M is for Mama 15

[neuroticcat]

The materials sounds like they are trying to do something like MOPS - I don’t have enough info to know if all the panelists skew fundamentalist or not, but maybe a conservative alternative b/c IIRC MOPS attempts to be pretty broad minded and accessible. I am now curious to see if it will be very well attended. A lot of hype on their online stuff but very little interaction/likes. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

44 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

The materials sounds like they are trying to do something like MOPS - I don’t have enough info to know if all the panelists skew fundamentalist or not, but maybe a conservative alternative b/c IIRC MOPS attempts to be pretty broad minded and accessible. I am now curious to see if it will be very well attended. A lot of hype on their online stuff but very little interaction/likes. 

I hope it’s a huge flop and Braggie has a fit.

[SuperNova]

Abbie's setting up the straw men and knocking them down. I live in an entirely secular community. There's not one single person in my circle that is actively religious. No one tells me I'm wasting my life or calls me a parasite for being a SAHW. Feminism is about supporting women in whatever role they choose including homemaker, but that concept doesn't sell books or get Abbie's audience whipped into a righteous frenzy. The post included a very performative and not at all staged video of Abbie (with a full face of make-up) on her knees with a spray bottle cleaning all the things, cooking while holding a baby and smiling into their clean little face. The very picture of a busy but calm mother. 

I find it interesting that the Abbies of the world equate busyness with importance. She's careful to say that she has a full plate but could always be doing more despite feeling over stimulated and stretched thin. Sometimes it's ok to do nothing at all. Evil feminism supports that, too.

Spoiler

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, SuperNova said:

Abbie's setting up the straw men and knocking them down. I live in an entirely secular community. There's not one single person in my circle that is actively religious. No one tells me I'm wasting my life or calls me a parasite for being a SAHW. Feminism is about supporting women in whatever role they choose including homemaker, but that concept doesn't sell books or get Abbie's audience whipped into a righteous frenzy. The post included a very performative and not at all staged video of Abbie (with a full face of make-up) on her knees with a spray bottle cleaning all the things, cooking while holding a baby and smiling into their clean little face. The very picture of a busy but calm mother. 

I find it interesting that the Abbies of the world equate busyness with importance. She's careful to say that she has a full plate but could always be doing more despite feeling over stimulated and stretched thin. Sometimes it's ok to do nothing at all. Evil feminism supports that, too.

  Hide contents

 

Braggie probably never met a feminist in her life. Or didn’t realize it because they were so nice and accepting of her and didn’t realize a feminist isn’t foaming at the mouth to scratch her eyes out for having 10 kids. I’m a stay at home mom, feminist, and agnostic. Does that mean I’m supposed to hate myself for being a SAHM? Braggie doesn’t understand what feminism means. And she doesn’t want to learn. Because she doesn’t want to be wrong. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[danvillebelle]

I was a very religious stay at home mom for 25 years.  No one that I can recall ever said one negative word to me about it, including family members and friends who always worked outside the home and had busy careers.  Fundies like Braggie have been trotting out these same old tired blurbs by/about feminists since the 80's.  GTFO it already, nobody cares.  It's 2023.  Everyone's too busy trying to live their own fucking lives and make it in this economy.  The only persecution modern-day fundies face is in their own pointy heads.

Edited January 25, 2023 by danvillebelle

[danvillebelle]

And I've said it before and I'll say it again - the kind of people Braggie likes to think want to persecute here her in East Texas (liberals, atheists, feminists, the ebil gheyz) are all staying far, far away from her.  We're here, but we avoid people like her like the plague.  No one in Tyler gives a rat's ass about Braggie and her passel of kids, except possibly the poor servers who have to wait on them in restaurants.

[neuroticcat]

I think b/c it’s impossible for Abbie (and fundamentalist view of women) to let women live how they want, she assumes feminists & others want to prescribe a life for women. 

I am not a women’s studies expert, but I think the reason 2nd wave feminists used the vocabulary she is trotting out as a straw man is b/c women didn’t have agency. That’s a very different thing than today, when women have freedom to make different career choices.

Today, no one cares if women choose to stay at home and scrub cabinets as worship. They care that they have the freedom to do that or not. I have never met anyone who looked down on women who stayed home and told them they should try to work. I have met plenty of Christian women, Abbie included, who looked down on others for their choices and told them they should stay at home and be happy about it.

