Webster4Eva 11: They don't know it's not vitally important to teach a 5 year old how to choose a man

[Giraffe]

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

For the life of me I can not understand the women who are sicker than dogs while PG, and with a houseful of kids and an obsession with neatness and order continuing to get PG.   In my logical mind this makes zero sense. 

ISB. I really think some of these women feel like being a mommy martyr makes them better Christians and more “purified” in a way. M.is.for.mama is a great example of this. She despises her kids and treats them like sh*t but then she’ll post stupid platitudes like “hard is not the same as bad” as though that removes the abuse & neglect she heaps on her kids. 

[CanadianMamam]

Lexi's reaction of "another one" and 'a lot of work" stood out. I think she hasn't been trained into submission like Allie but has been picking up slack.

I also found it interesting that when Alyssa kept saying "I am never doing this again", John was like "I have heard that before".

[SassyPants]

Just thought of something…wonder who this baby will look like: the Allie/Macie duo (although I think Maci did get Alyssa’s rounder face vs John’s longer face which Allie inherited or more favor Lexi/Zoey who both look like Alyssa? Those kids are distinctly John or Alyssa. Tie breaker to come-

[CanadianMamam]

I think Maci and Finley (Erin's youngest) look so much alike with their round faces and big blue eyes. So I think Maci is more Bates. 

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

Lexi's reaction of "another one" and 'a lot of work" stood out. I think she hasn't been trained into submission like Allie but has been picking up slack.

I also found it interesting that when Alyssa kept saying "I am never doing this again", John was like "I have heard that before".

I didn’t watch the kids’ reactions, but J/A have always said that Lexi is the wild one, which could mean she doesn’t easily comply or accept their BS. 

[CanadianMamam]

So I watched and Alyssa seems miserable. She said that if it is a boy, she'll feel pressure to have another and when the girls all kept guessing boy, she kept correcting them, so either she knows it is a girl or she is being sincere with not wanting a boy. 

She seems so unhappy though. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

So I watched and Alyssa seems miserable. She said that if it is a boy, she'll feel pressure to have another and when the girls all kept guessing boy, she kept correcting them, so either she knows it is a girl or she is being sincere with not wanting a boy. 

She seems so unhappy though. 

Seems about right. Fundie indoctrination so strong that you keep having kids even though you don’t want to. Like Braggie. And probably some others that would never admit how miserable they are. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

For the life of me I can not understand the women who are sicker than dogs while PG, and with a houseful of kids and an obsession with neatness and order continuing to get PG.   In my logical mind this makes zero sense. Does anyone really think John ( while working FT) and with Ally’s help Is maintaining their home, diet, laundry, the girls’ appearance to Alyssa’s standards? I’m betting that’s a tense home environment. 
 

In terms of the dog, since they promised the girls a dog, I hope they don’t use the baby as an excuse why they aren’t getting the dog. That could only build resentment toward that new baby.

First of all, women don't get pregnant by themselves, usually a man is involved. Alyssa and John are both responsible for the decision to have more kids. 

Second of all, Alyssa keeps having kids, because she was raised in a cult where it's considered Godly to have more babies and birth control, etc. are considered sinful. It can be very hard for people raised in that kind of environment to shake off that mindset. I think Alyssa probably has a hard time being able to truly explain and admit what she wants to do about having children. She may not even be able to admit in her own mind what she wants, because of her upbringing.  

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

ISB. I really think some of these women feel like being a mommy martyr makes them better Christians and more “purified” in a way. M.is.for.mama is a great example of this. She despises her kids and treats them like sh*t but then she’ll post stupid platitudes like “hard is not the same as bad” as though that removes the abuse & neglect she heaps on her kids. 

Braggie seems to love how much of martyr she is and I don't get that vibe from Alyssa. I think she truly feels stuck.

[freethemall]

2 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Right? Dear Rufus, it's not like they have been parenting 4 parakeets and then suddenly find out they are going to have an octopus. Geez. But I guess in fundieworld, it may as well be. 

But but but how do they coordinate matching outfits if he can't be in the same dress as his sisters???

1 hour ago, medimus said:

In the video it really seems like this was an oops baby and at least when most of the filming was done they didn't know the sex. Is the grand finale thing perhaps because they told everyone their previous baby was their last and this is now definitely definitely their last? Alyssa comes across as not wanting to be pregnant ever again and hoping it is a girl so she doesn't feel like she has to have another baby so the boy has a brother.

