(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 48: "Happy New Year to You [,Josh]... In Jail!"

[Mama Mia]

2 hours ago, Cheetah said:

I hope Anna is properly engaged for her children's Christmas but I fear that she only perks up during her phone calls with Josh and barely keeps it together otherwise.  I hope I'm wrong.  

That would be one advantage of the huge mass of Duggar’s - mom is probably still very distracted and depressed, but there’s a metric ton of aunts, uncles and cousins around for distraction. 

[Beermeet]

Well, hopefully Anna's very practiced cheerful countenance kicks in.   It's a delicate balance I'm not sure Anna or any Duggars are up to it.  First huge problem is no therapy.  I would never,  I know I can't handle such a thing without help.  

I hope they feel safe. 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

That would be one advantage of the huge mass of Duggar’s - mom is probably still very distracted and depressed, but there’s a metric ton of aunts, uncles and cousins around for distraction. 

Plus Secret Santa, a nice holiday spread (did Josh have rec time today?), and hopefully tons of phone calls and presents from folks out of town.

[Someone Out There]

5 hours ago, Beermeet said:

My ex properly Jewish boss told me when I asked about the no pork,  that he wasn't quite sure exactly why.  He thought it was probably a really important health measure. Due to the cooking properly issue.  He was like, "we're smart, people were getting sick so Rabbi made a law" lol

We discussed the cloven foot and the general 'pigs are dirty" but we got into the real why and I agree. It would make practical sense. 

Idk if I'm making sense but I remembered that conversation.  My ex boss was fun to talk to. A cradle Catholic ( religious at the time)  and an a  religious Jewish man discussing and asking each other questions; with humor and respect ( remember that?).  30 year age difference.  His wife was equally awesome too.  She taught the whole office to crochet!  Good times, great man/family!  His son's name was Adam and for a few years he dated a woman named Eve!  Poor kids, their families and pretty much everyone thought they should marry due to that.  Poor kids, of course they didn't. Too much meddling. 

From what I gather diseases fairly easily transfer between Humans and Pigs as we're quite similar. I think Pigs also don't have the ability to get rid of the diseases they catch (I could be wrong about this, but it sticks in my memory for some reason). I believe Pig farms in the country I live in have strict biosecurity measures because of this.  So yes, the general theory is that people were getting sick from consuming pork so they put it in the religious texts to not eat pork. A number of the religious bans on food probably have historical reasons behind them.

[Beermeet]

21 minutes ago, Someone Out There said:

From what I gather diseases fairly easily transfer between Humans and Pigs as we're quite similar. I think Pigs also don't have the ability to get rid of the diseases they catch (I could be wrong about this, but it sticks in my memory for some reason). I believe Pig farms in the country I live in have strict biosecurity measures because of this.  So yes, the general theory is that people were getting sick from consuming pork so they put it in the religious texts to not eat pork. A number of the religious bans on food probably have historical reasons behind them.

It's fascinating to look into!   Also, a good thing to ponder for clarity.

[zee_four]

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If someone could sue for not being allowed to keep kosher just having kosher beverages means nothing as the rest of the meal isn't kosher.

I'm still curious as to why they're calling out the beverages only as being kosher.

Very good point. I kind of assumed the big deal about the kosher beverages had an equivalent on the food side. Maybe not the specific food mentioned but possibly other dishes. But as Cathy D once there's a lot of assumptions being made here on my behalf, and you're right it wouldn't make sense to push kosher about beverages but not the food. Hmmm... maybe this is the real old time classic mystery that Smuggar's lawyer promised??

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, AuntCloud said:

I take it as “there’s so little actual milk in this so-called beverage, it can’t even be considered dairy” (and there for you can have it with meat).

Dairy in and of itself is kosher, as long as it’s consumed with an appropriate degree of separation from meat - 4 or 6 hours, depending. 

I don’t think that’s it.  The designation would be parve, not just kosher, wouldn’t it?

My best guess is the beverages just happen to be kosher and they are making a point of advertising it so inmates who want kosher can’t demand a different beverage.  But it’s pretty weird.

8 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I keep wondering if it's a legal loophole so that prisoners who keep kosher can be offered liquid calories if they won't eat the food.

Gosh, I hope not!  I am assuming the “kosher beverage” is stuff like coffee, reconstituted juice (apple juice or cranberry juice “cocktail”), and possibly skim powdered milk.   You’d need a lot of drinks to get to the caloric requirements!

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, Beermeet said:

My ex properly Jewish boss told me when I asked about the no pork,  that he wasn't quite sure exactly why.  He thought it was probably a really important health measure. Due to the cooking properly issue.  He was like, "we're smart, people were getting sick so Rabbi made a law" lol

We discussed the cloven foot and the general 'pigs are dirty" but we got into the real why and I agree. It would make practical sense. 