I also hate the Christian gaslighting that goes along with suburban domesticity. There is nothing particularly spiritual about scrubbing your cabinets. I spent too many years thinking God cared about me in particular cleaning toilets for his glory to not strongly object. 

 Toilets have to be cleaned, but Sean can, the kids can, Abbie can, or they can hire it out. It’s a task. It’s not a precious act of service or worship any more than me typing out this post is. I think telling women cleaning is worship keeps them on a hamster wheel trying to stay content with objectively hard and boring things. There are fulfilling things about domestic work but it  also can just be stuff adults do. 

[Cults-r-us]

On 1/24/2023 at 1:09 PM, SuperNova said:

Abbie's setting up the straw men and knocking them down. I live in an entirely secular community. There's not one single person in my circle that is actively religious. No one tells me I'm wasting my life or calls me a parasite for being a SAHW. Feminism is about supporting women in whatever role they choose including homemaker, but that concept doesn't sell books or get Abbie's audience whipped into a righteous frenzy. The post included a very performative and not at all staged video of Abbie (with a full face of make-up) on her knees with a spray bottle cleaning all the things, cooking while holding a baby and smiling into their clean little face. The very picture of a busy but calm mother. 

I find it interesting that the Abbies of the world equate busyness with importance. She's careful to say that she has a full plate but could always be doing more despite feeling over stimulated and stretched thin. Sometimes it's ok to do nothing at all. Evil feminism supports that, too.

  Hide contents

 

Holy moley, Abbie sure sounds like Lazy Lori.

[JermajestyDuggar]

21 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

Holy moley, Abbie sure sounds like Lazy Lori.

They all try so hard to be different or counter cultural. But they all sound the same! Jill Rod, Braggie, Lisa Metzger, TAM, Lori, all of them say the same stuff! How boring. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Cults-r-us]

19 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I think b/c it’s impossible for Abbie (and fundamentalist view of women) to let women live how they want, she assumes feminists & others want to prescribe a life for women. 

I am not a women’s studies expert, but I think the reason 2nd wave feminists used the vocabulary she is trotting out as a straw man is b/c women didn’t have agency. That’s a very different thing than today, when women have freedom to make different career choices.

Today, no one cares if women choose to stay at home and scrub cabinets as worship. 

 Toilets have to be cleaned, but Sean can, the kids can, Abbie can, or they can hire it out. It’s a task. It’s not a precious act of service or worship any more than me typing out this post is. I think telling women cleaning is worship keeps them on a hamster wheel trying to stay content with objectively hard and boring things. There are fulfilling things about domestic work but it  also can just be stuff adults do. 

If, like Brother Lawrence, you approach your chores in an attitude of worship, scrub on in holy contemplation. Your attitude toward your chores belongs to you. But it is not an effective witness to anything but your own vanity to be on the interwebs all day long, saying "LOOK AT ME, ME, ME cleaning as worship because I am holier than you". Braggie can only feel good about herself when she feels superior to others. She's exhausting.

[neuroticcat]

I also struggle with the ppl like Abbie who say SAHMs in particular should strive for Brother Lawrence model, as though it’s applicable to everyone especially domestic work. It’s exhausting. 

[SisterCupcake]

3 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I am not a women’s studies expert, but I think the reason 2nd wave feminists used the vocabulary she is trotting out as a straw man is b/c women didn’t have agency. That’s a very different thing than today, when women have freedom to make different career choices.

As someone's with a WMS MA degree, you hit the nail on the head. Women didn't have a choice back then to be a SAHM, now that they've got choices, no one cares. The point is choice. This is one of the first myths I had to dispel when I taught WMS 101 to college students. The point is not stay at home mom pr not, it's freedom of choice or not.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, SisterCupcake said:

As someone's with a WMS MA degree, you hit the nail on the head. Women didn't have a choice back then to be a SAHM, now that they've got choices, no one cares. The point is choice. This is one of the first myths I had to dispel when I taught WMS 101 to college students. The point is not stay at home mom pr not, it's freedom of choice or not.

