in the trailer for sheer shock value and to attract more viewers. But the trailer only seems to have her speaking about the IBLP. So I can’t get my hopes up too much about what she might actually say. However, it does make me think Jill has a book in her wanting to be written and maybe she’s holding back for such a time to reveal more secrets when/if she does. 

I agree except I doubt Jill will write a true tell all. Derrick might want to. But I don't think Jill wants the nuclear option. 

Wonder what Joy thinks? I feel like Austin is a the past is past sort of guy. Maybe I'm wrong but he just seems like "yep that sucked. You wanna dwell on it or you wanna enjoy the rest of your life"

[Columbia]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Jinger’s book was co-written with the PR guy for McArthur’s church. That book was not all Jinger. It was heavily influenced by Mac’s church. 

It also conveniently came out right before Christianity Today ran an article about Eileen Grey. That book is all about protecting JMac’s honor (and maybe getting Jeremy enough position in the church that he can mishandle an abuse case there some day.)

[Cam]

7 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I agree except I doubt Jill will write a true tell all. Derrick might want to. But I don't think Jill wants the nuclear option. 

Wonder what Joy thinks? I feel like Austin is a the past is past sort of guy. Maybe I'm wrong but he just seems like "yep that sucked. You wanna dwell on it or you wanna enjoy the rest of your life"

I think it’s definitely a possibility that Austin has “the past is the past” mentality. I don’t see Joy ever rocking the boat with a tell all or even “tell some” book. 

Also agree that Jill wouldn’t necessarily go all nuclear with a book but may possibly limit what she says in the documentary so as to still have a some bombshells left to reveal should she decide to go the book route. 

[nelliebelle1197]

21 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

But child/blanket training is the main reason the Pearls are important/horrible/interesting. That’s what they should talk about! If the goal is to expose the dangers of this brand of fundamentalism, it’s an excellent choice. I’m not sure how that’s an ‘only’?

There is so much more! The sovcit stuff, the attitudes with sex, the weird marriages of the kids, the family cult he developed!

[JermajestyDuggar]

The Pearls did used to throw those “Shindigs” where plenty of young Pearl loving fundies met and later got married. Just like Big Sandy. 

[nellautumngirl]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:42 PM, Baxter said:

I wonder if Jill will only criticize Jim Bob or if she will also say negative things about Michelle. My understanding is that her relationship with Jim Bob is very strained but somewhat better with Michelle. Michelle is equally responsible for how Jill was raised. But I think it would be easy perhaps for Jill to go after Jim Bob only because he was supposed to be the leader of the family. 

And that way, she still has one "good" parent she can love and have a relationship with I think that's somewhat common for abused children.

[Becky]

Looking forward to this!  I hope they point out some of the high-profile people who have supported this shite, like Mike Huckabee.  

[Expectopatronus]

18 hours ago, caitrona said:

I have a feeling that it will focus on JB -- looking at the docu image Michelle's face is covered with a smiley face while JB's isn't.  

I think it's also going to be easier for Jill to focus on JB because of how horrible he was during the trial.  For all intents & purposes, Jill's baby (Joy) was hurt and JimBob didn't care. I think his protection of Josh above all the rest, damn the consequences, was what really severed any sort of protective feelings she may have had for her father.  She can still see Michelle as a victim of JB & Gothard's manipulation (for now at least).  

I’m not sure that JB even intended to protect Josh per se. I think he wanted to protect the brand. No matter what my kid had done, I would never send them to live in a shack, dig a pond and have no contact for months with their family. 

[lumpentheologie]

2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

There is so much more! The sovcit stuff, the attitudes with sex, the weird marriages of the kids, the family cult he developed!

Yes. And this stuff is interesting, as a psychological study or just as a freak show. But it’s not important the way blanket training is, it hasn’t had anything like a similar harmful impact on society. 

There’s often a tension here on FJ between the need to follow these people to keep a conversation going about the harm they do to society and the morbid fascination we have with the freak show, which is strong.

But the freak show aspect has been shown already, over and over on TLC. What we haven’t had, and what society desperately needs, is a documentary that makes a clear and convincing argument about the harm these people have done and are continuing to do. 

