M is for Mama 15

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, SuperNova said:

It's a Christmas miracle. Abbie is doing something altruistic for her son and a few random people. She of course puts her own spin on it but I'm still surprised. I would really love to see her help a same sex couple or a single p.o.c. mom but honestly, whoever she chooses, it's nice to see her think of someone other than herself for once. 

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There’s nothing altruistic about it for Braggie. She’s getting more engagement and likes. And she gets to pick the Christian family most in need so she feels good about herself. She can’t just give to anyone family. It will probably be a Christian white family she thinks deserves it. Not a black Muslim family. 

[Zebedee]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m convinced that there’s no way you can have double digits children without some sort of neglect.

I don't work much, my partner is away half the week, and we eat out lots, as I hate cooking. I'm also an indifferent housekeeper, and I send his shirts out to be ironed (yes, I know, I am very lucky). I also have five rats, who don't require homeschooling, or just normal time-consuming parenting stuff (litter training takes a few minutes for a few days, for instance) - and while I could manage one, maaaybe two, more - that would be my limit. They would all suffer from lack of individual attention (they are little attention hogs, lol).

Admittedly, I also have bad depression attacks for a large part of the year, so I know my capabilities are much lower than average - but unless you never sleep, and you have a very involved partner, and extra help (not making your kids bring up the others) - it's impossible. Especially as they don't "just" do this for a few years, it's decades.

[FunFunFundie]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And all three are in double digits child wise. One has 10, one has 12, and one has 13. I’m convinced that there’s no way you can have double digits children without some sort of neglect.

That’s why I’m here. I had 8 siblings growing up, and as a 43-year-old woman, still wonder daily if things could have been better (because they were very bad). Was it just that my parents were ill-equipped for so many kids? Can there be 9 kids in a family who are given individual attention, who are cared for properly, and who thrive? In so many of the families we watch, the external image is one of happiness, order, love, and a child-centered life. 
 

But I think it can’t be true. Or, at the very least, it would take a pretty unlikely scenario for it to be true (maybe very wide spacing between kids, lots and lots of money, super involved extended family). So I am pulled to watch these families, because I think for the most part, it’s very unlikely that what happens most of the time looks anything like what they put on social media.

[SuperNova]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

There’s nothing altruistic about it for Braggie. She’s getting more engagement and likes. And she gets to pick the Christian family most in need so she feels good about herself. She can’t just give to anyone family. It will probably be a Christian white family she thinks deserves it. Not a black Muslim family. 

I don't necessarily disagree and I don't like the the way she's going about it. Abbie won't take much from it besides internet clout but someone can do something for completely selfish reasons and it's still altruistic. Two people will still be helped. Ezra gets to see a positive action and feel the Christmas spirit. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by SuperNova

[theotherelise]

I don't think anything can be both altruistic AND selfish. Someone might be helped even though it's selfish, but it's not altruistic for the exact reason that she is trying to get something out of it for herself. Altruism by it's definition is selfless.

The other day, Abbie all but confirmed that they use barrier birth control and NFP. She said she's convicted not to use any permanent sterilization, any hormonal birth control, or any "abortifacient." It's really baffling to me that someone can claim to believe that they shouldn't control their fertility and should submit that God while at the same time using century old birth control methods. Just one more thing for her to feel superior about when tons of families manage their fertility in the exact same way.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

I don't think anything can be both altruistic AND selfish. Someone might be helped even though it's selfish, but it's not altruistic for the exact reason that she is trying to get something out of it for herself. Altruism by it's definition is selfless.

The other day, Abbie all but confirmed that they use barrier birth control and NFP. She said she's convicted not to use any permanent sterilization, any hormonal birth control, or any "abortifacient." It's really baffling to me that someone can claim to believe that they shouldn't control their fertility and should submit that God while at the same time using century old birth control methods. Just one more thing for her to feel superior about when tons of families manage their fertility in the exact same way.

I think other fundies secretly do the same thing. Fundies are very often shitting all over hormonal birth control. But you hardly ever hear anything about condoms, NFP, or just pulling out. 