What’s sad is that now a lot of women don’t have a choice due to economic reasons, not social reasons. Which is just sad. Women fought for the choice but thanks to very low paying jobs, expensive day care, and expensive college, many don’t have a choice. 

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

And I've said it before and I'll say it again - the kind of people Braggie likes to think want to persecute here her in East Texas (liberals, atheists, feminists, the ebil gheyz) are all staying far, far away from her.  We're here, but we avoid people like her like the plague.  No one in Tyler gives a rat's ass about Braggie and her passel of kids, except possibly the poor servers who have to wait on them in restaurants.

On the kids eat free days

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I have never met anyone who looked down on women who stayed home and told them they should try to work.

I have encountered that but it has always been in the context of "if they can't afford kids/childcare they shouldn't have them, why should we pay" ranting about family benefits, and almost always with a subtext of classism, ageism, sexism and racism included towards the target of the rants - and it's been a lot more common coming from men than women. 

[neuroticcat]

That's a great point. I have for sure heard that directed at single moms or people who participate in government programs. 

I should clarify: I have never heard middle-class stay-at-home-mothers told they are glorified maids or whatever. In fact, a lot of times the messaging is exactly what Abbie is doing, especially in Christian communities: You are doing the Most Important, Highest Calling work.

Once I finally figured out that the impossible picture didn't apply to most of history - or most of the world today - where women are the economic pillars, I understood. Modern day white evangelical patriarchy is depressing as anything for so many reasons, but one is that all it can offer is spiritualized language for what many would consider either hobbies (someone who enjoys home decorating, for instance) or just essential parts of adulting *in addition to vocational work*. I mean, what do they think working mothers do? Not feed their families? Not clean their houses? Not try and make "home" a haven for their kids?

Anyway, I get mad when I think of how many years I believed this and how much effort I spent trying to create meaningful work out of domestic tasks, i.e. Scheduling their Chores or whatever. 

[Cults-r-us]

On 1/18/2023 at 9:40 PM, danvillebelle said:

Adding: she stated that when the boys and Della were tiny, she would load them up with snacks and sippy cups and drag them thrifting with her for HOURS.  Her word, not mine.

I know the thought of thrifting for hours, digging through piles and racks, while keeping 3 littles from touching anything or getting lost, sounds like heaven on earth, amirite?

[Cults-r-us]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:05 AM, danvillebelle said:

I listened so you don't have to:  M is for Mama Podcast, episode 2 - "why do you have so many kids"  

Nothing new here to any of us - a long, rambling explanation with anecdotes about why Braggie never thought she'd have a big family but was somehow simultaneously convicted by the Lord to leave her fertility to him from the time she was a young teen.  She talked about how she was a huge tomboy and fell off the back of a 4-wheeler once, and when it ran over her leg, her only thought was "I hope the boys don't leave me behind next time over this."  She talked about being in pre-marital counselling with her first engagement when she was 19, and that when she expressed to her fiancé and the pastor that she was against BC and why, they looked at her like she had 3 heads.  She is really a rambler when she speaks, the stories go all over the place with no central thread.  Of course, she had to bring up all the twin tropes - she never wanted them, then she had two sets, oh did you know they were born on the same day, Theo had a twin but it was lost.   She ends every rambling with the classic christianese "I just want to encourage you."  As I have said in the past, it is jarring to me to watch her speak.  Her face doesn't move, there's hardly any expression, when she smiles it looks fake and never goes past the corners of her mouth. 

"Um" count in 31 minutes: 92

ETA: I'm confused as to what she thinks she is offering with this podcast.  Presumably, her leg humpers are the ones who pressured her to do it, and yet so far, she hasn't said one thing they don't already know.  Probably just another way to feed her narcissism, drum up more book sales, and get her smug face on Spotify.

A crunchy mom friend or two with whom to exchange banter on her podcast would help except that she has no friends and doesn't banter well with others.

[KWLand]

I’m sure she gets comments and negativity because like s the fundies she puts things out there as the right way for everyone.  You either do it her way or you are wrong.  So she gets push back. It’s not persecution for her being a Christian or living how she does, it’s for stating things as if there is only one way.   
 

when you realize there is more than one right way to live and most people are trying their very best, you don’t get push back.  It’s kind of crazy that way.  