Continuing to go back to the harm part on here has often felt like screaming into a void, over and over for more than a decade. But that could all change due this new Amazon show. If that’s a disappointment to people who would rather have more freak show coverage, well, maybe those people should reconsider their priorities. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Are the servers and mods prepared for next week’s wave of new members? Good luck, y’all!

[KWLand]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The Pearls did used to throw those “Shindigs” where plenty of young Pearl loving fundies met and later got married. Just like Big Sandy. 

I think the Rods went to at least one, if not two.  I’m really hoping this doesn’t bring more people to the Pearls side.  Shoshanna looks good on the outside and praises her parents, especially her dad, so she’s a good (well bad but good as in can make the Pearl brand look appealing to those who want to feel as if they belong) spokesperson for that brand.

there used to be a website for ex fundies but I can’t remember the name—no longer quivering- maybe?  I said it before but I really hope they give resources t for those who want out or got out.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

You all are far more optimistic than I am. The best case I expect is a perhaps very subtle shift in some moderate-right people's perception.

People are so locked into their beliefs right now- I can't imagine any of the non-moderate right watching it for anything other than persecution vibes. 

I think any of the "politicians" revealed will probably enjoy the attention and be glad for it.  To be persecuted by the "left" is a political godsend to those sorts of right wing politicians.

If it has a sort of "dangers of homeschooling" vibe I think that will fall especially flat. Homeschooling and private xtian schools have a very positive connotation in the right. Many people are wanna be homeschoolers, at least in theory, but "settle" for xtian private school.

None of those people I would expect to watch this either. 

We'll see what exact points the documentary focuses on. It will make a big difference on the impact. Although, I don't think it will make that much impact either way.

The right has a whole apparatus and expectation of their voters to deny/fake news/declare persecution. Their voters are ready and waiting for those talking points.

The left doesn't have a good system for taking info like this and stirring up their voters.  Or even using info like this to get independents or moderates to lean left. So I dont think the left will get much political capital from.it.

 

[waltraute]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

Also agree that Jill wouldn’t necessarily go all nuclear with a book but may possibly limit what she says in the documentary so as to still have a some bombshells left to reveal should she decide to go the book route. 

I actually think this would be her wisest decision. This documentary isn't going to make her significant money, if any. After all she's been through, she deserves to tell her story in a way that benefits her the most financially. Even if she never uses the option, having it available to her, I think would be a good idea. Keep some of those bombshell secrets to yourself Jill and monetize them when you are ready. 

Her entire childhood was engineered to put money into her dad's wallet and gain adoration from fundamentalist hangers-on. It would be sweet justice for her to make some coin tearing that narrative apart.

[fluffernutter]

Article on CNN this morning: "New Duggar docuseries ‘exposes the truth’ about the reality family." After years of their smugness, now to be a headline like that. It didn't say "New docuseries about cult IBLP, of which the Duggars belonged to...."  I am all for it. It is in my calendar and there will be much wine involved. 👍

[Caroline]

1 hour ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

The left doesn't have a good system for taking info like this and stirring up their voters.  Or even using info like this to get independents or moderates to lean left. So I dont think the left will get much political capital from.it.

I just hope that my friends and family who have never understood my obsession with these extremists and my fears about their political aspirations will finally understand what I've been talking about for the last ten years. But they'll have to watch it to find out. Most people I know aren't particularly religious and mistakingly think that those fundies are harmless because most of us were raised to not judge / be interested in other people's beliefs. And like most of the people I know, I was raised in a main line religion that didn't to have cult like appeal. We weren't trying to get people to join our church or 'save' them in any way.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

3 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

I’m not sure that JB even intended to protect Josh per se. I think he wanted to protect the brand. 

Agree. I'll bet he barely has any communication with Josh now. And the brand = money, which is all JB has ever cared about. "For the love of money is the root of all evil" must have been a translation error on the part of King James, eh Boobie?

I've always been far more interested in Michelle's (and I mentally just put a little heart over the "i") thoughts on everything. From what they put the girls through to Josh's crimes. Does she have any inkling now of what a piece of crap parent and person her wonderful husband is? Is she capable of grasping the level of her own complicity? We'll probably never know.

I'll watch the documentary, but admit my expectations are low. Partly because I found the LuLaRoe film pretty tame and partly because it seems only Jill and Amy (and maybe Deanna?) are the contributing family members. I'm not sure Jill has fully processed everything yet, and F'Amy is, well, F'Amy.