Seewalds 48: Homophobia Now Mixed With Hypocrisy

[Cam]

Imo, I think Spurgeon was coaxed into baptism early so it’d look good on Ben and Jessa, being as Ben is the/a preacher. I think they probably told him that as the oldest, he is a role model for his sibs and other yung uns. Spurgeon would choose baptism not out of fear of hell but in order to please his parents including God the father. Ben and Jessa would probably love for Spurgie to be next-generation Joel Olsteen so why not start early. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Cam

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Imo, I think Spurgeon was coaxed into baptism early so it’d look good on Ben and Jessa, being as Ben is the/a preacher. I think they probably told him that as the oldest, he is a role model for his sibs and other yung uns. Spurgeon would choose baptism not out of fear of hell but in order to please his parents including God the father. Ben and Jessa would probably love for Spurgie to be next-generation Joel Olsteen so why not start early. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Spurge came up with the idea himself. There's an altar call at the end of every service, and anyone who comes forward is recognized and congratulated and praised like it's their birthday, by the whole congregation. Then on baptism day they are like the special guest at a party, and often even get gifts like maybe a new Bible (and at my church a glass communion cup for their first communion, instead of the plastic disposable kind). Kids raised in that sort of church know that they are eventually expected to come forward for baptism - that's just something you do. And you're expected to do so once you're old enough to really understand, but if you wait TOO long people start to wonder about you. Especially if your parent is an important or public person in the church (source: mom was the church pianist/organist). 

Also it's summer - that's VBS time, church camp time, special programs time, etc. It's really common for kids to decide to come forward after something like that, where you've been immersed in this extra-fun church environment for a week or so. The regular sermons you might just sit through, zoned out, sitting and standing and singing as appropriate, just waiting for it to be over. But VBS and church camp and stuff like that are much more fun - tailored toward kids and youth, less fire and brimstone and more "God is awesome" type stuff, with activities and games and fun but also the sort of service (usually at the end) where it's still kid focused but also emotional and heart-tugging and you're in this group where everyone is all together and praising God and such... so LOTS of kids get saved in a situation like that.

No telling if that's what happened with Spurge or not. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Many kid and youth focused church events were like the modern fun more casual praise churches before those were a thing for adults. You get swept up in the emotion and singing and your friends are going forward and you're feeling some kind of way too so that must be Jesus coming into your heart, right? So you go forward and everyone hugs you and praises you. And then once you've been baptized you get to have the grape juice and cracker at communion and vote if the congregation has to vote on something during the service, and you are officially a member of the church and hey, also now you'll go to heaven if you die!

I don't think Jessa and Ben would have had to coax Spurge at all, necessarily. Even a fundie church has revivals and events and such where it's really easy to get swept up into things and decide it's time to come forward. He might have spoken to them about it first, or it might have been spur of the moment. For me it happened at camp but I was afraid to go forward, but then talked to my parents and the pastor before coming forward officially at my home church. 

[Sullie06]

Raised Roman Catholic so we were all baptized as infants. You know, Original Sin and all that. The whole thing seems weird to me to do on children, infants or older. 

I've known a lot of people baptized as adults and it's very moving and important to them. Seems more appropriate. 

[fluffernutter]

Most people I know get baptized as babies. There's a mega-church in this area that some people I know go to and they often get baptized as kids or adults who get re-baptized even if they were already baptized as a baby. We never got our kids baptized, but did get them dedicated in a UU ceremony. We figured they'd figure out what faith they wanted to be on their own. Now we are back at the Lutheran church my husband grew up in and we were married at, and my kids are all godless heathens. 🤣 They joke going to Lutheran church is our midlife crisis. I guess we could be doing far worse things. 🤷‍♀️

[BullyJBG]

2 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

Most people I know get baptized as babies. There's a mega-church in this area that some people I know go to and they often get baptized as kids or adults who get re-baptized even if they were already baptized as a baby. We never got our kids baptized, but did get them dedicated in a UU ceremony. We figured they'd figure out what faith they wanted to be on their own. Now we are back at the Lutheran church my husband grew up in and we were married at, and my kids are all godless heathens. 🤣 They joke going to Lutheran church is our midlife crisis. I guess we could be doing far worse things. 🤷‍♀️

I grew up Mennonite, and the Anabaptist thing is what defines our history. Anyone who gets re-baptized as a teen/adult when they were baptized as a baby we call a "true Anabaptist". I think it was Menno Simons or something, where, it hit him, these babies have no choice, so what are we doing?(and in the Mennonite churches, typically no one is under 10 when they are baptized)

  Interesting how Spurgeon's baptism I only found out here. He's old enough to have asked, after a baptism service, how old you have to be to be baptized, and talked with Ben and Jessa all about what it means. Of course we'll never know unless he actually comes out with it later on, but we'll see how things go from here. Josh and Anna's 3 oldest are 10+ but should they have chosen to be baptized, they likely would've taken care of that privately.(as in, no cameras at the church, or photos not shared in any public way) Israel is already 8, and it's not like Jill and Derick not to post if HE chose to be baptized.