Oops among these people is bullshit,  esp if their only birth control is NFP. You had unprotected sex, you made a choice to potentially conceive. No oops, no surprise, just basic biology.

[CanadianMamam]

Alyssa admitted to using some kind of birth control in the past though. So she might be the only one I would believe an actual oops from, especially given how truly unhappy she seems. 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[neuroticcat]

25 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

She may not even be able to admit in her own mind what she wants, because of her upbringing.  

Braggie seems to love how much of martyr she is and I don't get that vibe from Alyssa. I think she truly feels stuck.

I think this is a huge piece of it. If you say you don't want more children, you're rejecting God's blessings and saying you know better than He does. If you say it's hard, you're told to pray more or choose joy or whatever. If you go full brainwashed, you start an instagram bragging about how it's the best or right way to do it and share your coping skills with everyone. There really isn't freedom to choose.

I think there's also a sheepishness in the "grande finale" or "I've heard that before." They certainly don't have to announce, but if they do, I imagine they feel the need to explain why, knowing she has significant health issues, has said she doesn't necessarily want more kids, and they said they were done, they are expecting again. Also, they have to juggle their excitement - genuine and whatever they feel they ought to feel. How could it be anything but stilted?

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

Alyssa admitted to using som making of birth control in the past though. So she might be the only one I would believe an actual oops from, espexially given how truly unhappy she seems.

Some forms of birth control work better than others. Some people may need a different form of birth control to truly prevent pregnancy. Alyssa and John seem to have had this happen before and they may need to do something differently if they don't want more kids. 

[SassyPants]

43 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

First of all, women don't get pregnant by themselves, usually a man is involved. Alyssa and John are both responsible for the decision to have more kids. 

Second of all, Alyssa keeps having kids, because she was raised in a cult where it's considered Godly to have more babies and birth control, etc. are considered sinful. It can be very hard for people raised in that kind of environment to shake off that mindset. I think Alyssa probably has a hard time being able to truly explain and admit what she wants to do about having children. She may not even be able to admit in her own mind what she wants, because of her upbringing.  

Braggie seems to love how much of martyr she is and I don't get that vibe from Alyssa. I think she truly feels stuck.

In my world since a woman uses her body and assumes all the physical risk, she ultimately makes the decision on if she is open to a pregnancy.

Do your thoughts also apply to abortion? Does a potential father get an equal voice? In my world the person using their body to grow/support a fetus and who might lose their life in the process gets a far bigger say.

I understand other people think otherwise-TL; DR: a woman has far more skin in the game where reproduction is concerned. Further, in the past, John has said that “ the choice for more kids is left to Alyssa.”

[SassyPants]

Just a thought- when did Lawson get married? She could have already been pregnant and feeling unwell which caused her to miss the wedding. She might be due in January. If so, they might already know the sex.

[CanadianMamam]

5 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Just a thought- when did Lawson get married? She could have already been pregnant and feeling unwell which caused her to miss the wedding. She might be due in January. If so, they might already know the sex.

May. She said she is due in Spring and that they found out after they agreed to take the puppy (which was 5-6 weeks ago). 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

32 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

In my world since a woman uses her body and assumes all the physical risk, she ultimately makes the decision on if she is open to a pregnancy.

Do your thoughts also apply to abortion? Does a potential father get an equal voice? In my world the person using their body to grow/support a fetus and who might lose their life in the process gets a far bigger say.

I understand other people think otherwise-TL; DR: a woman has far more skin in the game where reproduction is concerned. Further, in the past, John has said that “ the choice for more kids is left to Alyssa.”

I support women and their reproductive choices.

In my world, both partners try to be responsible for their reproductive choices during consensual sex. Men who don't want kids wear condoms, etc. When two people chose to prevent pregnancy, both of them need to be on-board with the decision and willing to do their part (like a wear a condom).

Yes there is harm in not allowing women to make choices, but there is also harm in only holding women accountable for getting pregnant. If a man choses to have sex with the woman, then he also needs to be ready to deal with the consequences. Leaving the chances of pregnancy completely up to the woman is a way to not take responsibility. 

