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Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary


CanadianMamam

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16 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

That is what I heard.too and that JB comes off even worse than Josh. The ultimate villain. 

They've both go their own brands...of villainy, in my view. Like, not to get too Dungeons & Dragons about it, Jim Bob really has like...Lawful Evil Warlock energy in his villainy that Josh doesn't have. Not that Jim Bob is always lawful, obviously not, but he cares about the appearance of being so and using that system to his own evil advantages. He's got Warlock energy because he had a Patron (his version of the Christian God) to which he is very devoted but not because of love or worship the way a Cleric might be, but because he is interested in the power that Patron can give him. Almost all Warlocks have some sort of Pact made with a Patron -- usually high stakes, frequently their souls -- that has allowed them to Unlock that power. In the case of Jim Bob's Patron, he simply has to convince the rest of his family and supporters that the Patron is not only real but is exactly as Jim Bob says he is.

None of this is to say that Jim Bob is just a cartoon villain. It is to say that sometimes, these tropes are so on the nose that they can help frame and understand real evil and this framing makes Jim Bob make a lot of sense. Like, we wrote these stories because we knew people like this and...Jim Bob is people like this. You could use him as a fictional villain inspiration with very little editing and the themes would be...just like...right there. 

Josh has...something else going on and he certainly tried the Jim Bob path but he clearly didn't achieve it. 

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42 minutes ago, Antimony said:

They've both go their own brands...of villainy, in my view. Like, not to get too Dungeons & Dragons about it, Jim Bob really has like...Lawful Evil Warlock energy in his villainy that Josh doesn't have. Not that Jim Bob is always lawful, obviously not, but he cares about the appearance of being so and using that system to his own evil advantages. He's got Warlock energy because he had a Patron (his version of the Christian God) to which he is very devoted but not because of love or worship the way a Cleric might be, but because he is interested in the power that Patron can give him. Almost all Warlocks have some sort of Pact made with a Patron -- usually high stakes, frequently their souls -- that has allowed them to Unlock that power. In the case of Jim Bob's Patron, he simply has to convince the rest of his family and supporters that the Patron is not only real but is exactly as Jim Bob says he is.

None of this is to say that Jim Bob is just a cartoon villain. It is to say that sometimes, these tropes are so on the nose that they can help frame and understand real evil and this framing makes Jim Bob make a lot of sense. Like, we wrote these stories because we knew people like this and...Jim Bob is people like this. You could use him as a fictional villain inspiration with very little editing and the themes would be...just like...right there. 

Josh has...something else going on and he certainly tried the Jim Bob path but he clearly didn't achieve it. 

I'm laughing because the analogy is hilarious...and accurate.  Both are vile in different ways. I expect more anger will be thrown at JB in this moment in history because there has not been any accountability and there doesn't seem like any hope for accountability apart from public derision and shame. Josh is in prison and that tips the scales of justice in a way that have not (yet) happened for JB.  I mean, JB was seeking to defund evidenced-based treatment for juvenile sex offenders when he was a politician...at the same time that he was covering up for Josh. People should be angry. His vileness impacted other youth and families and survivors. These are not libertarian beliefs that JB wants the right to live his religion in peace. Rather, he wants the entire country to do things his way...just because.

Edited by noseybutt
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I wonder if this weekend’s Sunday sermons at IBLP churches are planning to address the upcoming documentary. Once it’s aired, will their be some public statement it puts out?

Edited by Cam
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1 hour ago, Cam said:

I wonder if this weekend’s Sunday sermons at IBLP churches are planning to address the upcoming documentary. Once it’s aired, will their be some public statement it puts out?

Does David Waller post his sermons? He's the one to watch. 

Edited by marmalade
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17 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I'm laughing because the analogy is hilarious...and accurate.  Both are vile in different ways. I expect more anger will be thrown at JB in this moment in history because there has not been any accountability and there doesn't seem like any hope for accountability apart from public derision and shame. Josh is in prison and that tips the scales of justice in a way that have not (yet) happened for JB.  I mean, JB was seeking to defund evidenced-based treatment for juvenile sex offenders when he was a politician...at the same time that he was covering up for Josh. People should be angry. His vileness impacted other youth and families and survivors. These are not libertarian beliefs that JB wants the right to live his religion in peace. Rather, he wants the entire country to do things his way...just because.