[Smee]

I have three children, with 2 year+ gaps between, and I often feel like they don’t get everything they need from me. There’s no way you can convince me that a kid who is one of ten is getting the same quality of life and childhood as a kid who only has 1 or 2 siblings. Any time I pee, someone wants me. Often when my son asks me to read with him or play a game of chess or scrabble, it’s “I can’t right now, I’m putting your sister to bed” or “I need to clean up the kitchen first, sorry”. One kid wants me to paint her nails while another wants me to help her start a sewing project and I’ve only got one pair of hands. Yeah, they don’t NEED constant undivided attention and there are times where they’re perfectly content to play together or read, but those simple connection-forging things Braggie talks about are harder and harder to do regularly the more kids you have. If three of your kids all need a hug at the same moment, someone misses out. And often it’s the older children who miss out, who are seen as having less of a need because their needs are for time and conversation and emotional support rather than changing a nappy or wiping a face.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

20 hours ago, theotherelise said:

I don't think anything can be both altruistic AND selfish. Someone might be helped even though it's selfish, but it's not altruistic for the exact reason that she is trying to get something out of it for herself. Altruism by it's definition is selfless.

The other day, Abbie all but confirmed that they use barrier birth control and NFP. She said she's convicted not to use any permanent sterilization, any hormonal birth control, or any "abortifacient." It's really baffling to me that someone can claim to believe that they shouldn't control their fertility and should submit that God while at the same time using century old birth control methods. Just one more thing for her to feel superior about when tons of families manage their fertility in the exact same way.

Abbie always says she leaves it up to God but also that they use J/ non-hormonal bc. She was salty that the second set of twins was early. One of many, many areas she's inconsistent on!

[danvillebelle]

I'm very surprised we've made it to the end of the year without a pregnancy announcement from her.  Maybe having a prolapsed uterus actually woke her (or Shaun) up to the dangers of continuing.  Fingers crossed.

[EmiSue]

2 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

I'm very surprised we've made it to the end of the year without a pregnancy announcement from her.  Maybe having a prolapsed uterus actually woke her (or Shaun) up to the dangers of continuing.  Fingers crossed.

She had a chemical pregnancy sometime this year. Don't know if that was before or after the prolapse diagnosis. Most of the people we discuss on here shouldn't have more kids, but she REALLY shouldn't.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I knew she would want a full two year gap after the twins. She seems to prefer that two year gap. And if she doesn’t have it, she gets pissed. Like when the twins were conceived before that two year gap could happen. I knew there would at least be a two year gap after the twins. I’m hoping her fertility has gone way down now that she’s in her 40s.

[danvillebelle]

It is 10 degrees here in East Texas this morning.  Braggie posted a pic of herself "wearing all the clothes" because of the cold.  I don't want to think how cold it is in her giant, probably poorly insulated barn.  I hope all the kids have warm enough clothes, and I'm not being hyperbolic, considering that she once took her twin babies out on a hike in CO or AK without checking they were dressed warmly or had coats and Shiloh and the twins are usually running around in nothing but a diaper.

Edited December 23, 2022 by danvillebelle

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, danvillebelle said:

It is 10 degrees here in East Texas this morning.  Braggie posted a pic of herself "wearing all the clothes" because of the cold.  I don't want to think how cold it is in her giant, probably poorly insulated barn.  I hope all the kids have warm enough clothes, and I'm not being hyperbolic, considering that she once took her twin babies out on a hike in CO or AK without checking they were dressed warmly or had coats and Shiloh and the twins are usually running around in nothing but a diaper.

They will probably curl up with a blanket to stay warm. Since they are so used to being ignored, they might have become crafty about figuring things out on their own. 

[TuringMachine]

I expect her to have at least one more pregnancy, with an announcement detailing a definitely real story of someone being rude about having a baby at her age.

[neuroticcat]

So a recent Q&A she slipped in that she and her husband shower together after dinner and treat it very matter of factly - like they tell their kids that they're going up to shower while the kids clean up. (Possibly daily? I don't remember. But I think the Q was how they spend time together). I don't know if it was code for smexy time, but she also talked about how all the kids know where they came from so maybe?

