Bates 32: More Weddings, More Babies

[rebeccawriter01]

3 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

Since Gil was the only one working and supporting all those people at one point, they probably got Earned Income Credit as well which would have boosted the refunds.    

There is a quote from one of the interviews on Nightline/ABC where he says he benefits financially from claiming all of his dependents. 

[rebeccawriter01]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:58 AM, rebeccawriter01 said:

There is a quote from one of the interviews on Nightline/ABC where he says he benefits financially from claiming all of his dependents. 

Found the quote: It was from a Primetime Nightline Episode series called My Extraordinary family. It's about a 32 minute profile on the family - much of the footage used in other profiles. If you find it, be warned the oldest Duggar boy makes an appearance to talk about marriage and purity. 

Juju Chang (host) voice over while kids shop at Goodwill and after Gil says God takes care of them and they don't take any assistance. - "Although they do take full advantage of the U.S. tax code."

Juju Chang interviewing Gil: You've got 18 tax deductions. (Filmed before 19 was born)

Gil: That's a wonderful thing. America is a great place to live. 

[JDuggs]

I’m not sure why it would be wrong for Gil and Kelly to claim all of their dependents and take any tax credits that they’re legally entitled to when they file their taxes. If they were intentionally going without health insurance, I have a problem with that. Like Mary Lou Retton. There’s no reason she shouldn’t have had health insurance.

[rebeccawriter01]

16 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

I’m not sure why it would be wrong for Gil and Kelly to claim all of their dependents and take any tax credits that they’re legally entitled to when they file their taxes. If they were intentionally going without health insurance, I have a problem with that. Like Mary Lou Retton. There’s no reason she shouldn’t have had health insurance.

They did not have health insurance when the children were young. I'm betting they do now. They used the ER as essentially a doctor with Gil saying that it didn't matter if you are rich or poor, the ER will give you the best quality of care. 

The full interview discusses the fact that he would not take subsidies and assistance that might have covered the children's healthcare. They used Dr. Vick because his clinic was sliding scale and Christian based. She brings up that he takes the tax credits. It wasn't accusing him of anything, just noting that while he was a small business owner and they were barely able to sustain things financially (borrowing from at least one son and more than likely his parents, etc.) that he essentially had no tax burden either. 

Again, not wrong, just interesting where they drew lines and how they viewed things. Free or subsidized healthcare for children (to a certain age), bad. Tax credits for having children, good. One could argue that Gil was more interested in those benefits that helped him rather than those that helped his children.

I, personally, have wondered if some of the health challenges (clotting disorders, Alyssa's heart, etc.) might have been picked up on earlier if Gil and Kelly had been more vigilant about preventative care and regular wellness checks than they were more about treat and street. 

[Kiki03910]

Welp, I have 24 more hours of the free UP TV freakshow. Any recommendations of episodes to watch?

[HeartsAFundie]

10 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

They did not have health insurance when the children were young. I'm betting they do now. They used the ER as essentially a doctor with Gil saying that it didn't matter if you are rich or poor, the ER will give you the best quality of care. 

The full interview discusses the fact that he would not take subsidies and assistance that might have covered the children's healthcare. They used Dr. Vick because his clinic was sliding scale and Christian based. She brings up that he takes the tax credits. It wasn't accusing him of anything, just noting that while he was a small business owner and they were barely able to sustain things financially (borrowing from at least one son and more than likely his parents, etc.) that he essentially had no tax burden either. 

Again, not wrong, just interesting where they drew lines and how they viewed things. Free or subsidized healthcare for children (to a certain age), bad. Tax credits for having children, good. One could argue that Gil was more interested in those benefits that helped him rather than those that helped his children.

I, personally, have wondered if some of the health challenges (clotting disorders, Alyssa's heart, etc.) might have been picked up on earlier if Gil and Kelly had been more vigilant about preventative care and regular wellness checks than they were more about treat and street. 

I know they used the ER as their personal PCP clinic, but I was unaware they openly declared not taking health care subsidies.  Because with all those dependents in relationship to Gil's income, they most definitely would have qualified for TennCare, Tennessee's Medicaid.  And if it's anything like MA's MassHealth, TennCare would require chosen PCPs for each family member for medical care coordination.  So, if they were all on TennCare, the health issues mentioned above certainly would have been picked up by the PCP and monitored by specialists.   Making them all better off in the long run.  