[Expectopatronus]

My daughter was 2 months old when she was baptized but confirmation will be her choice entirely. Depending on whether we stay at our current church or go back to the cathedral, she will be anywhere from grade 7-9 (12-14 yrs). Most of the churches in my diocese confirm at middle school age. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

In our Congregationalist church growing up, anyone was allowed to take communion at any age.  You didn't have to be a member, baptized, confirmed, etc.  As I said before, I was baptized in the church but when I went through the youth group as a teenager I ultimately decided not to join the church.  We were required to stand up in front of the congregation and make a speech about our relationship with God and the church and announce if we were becoming members or not during the speech.  At this point I'd discovered science and decided my minister was not a very good man and my relationship with God was suffering.  It was a pretty intense speech for the occasion where I pretty much tore into Christianity as being organized like a well-written paper but having no substance.  You could have heard a pin drop.

In a move that surprises probably no one, I have been happily atheist for years although I am very tolerant of religion as long as it is tolerant of other people.  I told them I wasn't comfortable making a speech and they insisted, so that had to take what they got.  My mom was so proud of me she still talks about it 20 years later on occasion.

[Cam]

I get all that “being swept up in the moment” at Bible camp, I have my own stories I could tell, but naw, I don’t think being baptized was solely Spurgeon’s spontaneous idea. The stage had already been set for him, the foundation laid or the soil plowed and the seeds planted by his parents. I mean, what else they got to focus on? 

[medimus]

In Belgium (where I grew up), the standard is Catholic: baptism as a baby, first holy communion in 2nd grade and confirmation in 6th grade (last year of primary school, just before moving up to secondary). These are almost universally organised through school, but in state schools parents have a choice of which religion class you follow, so when I was at school, most of the class did catholocism, and I did Humanism (which is recognised as a 'life vision/stance/path' there is no good english word for this! just like a religion and falls in the same bracket of things) and I had what was in essence a Humanist confirmation in 6th grade (called a celebration of youth which is sort of celbrating the start of adolescence and really becoming your own person). They now also have Lentefeest (spring festival) which are for kids in 1st or 2nd grade, coming in to the age of reason.

In Ireland the timing seems to be exactly the same, infant baptism, 1st communion in 2nd class and confirmation in 6th class before heading off to secondary school. The kids are slightly older though, because the age cut off is earlier here.

They are basically rights of passage, just like 1st communion and confirmation have really become. People like having celebrations and milestones and something communal to mark important moments, so the humanists have taken it on. The ones in Belgium have been going since at least the 19th century. Here is a little history https://www.cavavub.be/nl/oorsprong-ontwikkeling-fvj (right click on the page and you should be able to translate it, definitely in google chrome).

[CarrotCake]

Some pictures of Gabby Pattons babyshower are posted on Reddit and although I am not a fan of speculating pregnancy from pictures, I think here it is undeniable that Jessa is.

[Cam]

33 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

Some pictures of Gabby Pattons babyshower are posted on Reddit and although I am not a fan of speculating pregnancy from pictures, I think here it is undeniable that Jessa is.

I just saw the photos and yes, undeniably pregnant. For some reason feel sad for Jessa. Who knows how many kids she’ll go on to have but it’s looks like a dull life for someone who seemed to have some potential. Jana has the freedom being single brings, Jill and Jinger are both best selling authors and Jessa is a ho-hum preacherman’s wife submissively popping out kids on a routine basis. 

And something seems lacking in Gabby’s smile which usually appears all giddily over the top happy. Maybe it’s just being that far along pregnant. I can’t tell if that’s her baby in the photo with Joy and Abby or if it’s Joy’s baby? 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Cam

[CanadianMamam]

50 minutes ago, Cam said:

I just saw the photos and yes, undeniably pregnant. For some reason feel sad for Jessa. Who knows how many kids she’ll go on to have but it’s looks like a dull life for someone who seemed to have some potential. Jana has the freedom being single brings, Jill and Jinger are both best selling authors and Jessa is a ho-hum preacherman’s wife submissively popping out kids on a routine basis. 

And something seems lacking in Gabby’s smile which usually appears all giddily over the top happy. Maybe it’s just being that far along pregnant. I can’t tell if that’s her baby in the photo with Joy and Abby or if it’s Joy’s baby? 