Regardless this is just so much information for children and for the internet! Also, I couldn't help but think how overwhelming it would be to not even be able to be alone in the shower. So many people. All the time. I am just embarrassed to imagine putting whatever intimate details out there on the internet and then also that my kids knew and - oh my goodness - my teens would die a thousand deaths for all of it.

[danvillebelle]

7 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

my teens would die a thousand deaths for all of it.

Hers will too, if not now then later.  She doesn't care. 

Influencers using their children as props and to sell things on IG has become a real hot-button issue with me and I hate it with the passion of a thousand burning suns.  The arrogance of "it's my kid so I'll do what I want", with NO thought of how the child might feel later on or as an adult, and the utter naivete' about how many nefarious people in the world comb social media platforms for images of children is a deadly combination.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s like child stars. No one asked if Ashley and Mary Kate wanted to be on a tv show as 9 month old infants. It’s not surprising at all that they are extremely private adults. 

[danvillebelle]

It's always encouraging when others besides us read her book and recognize her for what she is.  From goodreads (bolded mine):

"Yet another new book which reads like blog posts or social media posts. Poor writing, nothing new if you follow her on social media, and often written with an air of conceit. Also, the Penny system…yikes!! Years of child psych classes makes me want to run away from that!! Anyway, not for me or my family.
The idea of mediocre motherhood and avoiding it, totally agree, but the writing was too poor to get the point across."

"The quality, some sections, some insights.. I would give 3 stars maybe. But I just can’t rate higher than 2 or else it might look like a recommendation.
This book is missing a lot. And focuses on a lot of the wrong things. I was interested in picking up this book because I do see the complaining culture of motherhood, trying to one up each other on just how bad our day as a mother was. And I was curious how to combat that in practical responses (in my words and heart) or even just a helpful view of it. And it’s a pretty book with a cool design. Plus it was on sale.
But the response was, don’t complain. Just be a better mother. Use your own strength and be better than the mediocre mothers around you. And whatever you do, don’t be mediocre too.
Not helpful.
There was no grace. No repentance and forgiveness. No reality of our sinful nature. No pointing to our Savior and the work He has done. No distinction of law and gospel at all. Be better, work work work. BETTER.
There was a lot of talk about social media, online friends, be like this person and not like that one, the penny jar system chapter was hard to read.. The not-so-good parenting moments she shares are still dressed up enough to not sound THAT bad and still sound good enough to share on the Internet. It felt like every chapter was trying to be dressed up enough to post on Instagram with a selfie. I felt like it never really got into the real, tough stuff.
It wasn’t very deep to me. I felt like she didn’t understand me at all. I felt like all these responses to the negative culture of motherhood are actually just comments to negative social media posts. Not responses to real people in real life, trying to be a good mother and feeling weighed down and voices a negative (or sarcastic) comment about motherhood.. if a friend came up to you, voicing a bunch of how hard their life as a mother is, what is your real response? What do you say, how do you react? How do you stop that back and forth of, oh yeah? Well hear THIS… how do you bring conversations back to Jesus in those times? When the complainer is me, what grace and words of comfort do I need to hear? I just really doubt that the response to your stressed, complaining friend in real life would be, well you know what? That’s kind of mediocre. You should really pray more and work harder to be a better mother. Let me show you the ways to be a better mom. … I can’t imagine that would really help. Yet that’s how the book is set up.
This was a talk about the big picture of negative, whiny motherhood and a lot of that I agreed with. It doesn’t address the everyday responses, grace, conversation, when we actually deal with it face-to-face. In the heart of our friends and in ourselves. If I hadn’t spent money on this, I don’t think I would’ve finished reading."