My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday at dinner. In terms of the far right and their BS legislative efforts, and despite their cries for small government…no, they don’t want a small government. They just want to use the government to put everyone in a small box that they can control. JB falls into this category. He wants to use the government to make rules that control the rest of us. And his behaviors and decisions are not Christlike at all. 

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There's a Daily Mail article out that starts off with an error.  IBLP is not a church.  It's what's known as a parachurch organization.  Churches of any denomination may choose to use its materials.  The churches that most of the IBLP participants known to us attend are IFB.  

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11 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

There's a Daily Mail article out that starts off with an error.  IBLP is not a church.  It's what's known as a parachurch organization.  Churches of any denomination may choose to use its materials.  The churches that most of the IBLP participants known to us attend are IFB.  

Reason #4,529,872 why it's truly the Daily Fail.

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23 hours ago, SassyPants said:

he far right and their BS legislative efforts, and despite their cries for small government…no, they don’t want a small government. They just want to use the government to put everyone in a small box that they can control.

Wow!  Perfect image.  I'm going to  borrow it.

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Aside from Jill and Jinger, how many of the Duggars are secretly gonna watch SHP: DFS? Will sisters view it by themselves without husbands? Or put the kids to bed, pop some popcorn and curl up with their significant other and binge watch? Will some brothers watch together? Will there be an awkward atmosphere among family members after it airs, knowing that the documentary reveals truths that they do their best to ignore? Would they ever actually discuss the documentary with one another?  Would JB and Meech watch it together, just to see what it says about them? Or will they say “it’s blasphemy!” and ignore it? Or just JB watch and report to the Mrs.?

What about Tontitown residents? Will there be viewing parties by those of them who don’t like the Duggars? How about members of their local church? Surely some of them want to find out how accurate the facts are laid out, and if there’s anything new they don’t know. 

If any preachers/ministers/reverends (or whatever they call the dominant white male leader) of their church do mention the show from the pulpit, I imagine they will declare it an attack by Satan and the outside world on the godly, full of lies and deceit, and that none of them should watch it. 

Edited by Cam
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I think the Duggar chidults may very well learn secrets about their family they didn’t know. 

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For the members who are on  instagram: check out tia's  account, you can call her a survivor. She already mentioned  the making of the  docu a long long time ago . I still feel this is the reason why they pulled the bates out of the air. Btw. They all knew this was coming  a long time ago. Jinger got her  book out well before the airing.  Conveniently,  so she could ride the wave early on so to speak. She also has interesting insights on tfdw and the pecans Screenshot_20230527_001843_Instagram.thumb.jpg.6a09751f722c13f2cd56da3452acb146.jpg

Edited by ven
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16 hours ago, ven said:

For the members who are on  instagram: check out tia's  account, you can call her a survivor. She already mentioned  the making of the  docu a long long time ago . I still feel this is the reason why they pulled the bates out of the air. Btw. They all knew this was coming  a long time ago. Jinger got her  book out well before the airing.  Conveniently,  so she could ride the wave early on so to speak. She also has interesting insights on tfdw and the pecans Screenshot_20230527_001843_Instagram.thumb.jpg.6a09751f722c13f2cd56da3452acb146.jpg

I think the Bates got pulled because of a combo of tr documentary and the George Floyd comment. I am not sure either would have been enough to get a whole season scrapped but together (and the George Floyd comment was weeks before the documentary was announced) it was too much. 

I really enjoy Tia's videos and her commentary.

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I bet people all-in at IBLP will not watch. I don't think Michelle will watch either. I could see Jim Bob or some of the other male leaders watching to kind of protect the brand or figure out how to respond. On the whole, though, the cult parameters are already set. It's very easy to say it's worldly persecution or satanic attack or a trial/temptation. I'm sure they will circulate bad reports about whomever is in the docuseries - it's the conservative Christian church playbook to discredit survivors - so they will be too immoral or too not-a-Christian anymore or too whatever to make them worth listening to. There will be reasons. 