That’s Joy’s baby Gunner. Gabby is still pregnant and her current youngest is a toddler. 
 

and yes, Jessa is 100% pregnant and very pregnant. It could be that she was already pregnant again when she announced her miscarriage. Which would have her at roughly 6 months. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by CanadianMamam

[viii]

Can someone post the pictures here for those that don’t visit Reddit, please?

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, viii said:

Can someone post the pictures here for those that don’t visit Reddit, please?

Spoiler

It is the second picture that makes it obvious.

[viii]

I’m not a fan of speculating on bodies but I’d have to agree that she is 100% pregnant. 

[Bassett Lady]

7 minutes ago, viii said:

I’m not a fan of speculating on bodies but I’d have to agree that she is 100% pregnant. 

 

[SassyPants]

A pregnancy is such a weird thing for an adult, married, woman in her 30s to try to conceal. Sure, no one in the public has a right to know anything about your child (ren), even though the only reason the public knows anything about you is because YOUR PARENTS sold everything about YOU for PUBLIC consumption. And dollars to donuts, Jessa would still be on a TV selling her children’s private moments for easy cash if that option was available, and since it’s not, NOW she (and many other Duggs)all want privacy. 

PS- I’m glad the kids are getting privacy.

[CanadianMamam]

20 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

A pregnancy is such a weird thing for an adult, married, woman in her 30s to try to conceal. Sure, no one in the public has a right to know anything about your child (ren), even though the only reason the public knows anything about you is because YOUR PARENTS sold everything about YOU for PUBLIC consumption. And dollars to donuts, Jessa would still be on a TV selling her children’s private moments for easy cash if that option was available, and since it’s not, NOW she (and many other Duggs)all want privacy. 

PS- I’m glad the kids are getting privacy.

I assume Jessa is staying quiet because she got ripped to shreds over her miscarriage/D&C. Also, she announced Ivy 19 weeks before she was born and Fern 21 weeks before she was born. Jessa had a miscarriage at Christmas. That was 33 weeks or so ago. It depends on how fast she got pregnant but my guess is she around 20-24 weeks and then if’s not far off her other post-show announcement timing. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by CanadianMamam

[JDuggs]

Jessa has the most IG followers compared to any of her siblings and a lot more than any of the Bates’ kids who rely heavily on their influencing. Jessa does random ads (Walmart, the furniture company that made her dining room table, some education app) all featuring her kids. She’s in a very fortunate position that she doesn’t have to shill makeup and hair care products daily or post about their lives constantly, while still providing a social media income stream that’s not as intrusive on their lives. Her popularity has afforded her some privacy. If she needed to sell out her kids’ privacy on a more consistent basis for the money, I don’t think she’d have a problem with it.

[AussieKrissy]

12 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Some pictures of Gabby Pattons babyshower are posted on Reddit and although I am not a fan of speculating pregnancy from pictures, I think here it is undeniable that Jessa is.

anyone got some screenshots?

Do you think she has not announced this pregnancy yet because of the abortion backlash from the last miscarriage or perhaps from a fear of loosing this one too (that I can understand). 

Edited August 14, 2023 by AussieKrissy
never mind I see someone did thanks

[viii]

As someone mentioned, she announced both Fern and Ivy past 20 weeks so she might be on schedule. 

[marmalade]

8 minutes ago, viii said:

As someone mentioned, she announced both Fern and Ivy past 20 weeks so she might be on schedule. 

I'd guess she's at least that far gone, if not a little more. She carried very large with Spurge, smaller with Henry and Ivy. She hid Fern's pregnancy, so no gauge there. But yeah, I'd say solidly 5-6 months. 

[AussieKrissy]

I dunno I remember Pricilla Waller was only fairly newly pregnant and she popped out heaps, Jessa's fifth baby she could be three months and just popped out super early due to her previous babies. Time will tell I suppose.

I wonder how many they want? I am thinking about 7 like Bins family. 

I do think that Anna was the only one that is all in on the as many as god wants at least that shit show is stopped.

I do wonder if Jinger is happy with 2 or if she would like more? I wonder if wanting a boy plays into that. 

I don't judge people who have a gender preference as long as they love the baby they get regardless and don't keep going at the detriment of all to get the set gender they are after. 

Jeremy (like me) is hitting the greys early. That's why I was thinking about their kid situation. randomly because he is looking older lol 

 

[Coconut Flan]

I don't see Jeremy wanting more than three.  He might be happy with two.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

53 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I don't see Jeremy wanting more than three.  He might be happy with two.

Three is a lot harder and more expensive in LA than it is in Northwest Arkansas.