Jinger Duggar Vuolo 60

[Idlewild]

I go back to when Jinger was newly married and said ‘Jeremy loves books, so I now I love books too’.

She went from being moulded by her parents to moulded by him. And she’s probably fine with it. 
A relative of mine (not fundie it even religious) used to shriek about any dog being in the same room as her child - all dogs were classed as dirty and dangerous- her husband’s opinion. She divorced and remarried  to a man with a dog. Now she talks about ‘us dog people’ and their dog, who does stink, accompanies them everywhere.

[Cam]

Spice Girls “Wannabe” trivia:

Worldwide, this is the best-selling single by an all-female group.
12th best seller of the 90s and, at the time of its release, the 31st best-selling single ever in the UK.
Allegedly the catchiest song of all time.
(I personally love the song).
 

C’mon, Jingy, give them gals a go! 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Cam

[SassyPants]

18 hours ago, Idlewild said:

I go back to when Jinger was newly married and said ‘Jeremy loves books, so I now I love books too’.

She went from being moulded by her parents to moulded by him. And she’s probably fine with it. 
A relative of mine (not fundie it even religious) used to shriek about any dog being in the same room as her child - all dogs were classed as dirty and dangerous- her husband’s opinion. She divorced and remarried  to a man with a dog. Now she talks about ‘us dog people’ and their dog, who does stink, accompanies them everywhere.

It will be interesting to see as time goes on and with more exposure to life outside the Duggar compound, if Jinger will actually form her own opinions and move out of the clutches of Vuolo. With some maturation, different experiences and more confidence maybe she’ll make changes in her life. If/when that happens, she will be freer. 

[viii]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

It will be interesting to see as time goes on and with more exposure to life outside the Duggar compound, if Jinger will actually form her own opinions and move out of the clutches of Vuolo. With some maturation, different experiences and more confidence maybe she’ll make changes in her life. If/when that happens, she will be freer. 

I’m not holding my breath. Jinger has been married for almost seven years and seems to have doubled down in Jeremy’s beliefs. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I’m not holding my breath. Jinger has been married for almost seven years and seems to have doubled down in Jeremy’s beliefs. 

I’m willing to give it time. Jinger isn’t even 30 YO yet. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m trying to remember the fundie women who deconstructed and their ages. Some were in their 30s before they made any big moves. They had deconstruction type thoughts in their teens and 20s. But sometimes it did take until their 30s to really do the work. If Jinger is more than happy with her lot in life with Jeremy and their church, then she won’t do much deconstructing past what she’s done now (disentangling she calls it).

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Honestly, I think she needs therapy. I don’t know if she’ll ever get it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Honestly, I think she needs therapy. I don’t know if she’ll ever get it. 

Oh she would definitely deconstruct if she got therapy. But I think Jeremy would never allow that. Fundies know real therapy will make a person deconstruct faster than anything else. That’s why it’s so forbidden. 

[viii]

I’m sure she has had therapy, a lot of her language seems therapy influenced. However, I’m sure that she has seen a Christian therapist, which won’t aid her deconstructing journey at all. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:08 PM, viii said:

I’m sure she has had therapy, a lot of her language seems therapy influenced. However, I’m sure that she has seen a Christian therapist, which won’t aid her deconstructing journey at all. 

 I hope her therapist helps her to come into herself. Even something small like enjoying her own TV show or her own interests outside of Jeremy and the kids would be huge. 

[Meggo]

On 8/22/2023 at 3:21 PM, Idlewild said:

I go back to when Jinger was newly married and said ‘Jeremy loves books, so I now I love books too’.

She went from being moulded by her parents to moulded by him. And she’s probably fine with it. 
A relative of mine (not fundie it even religious) used to shriek about any dog being in the same room as her child - all dogs were classed as dirty and dangerous- her husband’s opinion. She divorced and remarried  to a man with a dog. Now she talks about ‘us dog people’ and their dog, who does stink, accompanies them everywhere.