And if they did not receive any subsidies, does that mean they paid out-of-pocket for all these ER visits?  Because if they relied on free care to foot their bills, that's relying on a form of subsidy.  And what if the ER requested follow-up with a PCP or named specialist?  Did they just not go for a follow-up and simply rely on the Lord to make them all better?  Or did they just drop off copies of the ER paperwork to Dr. Vick for their records? 

Playing Russian Roulette with the health of your gifts and blessings from God makes perfect sense to me. /s  

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I know they used the ER as their personal PCP clinic, but I was unaware they openly declared not taking health care subsidies.  Because with all those dependents in relationship to Gil's income, they most definitely would have qualified for TennCare, Tennessee's Medicaid.  And if it's anything like MA's MassHealth, TennCare would require chosen PCPs for each family member for medical care coordination.  So, if they were all on TennCare, the health issues mentioned above certainly would have been picked up by the PCP and monitored by specialists.   Making them all better off in the long run.  

And if they did not receive any subsidies, does that mean they paid out-of-pocket for all these ER visits?  Because if they relied on free care to foot their bills, that's relying on a form of subsidy.  And what if the ER requested follow-up with a PCP or named specialist?  Did they just not go for a follow-up and simply rely on the Lord to make them all better?  Or did they just drop off copies of the ER paperwork to Dr. Vick for their records? 

Playing Russian Roulette with the health of your gifts and blessings from God makes perfect sense to me. /s  

From my understanding (based on what people in their area said of the family before shows and social media), Gil was known as thinking he was a good negotiator. Their dental care and orthodontics were traded for tree jobs. Even Dr. Vick cut more off the price because of getting free mentions of his practice on national television. While the last few children were born in the hospital, Dr. Vick and some of the nurses would work for free when a camera was around (hence the coverage on ABC being timed when it was). It cut back on the costs for childbirth. 

I don't know how or even if Gil paid the hospital bills for ER visits. I will say that the reputation Gil had around that area was as someone who didn't pay his bills (any of them). He owed quite a bit and would try to barter to cover them but not everyone needs a tree cut or something similar. My great-uncle owned a hardware store in Clinton. He told me before he died that he would rather close up for the day than sell to Gil Bates, as you always felt you were robbed afterward. 

When the Affordable Care Act became law, Gil and Kelly were always among those protesting the requirement of having insurance at that time. They claimed at one point in the Knoxville paper that insurance through the marketplace or things like medicaid forced women to go on birth control and recommended abortions. 

[candygirl200413]

@rebeccawriter01I reacted with a laugh because your grandpa's comment made me lol, and it makes prefect sense! a God fearing man not paying his bills!! 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

@rebeccawriter01I reacted with a laugh because your grandpa's comment made me lol, and it makes prefect sense! a God fearing man not paying his bills!! 

These are the same kind of “religious” folks who support DJ Trump- leaves me scratching my head every time I think about it. They are worried about collar bones, knees and pants on women, yet they support a known sexual abuser.

[dawn9476]

To those who follow Kat Bates on IG....the guy in her latest stories seems to obviously be her boyfriend. Do you get the impression that they are living together "in sin" in NYC? Because I do. I wonder what Kelly and Gil think of that. I wonder what her cousins think of her having that much freedom and not be shunned. Clearly her immediate family doesn't care since she shows them visiting her in those latest stories. That's Gil's brother Greg in that Costco pic, I think.  Greg is her dad.

Edited February 18 by dawn9476

[Kiki03910]

Did the reason for BUB being cancelled ever come out? Any theories from my lovely posters here?

[4boysmum]

As a parent, I cannot understand how you could *not* make health insurance for your children a priority.  But I don't know if it's necessarily true that having insurance and seeing a PCP regularly would automatically translate to their current health issues being detected early.  Admittedly, this hits home for me because I lost a child to an undiagnosed heart condition and have met a few parents with similar stories. You can, unfortunately, see your doctor regularly, do all the well child visits, etc. and still end up with stuff that goes undetected until it causes problems at a later date.  My son had a checkup two months before he died that raised no concerns.  And I really like our doctor;  I've never had any sense that he missed something he should have picked up on.

But that is absolutely no excuse for going without insurance and using the ER for primary care, which baffles me as a parent and frustrates me as the wife of a hospital worker who has done plenty of shifts in busy ERs.