Here's an article from the National Library Medicine about how it is a burden that women have to take on. (link)

From the article: 

Quote

In the United States, responsibility for preventing pregnancy in heterosexual relationships disproportionately falls on women. While the biotechnological landscape of available methods may explain the assignment of the physical burden for contraception to women, this does not mean that the concomitant time, attention, and stress preventing pregnancy requires must also be primarily assumed by women. Building on work identifying healthcare providers as contributors to the construction of normative ideas about reproduction, this study analyzed 52 contraceptive counseling visits with women who reported they did not want future children for the construction of responsibility for the mental and emotional aspects of contraception. Offering a case of how gender inequality is (re)produced through clinical encounters, findings demonstrate that clinicians discursively constructed these responsibilities as women’s and point to structural aspects of the visit itself that reify this unequal burden as normal.

 

[CanadianMamam]

AI think Alyssa is an odd place with her sisters as well. She doesn't fit with Michael, Tori and Erin who all drink the kool-aid and are happy (or try to be) with the fundie life but she also doesn't exactly fit with the younger sisters who will likely have much smaller families and have jobs outside the house and husband's who at least appear to pull their weight.

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

AI think Alyssa is an odd place with her sisters as well. She doesn't fit with Michael, Tori and Erin who all drink the kool-aid and are happy (or try to be) with the fundie life but she also doesn't exactly fit with the younger sisters who will likely have much smaller families and have jobs outside the house and husband's who at least appear to pull their weight.

She’s also in Florida. But the thing is, Alyssa does seem to get along with everyone. Maybe she’s the type that hates drama so she always makes sure she isn’t stepping on toes. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

AI think Alyssa is an odd place with her sisters as well. She doesn't fit with Michael, Tori and Erin who all drink the kool-aid and are happy (or try to be) with the fundie life but she also doesn't exactly fit with the younger sisters who will likely have much smaller families and have jobs outside the house and husband's who at least appear to pull their weight.

Maybe she fits fine with Michael, Erin and Tori. Who knows? You can be friends with someone very different than you.

[CanadianMamam]

I didn't mean she didn't get along with her sisters, she seems to get along with eveyone. More that she seems on the outside of both "groups", if that makes sense. I think she'd be happier with a life more like the younger sisters, but that doesn't really seem like an option for her. 

[neuroticcat]

I don't know if she has the same blood clotting disorder as her sisters, but hormonal birth control is not recommended for clotting factors. It already increases an increased risk for DVTs.

[medimus]

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

I don't know if she has the same blood clotting disorder as her sisters, but hormonal birth control is not recommended for clotting factors. It already increases an increased risk for DVTs.

This is only true for combined (oestrogen and progesteron) hormonal birth control. Progesteron only is generally okay (obviously depends on person's individual background, but generally doesn't increase the risk of blood clots). And progesteron only pills are much more reliable than they were even a few years ago now, equal to combined.

10 hours ago, freethemall said:

But but but how do they coordinate matching outfits if he can't be in the same dress as his sisters???

Oops among these people is bullshit,  esp if their only birth control is NFP. You had unprotected sex, you made a choice to potentially conceive. No oops, no surprise, just basic biology.

I suppose it depends how they were doing NFP. In my job I have met too many (mainly young) women who think that just not having sex on the days an app says you are fertile is doing NFP/FAM and end up pregnant, but done properly it can work for the right women (not with an app), yes the chance of pregnancy is higher than with hormonal contraception, but some women prefer that slightly higher risk.

[Tdoc72]

11 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

So I watched and Alyssa seems miserable. She said that if it is a boy, she'll feel pressure to have another and when the girls all kept guessing boy, she kept correcting them, so either she knows it is a girl or she is being sincere with not wanting a boy. 

She seems so unhappy though. 

I thought she was setting us up and kept saying girl so she can later have a big gender reveal of finally a boy!  
She wouldn’t say how far along she is but I don’t think it’s very far. Not sure why that is a big secret. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

3 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I don't know if she has the same blood clotting disorder as her sisters, but hormonal birth control is not recommended for clotting factors. It already increases an increased risk for DVTs.

Of the first 6 girls, so far she is the only who has never been diagnosed with that disorder. 

[irish_dancing_canadian]

Not surprised, do genuinely hope she's done after this one but I'll believe it when I see it.