I had a friend like this in high school thru adulthood. “I have always wanted to go to this university” (you didn’t before you met that guy) “I have always wanted to do this!” (You must forget that we are 28 and I have known you since you were 15 and you have never- not once mentioned that thing. Ever.)

I ended up cutting her out of my life for a variety of reasons but she and her second husband just split. She dated him in college, broke up with him, started dating the next guy, married him and then went back to the college guy.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 8/29/2023 at 9:44 AM, Meggo said:

I had a friend like this in high school thru adulthood. “I have always wanted to go to this university” (you didn’t before you met that guy) “I have always wanted to do this!” (You must forget that we are 28 and I have known you since you were 15 and you have never- not once mentioned that thing. Ever.)

I ended up cutting her out of my life for a variety of reasons but she and her second husband just split. She dated him in college, broke up with him, started dating the next guy, married him and then went back to the college guy.

That’s intense. 
 

I cut out a friend a few months ago because her boundaries and everything changed depending on her mood, which was also constantly changing. It was exhausting to keep up with. 

[Longhairedheathen]

Reading her book and I feel...I don't know how to feel. I am having to take breaks as a former ATI kid and we were on the fringes. She really likes the word disentanglement and her admitting that he wasn't baby crazy like all the girls she grew up with was jaw dropping to me.  

Having no autonomy really stunted my adult life. I can remember when my now partner asked why I called my mom when I popped a tire, that was  my shelf breaking. I had handle the situation,  gotten a tow truck and gotten home but I still felt the need to call my mom just to let her know. I felt like I had to let her know or she would be upset with me.  

I feel like Jinger (and Jill) struggle with feelings of autonomy, I know I did because my family was hyperaware of failure so we had safe guards so I never failed. Like explaining that my first crush was the first guy I married because that was the first guy that I was allowed to like. 

 

[Cam]

14 hours ago, Longhairedheathen said:

Reading her book and I feel...I don't know how to feel. I am having to take breaks as a former ATI kid and we were on the fringes. She really likes the word disentanglement and her admitting that he wasn't baby crazy like all the girls she grew up with was jaw dropping to me.  

Having no autonomy really stunted my adult life. I can remember when my now partner asked why I called my mom when I popped a tire, that was  my shelf breaking. I had handle the situation,  gotten a tow truck and gotten home but I still felt the need to call my mom just to let her know. I felt like I had to let her know or she would be upset with me.  

I feel like Jinger (and Jill) struggle with feelings of autonomy, I know I did because my family was hyperaware of failure so we had safe guards so I never failed. Like explaining that my first crush was the first guy I married because that was the first guy that I was allowed to like. 

 

I read recently about “gatekeeping” which was described as “conditioning young women to not have ideas and opinions of their own, not having desires of their own”. Intentionally practiced by cult/cult like religions to keep females in line and from leaving the fold. It’s all so sick and manipulative and yet the male leaders care not. They want followers, they want the power and control.

I didn’t read Jinger’s book and didn’t know she professed not to be baby crazy. 

[Meggo]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:58 PM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

That’s intense. 
 

I cut out a friend a few months ago because her boundaries and everything changed depending on her mood, which was also constantly changing. It was exhausting to keep up with. 

it was really hard to cut her out. We'd been friends since we were 15. But - it was almost all about her. And when we tried to have a baby, she basically said I didn't want it enough. And then she was SO anti-vax (even for me getting a booster to a vaccine I'd had as a kid which clearly didn't give me autism...) that I just couldn't deal. I was hurt and wanted to be in a better place as we tried to have a baby. 
I still get word from mutual friends that she'd like to reach out - her husband once reached out even - but... I'll pass. (kind of a bummer cuz he is a super nice guy) 

 

 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

If she wanted to reach out... what's stopping her from doing it herself?  She's an adult and can contact you and try and make things right if she really wanted to.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

If she wanted to reach out... what's stopping her from doing it herself?  She's an adult and can contact you and try and make things right if she really wanted to.

Perhaps it’s about her wanting to reach out, ie about her again. 