[rebeccawriter01]

3 minutes ago, 4boysmum said:

As a parent, I cannot understand how you could *not* make health insurance for your children a priority.  But I don't know if it's necessarily true that having insurance and seeing a PCP regularly would automatically translate to their current health issues being detected early.  Admittedly, this hits home for me because I lost a child to an undiagnosed heart condition and have met a few parents with similar stories. You can, unfortunately, see your doctor regularly, do all the well child visits, etc. and still end up with stuff that goes undetected until it causes problems at a later date.  My son had a checkup two months before he died that raised no concerns.  And I really like our doctor;  I've never had any sense that he missed something he should have picked up on.

But that is absolutely no excuse for going without insurance and using the ER for primary care, which baffles me as a parent and frustrates me as the wife of a hospital worker who has done plenty of shifts in busy ERs.

I'm so sorry for your loss. And no, you're right, you can do everything right, and still things are undetected, missed, ignored, etc. I have often questioned that with all our scientific advancement why we can't have some sort of machine that scans us from head to toe to detect problems. My own condition went undiagnosed for quite a while because in part my age was too low at the time to consider it. When my doctor suspected it, insurance refused to pay for tests. I was lucky to have parents who helped financially and a job that understood. And I was lucky to have a doctor who was persistent.

I used Alyssa's heart issue as an example that if it did exist earlier, it was missed. But even more than that, I wondered at the time if she had ever been examined or tested for anything as a child or teen that wasn't in an ER.

But most notable is the clotting disorder. Erin was diagnosed with MTHFR rather early in the series. That among other things led to her using blood thinners during pregnancy. It was clearly a genetic issue that Kelly confirmed via social media with the claim that each of the girls would need to be tested. Pregnancy isn't the only time that particular mutation comes into play. It can be an issue with vision, as people with that mutation are more likely to develop glaucoma. People with that type of mutation can have additional complications during routine surgery. So there the Bateses sat with information that could be useful and did nothing with it. Tori and Carlin were tested when pregnant (Tori not until her second child) and were shocked by the diagnosis - if the show is to be believed on that. The fact that Kelly and Gil did not have those girls (under 18) lined up and getting blood tests for similar mutations is beyond me. 

[Kiki03910]

35 minutes ago, 4boysmum said:

As a parent, I cannot understand how you could *not* make health insurance for your children a priority.  But I don't know if it's necessarily true that having insurance and seeing a PCP regularly would automatically translate to their current health issues being detected early.  Admittedly, this hits home for me because I lost a child to an undiagnosed heart condition and have met a few parents with similar stories. You can, unfortunately, see your doctor regularly, do all the well child visits, etc. and still end up with stuff that goes undetected until it causes problems at a later date.  My son had a checkup two months before he died that raised no concerns.  And I really like our doctor;  I've never had any sense that he missed something he should have picked up on.

But that is absolutely no excuse for going without insurance and using the ER for primary care, which baffles me as a parent and frustrates me as the wife of a hospital worker who has done plenty of shifts in busy ERs.

Love and hugs to you. I'm so sorry you had to go through that loss.

[nokidsmom]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:59 AM, rebeccawriter01 said:

I don't know how or even if Gil paid the hospital bills for ER visits. I will say that the reputation Gil had around that area was as someone who didn't pay his bills (any of them). He owed quite a bit and would try to barter to cover them but not everyone needs a tree cut or something similar. My great-uncle owned a hardware store in Clinton. He told me before he died that he would rather close up for the day than sell to Gil Bates, as you always felt you were robbed afterward. 

After hearing Gil say he relied on the ER for healthcare, I wondered how he ever paid those bills.   Even with insurance, a copay for an ER visit is a lot higher IME.  Long suspected that not only doesn't he pay, his "cash only" philosophy might be more out of necessity anyway as his credit would be in the dumpster.

Interesting what your grandfather told you and he lived in the area.    I long suspected based on similar reports from posters here over the years had me convinced that some people will not do business with them if they can help it.  I even made a joke at one point that the shops on the street should put out a "we are closed" sign when the family is sighted in the vicinity. 

[Keys]

I wonder what they did for routine health visits, though? For instance, the emergency is not equipped to do things like routine childhood vaccinations, Pap tests, etc (nor should they be - as a healthcare worker it irks me that they were using it this way)

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, Keys said:

I wonder what they did for routine health visits, though? For instance, the emergency is not equipped to do things like routine childhood vaccinations, Pap tests, etc (nor should they be - as a healthcare worker it irks me that they were using it this way)

I doubt they did any routine visits, except for the dentist (Gothard girls need a perfect smile). But 19 children raised on the country, some of them helping cutting trees, no doubt they had many accidents that required emergency visits. I wonder if Addalee, who has some kind of hearing issue, went to regular medical appointments during early childhood, I guess not, because no insurance, no money and also because the way they raised the babies (Ezzo training, crowded noisy house, sistermoms, absent parents) made difficult to detect issues.