The thing is, too, for the people deep inside, there won't be secrets. I mean, maybe they don't know all the specifics about the Duggars, but IBLP principles, Gothard's predatory behavior, things like the Pearls' teaching - they know it all already. So no surprises. They just will feel persecuted by the worldly people criticizing them.

I think maybe some people who are only newly on board to IBLP or not all the way in or adjacent may try and distance. I am most hopeful that some of the 20somethings who are still in it may watch on their own or secretly and begin to question. I hope it's really validating for all the kids who grew up in this and have religious trauma as adults.

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7 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

It's very easy to say it's worldly persecution or satanic attack or a trial/temptation. I'm sure they will circulate bad reports about whomever is in the docuseries - it's the conservative Christian church playbook to discredit survivors - so they will be too immoral or too not-a-Christian anymore or too whatever to make them worth listening to. There will be reasons…….

….I think maybe some people who are only newly on board to IBLP or not all the way in or adjacent may try and distance. I am most hopeful that some of the 20somethings who are still in it may watch on their own or secretly and begin to question. I hope it's really validating for all the kids who grew up in this and have religious trauma as adults.

Definitely agree that discrediting survivors is their church playbook, and I appreciate the reference.

I guess what I am getting at is that I think some IBLP leaders and followers will loudly proclaim the blasphemy of the documentary, admonishing others not to watch it, and then turn around and hypocritically view it in secret with some of them relishing the further outing of JB’s greed and manipulation to the mass public. Partaking in bit of schadenfreude, if you will.

Along with you, I hope the twenty-somethings (and younger if possible) will be able to secretly see the documentary and perhaps it will plant seeds of doubt that eventually take root, or confirm what they might already be thinking. At least give them food for thought.

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I wonder how this will affect Jill’s relationship with her siblings and parents.  Surely some of them already know how she feels, but to put it out there in such a public way could drive a major rift between her and other siblings. 

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22 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Great story. I hope this family keeps their children in public school. It also seems the parents are getting an education as well. 

This is a great story. For those who are not subscribers to the Washington Post, here is a gift link to the article:

https://wapo.st/45DlNn3

 

Edited by FiveAcres
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This article in the Washington Post is super interesting and features a lot of FJ old-timers, including the Duggars, the Pearls, and IBLP. It’s the story of parents who grew up heavily indoctrinated in Christian fundamentalism and chose differently for their children. This link is a gift link so it should work for anyone to read but if not I can copy/paste it! I specifically found it interesting that physical discipline a la TTUAC ended up being the thing that led them to question their upbringing.

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5 hours ago, gustava said:

I thought this section was... interesting.
 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.d890865a63362cf44df4aeee8e425118.png

VF and IBLP might be the fringe of the fringe among evangelical homeschooling in general, but they certainly were not fringe in Farris' world. He founded HSLDA, and HSLDA was hand in glove with VF for as long as it existed; they never did anything about DPIAT taking their email list when he left to found VF. Farris was present at one of VF's early presentations about college which spelled out that there's no need for girls to have higher education. There were Vision Forum ads on HSLDA's page. and DPIAT was promoting VF families signing up for HSLDA back in 2011. The "Tenants of Biblical Patriarchy" first popped up in 2007. Farris only started voicing his "concerns" about VF and DPIAT's patriarchy teachings after VF was long gone and no one could retaliate. He's seeing the homeschooling empire he so desperately wanted to lead crumble around him, and is now doing anything possible to back pedal. What a spineless little weasel.

ETA: If he really is so concerned about "the fringe of the fringe" in homeschooling circles, now would be a great time for Farris to start talking about the concerning homeschool curriculum coming out of Moscow, ID, with its super casual approach to slavery, and all the plagiarism, and the sexual abuse of students, and what not. I'm sure he won't sit on his hands while all that concerning patriarchy floats around this time.

Edited by Columbia
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I saw that article and came straight over.  So interesting!  I wonder how the reporters found the Beall parents?  It doesn't mention them as being involved in any other documentaries or such.  I am enjoying seeing this generation break free of some of the horrors they were taught.  And so interesting that it was corporal punishment that finally caused the rift.  Because what they both say is true - once you question one thing, you start to see how everything else could be wrong too.

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