[Meggo]

13 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

If she wanted to reach out... what's stopping her from doing it herself?  She's an adult and can contact you and try and make things right if she really wanted to.

If that comment was for me - I don't know what's stopping her. We saw each other at our reunion a few years after we cut ties and in a way we dropped back into the friendship and she wanted to set up time for us to have coffee or a drink or whatever and I just smiled but never followed up with that. (part of my issue with her was that all of the work seemed to be on my end, I would call her, set things up, make the effort) and I don't remember HER following up. And so her friend that we shared on FB reached out when my son was born and said my former friend would love to hear my news. I ignored it. Her husband reached out to invite me to a milestone birthday - and I didn't respond. 
I don't want to engage in the nonsense. I don't want it to all be on her terms again. Me doing all the work to keep the relationship etc. Plus all the drama. I don't need the drama. She can reach out - I am not looking to re-engage. 

[FiveAcres]

1 hour ago, Meggo said:

If that comment was for me - I don't know what's stopping her. We saw each other at our reunion a few years after we cut ties and in a way we dropped back into the friendship and she wanted to set up time for us to have coffee or a drink or whatever and I just smiled but never followed up with that. (part of my issue with her was that all of the work seemed to be on my end, I would call her, set things up, make the effort) and I don't remember HER following up. And so her friend that we shared on FB reached out when my son was born and said my former friend would love to hear my news. I ignored it. Her husband reached out to invite me to a milestone birthday - and I didn't respond. 
I don't want to engage in the nonsense. I don't want it to all be on her terms again. Me doing all the work to keep the relationship etc. Plus all the drama. I don't need the drama. She can reach out - I am not looking to re-engage. 

It sounds like your ex-friend is indulging in a little triangulation.

 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

@Meggo yeah, sorry, it was for you.  It was more of a rhetorical question because it seems like if someone truly wants to rekindle a relationship they'd be reaching out and either acknowledging their contributions to ending it or asking about them to try and repair and mend if they were clueless.

[meep]

My mom is reading this book now. I haven't read it but I probably will once she is done with it. 

My mom is the (somewhat former) type of fundie who doesn't know what a "fundie" is, dissociates herself from the Duggars (she once glorified them pre-scandals), and doesn't know who Gothard is or IBLP/ATI despite many members of our church growing up being part of it. I asked her, "Don't these beliefs sound like so and so? And such and such? She answers, "yes, it does!" I try to say, "Yes...your beliefs were really influenced by these people, these organizations....doesn't it make you question this specific belief??? It's not in the Bible, it was made up." My mom defiantly answers, "of course not, you don't understand, this just so happens to be REAL!!!" 🤦‍♀️ WelI, I tried.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

18 hours ago, meep said:

My mom is reading this book now. I haven't read it but I probably will once she is done with it. 

My mom is the (somewhat former) type of fundie who doesn't know what a "fundie" is, dissociates herself from the Duggars (she once glorified them pre-scandals), and doesn't know who Gothard is or IBLP/ATI despite many members of our church growing up being part of it. I asked her, "Don't these beliefs sound like so and so? And such and such? She answers, "yes, it does!" I try to say, "Yes...your beliefs were really influenced by these people, these organizations....doesn't it make you question this specific belief??? It's not in the Bible, it was made up." My mom defiantly answers, "of course not, you don't understand, this just so happens to be REAL!!!" 🤦‍♀️ WelI, I tried.

I think there are biblically based beliefs then there are traditions. Some of them are harmless, Christmas music is a good example of this, and some aren’t so harmless. 

[lumpentheologie]

15 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think there are biblically based beliefs then there are traditions. Some of them are harmless, Christmas music is a good example of this, and some aren’t so harmless. 

Well, some of the biblically based beliefs aren’t so harmless either, to be fair. 

As a cultural Catholic and a historian, it seems to me like Protestant fundies sometimes make an idol out of the Bible. If you think Jesus is important for your salvation, it seems to me like you’d want to know what really happened with him and his life and death and we know the Bible is in no way an accurate portrayal of that. The gospels all say different things, and they were all written long after the events they described.