Edited December 28, 2022 by danvillebelle

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:01 PM, Smee said:

I have three children, with 2 year+ gaps between, and I often feel like they don’t get everything they need from me. There’s no way you can convince me that a kid who is one of ten is getting the same quality of life and childhood as a kid who only has 1 or 2 siblings. Any time I pee, someone wants me. Often when my son asks me to read with him or play a game of chess or scrabble, it’s “I can’t right now, I’m putting your sister to bed” or “I need to clean up the kitchen first, sorry”. One kid wants me to paint her nails while another wants me to help her start a sewing project and I’ve only got one pair of hands. Yeah, they don’t NEED constant undivided attention and there are times where they’re perfectly content to play together or read, but those simple connection-forging things Braggie talks about are harder and harder to do regularly the more kids you have. If three of your kids all need a hug at the same moment, someone misses out. And often it’s the older children who miss out, who are seen as having less of a need because their needs are for time and conversation and emotional support rather than changing a nappy or wiping a face.

Same. Three kids, 2-3 year gaps, and I constantly feel like I'm telling someone I can't do something or they have to wait because I have to make dinner/clean somebody up/get somebody ready/hang laundry/etc.  And that's just with three!

[neuroticcat]

Oh the conundrum of being a working mom within a kind of Christianity that idealizes only domestic labor for wives/moms. 
 

Not sure what the emphasis on unpaid work “by choice” indicates. 

[TuringMachine]

Doesn't she teach fitness classes? 

[danvillebelle]

2 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

Doesn't she teach fitness classes? 

Yes.  She tied herself into a pretzel in that answer trying to convince herself that she's not a "working mom".  As always, keep flailing toots, maybe someday you'll believe the lies you tell yourself to justify your hypocrisy.

[JermajestyDuggar]

She taught fitness classes while her kids were in the gym daycare! Yes it was only for a few hours a day but she still did it. Plus she taught fitness classes in her home. She taught Spanish one day a week in their homeschool co op for years as well. She’s been a part time working mom for basically all of her children’s lives. Whether she admits it or not. 

[Cults-r-us]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:01 PM, Smee said:

I have three children, with 2 year+ gaps between, and I often feel like they don’t get everything they need from me. There’s no way you can convince me that a kid who is one of ten is getting the same quality of life and childhood as a kid who only has 1 or 2 siblings. Any time I pee, someone wants me. Often when my son asks me to read with him or play a game of chess or scrabble, it’s “I can’t right now, I’m putting your sister to bed” or “I need to clean up the kitchen first, sorry”. One kid wants me to paint her nails while another wants me to help her start a sewing project and I’ve only got one pair of hands. Yeah, they don’t NEED constant undivided attention and there are times where they’re perfectly content to play together or read, but those simple connection-forging things Braggie talks about are harder and harder to do regularly the more kids you have. If three of your kids all need a hug at the same moment, someone misses out. And often it’s the older children who miss out, who are seen as having less of a need because their needs are for time and conversation and emotional support rather than changing a nappy or wiping a face.

 

On 12/19/2022 at 10:01 PM, Smee said:

I have three children, with 2 year+ gaps between, and I often feel like they don’t get everything they need from me. There’s no way you can convince me that a kid who is one of ten is getting the same quality of life and childhood as a kid who only has 1 or 2 siblings. Any time I pee, someone wants me. Often when my son asks me to read with him or play a game of chess or scrabble, it’s “I can’t right now, I’m putting your sister to bed” or “I need to clean up the kitchen first, sorry”. One kid wants me to paint her nails while another wants me to help her start a sewing project and I’ve only got one pair of hands. Yeah, they don’t NEED constant undivided attention and there are times where they’re perfectly content to play together or read, but those simple connection-forging things Braggie talks about are harder and harder to do regularly the more kids you have. If three of your kids all need a hug at the same moment, someone misses out. And often it’s the older children who miss out, who are seen as having less of a need because their needs are for time and conversation and emotional support rather than changing a nappy or wiping a face.

But @Smee, you actually care about your role as a parent, meeting each child's need and making their experience as a child good. That is a huge difference between Braggie making all experiences for her good. Simply put, that bitch ain't right.

[SuperNova]

New year, same hateful, bigoted Abbie. Isn't it lucky for her that her sexual identity perfectly matches what Jesus wants. The window for what's "healthy" is so unbelievably narrow in her view. Only married men and women should be affectionate and everyone else is a sexually depraved degenerate that's trying to pervert the minds of children. She has a whole series of these mean little slides, pointing out what's wrong with everyone else that doesn't live exactly like her. 

Spoiler