I even doubt that Kelly had proper medical attention for her pregnancies until the 16th. I know homebirths can be safe, but not when there are not previous tests and obstetrician visits and well... after that many births so close, there are more risks for sure. Kelly was very lucky 14 homebirths were fine (I think Addalee is #15). At least Michelle and Jill Rod are luckier and had regular medical appointments and hospital births. As Kelly is not a crunchy mom, I guess her homebirths were a Cheap Gil decision.

[rebeccawriter01]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:27 AM, nokidsmom said:

After hearing Gil say he relied on the ER for healthcare, I wondered how he ever paid those bills.   Even with insurance, a copay for an ER visit is a lot higher IME.  Long suspected that not only doesn't he pay, his "cash only" philosophy might be more out of necessity anyway as his credit would be in the dumpster.

Interesting what your grandfather told you and he lived in the area.    I long suspected based on similar reports from posters here over the years had me convinced that some people will not do business with them if they can help it.  I even made a joke at one point that the shops on the street should put out a "we are closed" sign when the family is sighted in the vicinity. 

My great uncle explained that one time he bought like six boards for building something. He wanted a bulk discount, though six is hardly bulk on that item. My great-uncle told him he would charge him for four and then two would be free. (note I don't remember the exact numbers) Gil apparently did this. Then a few days later when my great-uncle was not working, Gil returned all six and wanted a refund for all six instead of four. 

I don't know how much of this was exaggeration or not. 

When TLC and the Duggars came to "renovate" the house, apparently Gil would let TLC and Jim Bob negotiate, as most places they went weren't dealing with Gil and the big box stores didn't discount for him. On 19KAC there was drama because the concrete truck was late. Rumor around town was that Gil owed that company and was behind. They didn't care if there were cameras there or not.

[rebeccawriter01]

19 hours ago, Keys said:

I wonder what they did for routine health visits, though? For instance, the emergency is not equipped to do things like routine childhood vaccinations, Pap tests, etc (nor should they be - as a healthcare worker it irks me that they were using it this way)

From what I was told, they did vaccinations through the health department. Pap tests were for Kelly only, as they believed a girl didn't have to go to a GYN until they were married and sexually active. I don't know that they did much more than routine pregnancy related stuff for her. If it cost money, they skipped it and "relied on God."

[Kiki03910]

14 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

From what I was told, they did vaccinations through the health department. Pap tests were for Kelly only, as they believed a girl didn't have to go to a GYN until they were married and sexually active. I don't know that they did much more than routine pregnancy related stuff for her. If it cost money, they skipped it and "relied on God."

I'm honestly shocked these morons got vaccinations. Have any of the Bates and Duggar kids claimed they got the covid shots? Not that I'd neccessarily believe any of them except probably Jill and Derick Dillard.

[JermajestyDuggar]

25 minutes ago, Kiki03910 said:

I'm honestly shocked these morons got vaccinations. Have any of the Bates and Duggar kids claimed they got the covid shots? Not that I'd neccessarily believe any of them except probably Jill and Derick Dillard.

I think there are a lot of people in the US that are totally fine with routine vaccinations but drew the line at HPV and Covid vaccinations. 

[EmiSue]

2 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

I'm honestly shocked these morons got vaccinations. Have any of the Bates and Duggar kids claimed they got the covid shots? Not that I'd neccessarily believe any of them except probably Jill and Derick Dillard.

Jill and Derick did get at least the initial covid shots. I haven't heard any others did. 

[Keys]

3 hours ago, EmiSue said:

Jill and Derick did get at least the initial covid shots. I haven't heard any others did. 

Also possible that if they did, they just didn’t publicize it. I can see it being controversial in their circles, unfortunately 

[rebeccawriter01]

On 2/21/2024 at 4:18 AM, Kiki03910 said:

I'm honestly shocked these morons got vaccinations. 

I have no way of knowing which or if all of them did. I would bet that some of the older ones did because it wasn't really a controversy at the time most of them were young.

[Angelface]

Hoping that there aren’t too many Bates babies in 2024. I think Esther is possibly currently pregnant, Tiffany is also a slim possibility but all the others have either recently had a baby, are currently pregnant (Tori) or have health issues (Carlin) or fertility issues (Michael). I’m hoping that Alyssa is either done or takes a decent break from pregnancy. I’m most likely wrong but I’m hopeful 😂😂