Many of the things they recount are anachronistic — for example the juxtaposition of Jesus followers = good, Pharisees = bad, only became a thing after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD, because the other Hebrew sects had been wiped out by the Romans during the Jewish War and the Pharisees and Jesus followers were then competing for the allegiance of the remaining population. The Pharisee group eventually turned into Rabbinic Judaism and the Jesus followers turned into Christians.

We also know that many of the things recorded as being what Jesus said, for example much of the Sermon on the Mount, were lifted more or less verbatim from previous non-canonical scriptures that were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. We know that lot of the writings in the New Testament weren’t written by the people they’re attributed to, for example 1 Timothy (where it says women should be silent in church) wasn’t actually written by Paul — real Paul says there is neither male or female in Christ Jesus. 

What we now know as the New Testament was compiled by some Christians several hundred years after Jesus’ death, when they were literally held in a room at sword point by the Roman Emperor, who insisted that they come up with a common holy book for all Christians. What was included was a matter of fierce debate, and there were lots of other gospels and sacred writings that weren’t included. So compared to the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, which arose more or less organically over a thousand years, the New Testament was compiled as more or less a political stunt. 

A lot of the New Testament is also written in atrociously bad Greek — it wasn’t the native language of the often uneducated authors, but it was the the common language of the eastern Roman Empire, and they were trying reach as large an audience as possible. But imagine trying to write a holy text after about a year of high school instruction in a foreign language. That’s how it sounds. So the meaning is often unclear due to that. 

In addition to all this, we really don’t have any copies of the Bible that are older than the Middle Ages, and the copies we do have from then say different things. We also know that the monks who were scribes altered the text when they copied it down. So we don’t really have an “original” version. Fundies even sometimes acknowledge this, but they responded by conveniently claiming that the KJV was an additional “untainted” revelation from God. The non English speaking Christians were out of luck, I guess. 🤦🏻

Anyway, when fundies get so excited about their small children reading/memorizing the Bible or about having a necklace with the whole Bible written on it in tiny letters, this is what I think about. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by lumpentheologie

[Nothing if not critical]

I was raised Catholic, and when I first started questioning religion as a teen, I remember having long discussions about the exact meaning of Bible passages, about mistranslations and wilful misunderstandings and manipulations. And then at some point I realised that all that didn't really matter to me anymore, because I didn't believe the Bible was the word of God anyway, so why would I care about what it said in the first place (except as a matter of historical curiosity)?
These days, I honestly find it so weird if people think the fact that something is in the Bible makes it somehow more true, or lends more weight to their argument. It's like, I should agree with you because of what your favourite preacher may or may not have said two thousand years ago? Nah. 

[Meggo]

11 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I was raised Catholic, and when I first started questioning religion as a teen, I remember having long discussions about the exact meaning of Bible passages, about mistranslations and wilful misunderstandings and manipulations. And then at some point I realised that all that didn't really matter to me anymore, because I didn't believe the Bible was the word of God anyway, so why would I care about what it said in the first place (except as a matter of historical curiosity)?
These days, I honestly find it so weird if people think the fact that something is in the Bible makes it somehow more true, or lends more weight to their argument. It's like, I should agree with you because of what your favourite preacher may or may not have said two thousand years ago? Nah. 

I've always thought of it as the longest game of telephone ever. It's impossible to know the source of any of it really. And if every person added their own vague bit to it, and everyone interprets it slightly differently based on their own prejudices (the fact that we can probably find a pro/con item in there for nearly every single thing in the world) - enh. 
Weirdly - I was raised Catholic - SO not practicing anymore - but looking through my parents house - they have at LEAST 20 bibles. Minimum. But I can honestly say that outside of religion classes in high school or whenever - I've never read the bible - and I'm pretty sure my mom has only read what she was instructed to read - in church, in prayer group or whatever. Like "sit down every morning to read the bible" - never something I ever witnessed (and my family is really uber Catholic).