[danvillebelle]

I listened so you don't have to: M is for Mama Podcast Episode 3.  Brace yourself for the title:

"A Case For Being "Unoffendable""

Did you guffaw as loud as I did? This from the woman who gets offended constantly over perceived persecutions and judgments that don't even fucking exist and then bloviates all over IG about them.  She was wearing her Paddington hat today and her hair looks like cocker spaniel ears again, just shorter than it used to be.

She rambled and rambled about how we should not be offended and be more forgiving of people.  Choice, telling quotes:

"Our offense can often be based in pride"

"I have a more unoffendable personality than some naturally"

"I don't have a wide swing of emotions" 

She said, "we need to avoid doing offensive things and put a guard over our mouths (keyboards)".  Well, Braggie, you need to take that advice when you give your smug, snarky replies in your IG stories a la "I'm not sure I understand the question" when you know *exactly* what people are saying.  She ended by shitting on her kids, of course - Honor had the gall to leave his birthday toys sitting around the house (ON HIS BIRTHDAY) and when he, a tired, overstimulated 6yo, was told to pick up a game for the 2nd or 3rd time, he mumbled "I didn't want it anyway".  It was a gift from Theo, Theo heard him and of course got his feelings hurt.  So Braggie and Shaun had to turn this into a big lesson and lectured Honor on kindness and gratitude and blah blah blah.  Not sure what her point was, other than Theo is not unoffendable yet but with their expert parenting he surely will be someday. 

"Um" count in 26 minutes: 40

[JermajestyDuggar]

Braggie is about as self aware as Jill. But that’s how it goes with narcissists. 

[danvillebelle]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Braggie is about as self aware as Jill. But that’s how it goes with narcissists. 

Right?  Braggie always makes me think of the episode of The Office where Michael says about Andy "I don't see how someone can have so little self-awareness." 

[QuiverFullOfGoats]

4 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

I listened so you don't have to: M is for Mama Podcast Episode 3.  Brace yourself for the title:

"A Case For Being "Unoffendable""

Did you guffaw as loud as I did? This from the woman who gets offended constantly over perceived persecutions and judgments that don't even fucking exist and then bloviates all over IG about them.  She was wearing her Paddington hat today and her hair looks like cocker spaniel ears again, just shorter than it used to be.

She rambled and rambled about how we should not be offended and be more forgiving of people.  Choice, telling quotes:

"Our offense can often be based in pride"

"I have a more unoffendable personality than some naturally"

"I don't have a wide swing of emotions" 

She said, "we need to avoid doing offensive things and put a guard over our mouths (keyboards)".  Well, Braggie, you need to take that advice when you give your smug, snarky replies in your IG stories a la "I'm not sure I understand the question" when you know *exactly* what people are saying.  She ended by shitting on her kids, of course - Honor had the gall to leave his birthday toys sitting around the house (ON HIS BIRTHDAY) and when he, a tired, overstimulated 6yo, was told to pick up a game for the 2nd or 3rd time, he mumbled "I didn't want it anyway".  It was a gift from Theo, Theo heard him and of course got his feelings hurt.  So Braggie and Shaun had to turn this into a big lesson and lectured Honor on kindness and gratitude and blah blah blah.  Not sure what her point was, other than Theo is not unoffendable yet but with their expert parenting he surely will be someday. 

"Um" count in 26 minutes: 40

Doesn’t have a wide swing of emotions?  I guess her admitted problem with rage, which led her to create a ‘gentleness challenge’ for that very reason, doesn’t count.  

 

[Cults-r-us]

24 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfGoats said:

Doesn’t have a wide swing of emotions?  I guess her admitted problem with rage, which led her to create a ‘gentleness challenge’ for that very reason, doesn’t count.  

 

Her 3 emotions: rage, pride, greed.

[Ozlsn]

9 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

"I have a more unoffendable personality than some naturally

Of all the things this made me laugh out loud.  Of course she does, and it's all natural!

5 hours ago, QuiverFullOfGoats said:

Doesn’t have a wide swing of emotions?  I guess her admitted problem with rage, which led her to create a ‘gentleness challenge’ for that very reason, doesn’t count.  

Maybe she's working on the theory that rage is a "masculine" thing and therefore not an emotion - which is why angry men in workplaces aren't labelled "emotional" even when they totally lose it.