Idk if I'm making sense but I remembered that conversation.  My ex boss was fun to talk to. A cradle Catholic ( religious at the time)  and an a  religious Jewish man discussing and asking each other questions; with humor and respect ( remember that?).  30 year age difference.  His wife was equally awesome too.  She taught the whole office to crochet!  Good times, great man/family!  His son's name was Adam and for a few years he dated a woman named Eve!  Poor kids, their families and pretty much everyone thought they should marry due to that.  Poor kids, of course they didn't. Too much meddling. 

My favorite theory about the no-pork rule in Judaism and Islam was that pigs compete with humans for food in the Middle East (but not elsewhere).  The resources needed to feed pigs could feed people or other animals that would provide more food for people.  The pig, which provides rich and delicious meat, would be a luxury item that could be raised only at the expense of people, so it is in the best interests of the community to make it forbidden. (This theory is promoted by cultural anthropologist Marvin Harris. One of his books is Of Pigs and Cows and Witches.)

Another theory is that most of the forbidden animals are carnivores and scavengers who would eat human flesh if they got it.  Pigs will eat almost anything.

My very favorite legend comes from Bahrain.  When God created man out of clay, He pinched off the belly button and from that little lump of clay, He made the pig.  That’s why you don’t eat pork: because it is (a) related to humans, (b) something God didn’t want to be part of humans.  (A student told me this many years ago.)

[BernRul]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:33 AM, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

The floodgates are now open. In a year or so the Prime documentary finally exposing to the world what the Duggars really are will be streaming. Expect a tell-all or two to piggy back. More discussion about them, more scrutiny over patriarchy, child abuse, and Quiverfull.  I really thought this would happen back in 2015, but Jim Bob somehow pulled off another show instead. Josh's conviction has ended everything. Jim Bob is toothless. He can continue to enrich Travis Story by paying him to sue anyone who breathes a bad word about him, but nothing will work. It's over.

I think the family will eventually be splintered into smithereens. It happens with all reality show families. Sooner or later.

2015 was pre-MeToo. Its not always apparent, but when you look back you can see a stark line separating pre-MeToo culture and post-MeToo effect on every aspect of Western society. The impact of Me Too has really changed how we view sexual violence particularly against women. 2015 society at large was way more likely to blame victims and excuse perpetrators. Now its better (not perfect but better).

[ElizaB]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:09 PM, Freejin said:

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet but have people heard about the documentary about the Duggars that is being produced by the LuLaRich producers?? I don’t know if I can wait for this to come out. 

I also just had the random thought of just how SURREAL it must be for a Duggar child to come to this board and realize how many people are talking about them. 

I was thinking about this- and all fundi kids who may come here. Wouldn't it be neat if there was a button on the first page that said something like, Are you someone we discuss here? Click on this. And then the link could have a statement that was made with help from everyone on here that basically says we have a problem with the system itself. Why we think the patriarchy is bad and how children are brainwashed in this system. We could also say that support can be found for those who wish to leave. 

[47of74]

I just had this article pop up for me in FB news

Quote

The toxic Duggar media empire has been destroyed by Josh's well-deserved conviction, and an upcoming documentary stands to rub salt in the wound.

This is a good thing. The Duggars and those like them need to be exposed.

But Josh was not just one bad apple seeking to spoil the bunch. The Duggars never needed Josh's help to be dangerous.

His scandals (and now conviction) are just a canary in the coalmine signaling the real danger of these extreme cults.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

58 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

I was thinking about this- and all fundi kids who may come here. Wouldn't it be neat if there was a button on the first page that said something like, Are you someone we discuss here? Click on this. And then the link could have a statement that was made with help from everyone on here that basically says we have a problem with the system itself. Why we think the patriarchy is bad and how children are brainwashed in this system. We could also say that support can be found for those who wish to leave. 

All fundy kidults are not created equal.    Besides obviously Josh, but even people like Christopher Maxwell have contributed to intense sexism in their now defunct 1TonRamp.  Or Jed who ran for office already in an attempt impose their version of Christianity on the rest of society.  I can feel bad for the kids they once were, without giving them a pass for being garbage adults.

Even someone like Anna, both a victim of her upbringing and victimizer of her children, support will be a complex and nuanced thing for many people.  Look at any thread discussing her and you'll see people who give her a complete pass and others who hold her totally accountable and every point on the spectrum inbetween.

Besides the impossibility of crafting a statement that would apply across the board any there is no statement that would speak for thousands of members.

FJ is a very supportive community and I've personally benefited from the compassion and wisdom of people here over the years. but we are emphatically and legally not a support group.

 

[SPHASH]

I wonder how Josh enjoyed his Christmas in jail.  Are they allowed visitors on holidays.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

I wonder how Josh enjoyed his Christmas in jail.  Are they allowed visitors on holidays.

Website just says they can schedule visits, either online or at the jail.

All visits there are virtual due to covid.  They can either pay a fee to visit online, or visit for free if they go to lock up to use the kiosks with a phone and video screen.

Limit is two adults and two children and the adults have to be on the approved visitor list.  Idk how that works with doing it virtually from home, Maybe someone monitors the calls and would kill the feed if more people jumped on the call, but they couldn't police other people sitting in if they were out of the camera line.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Until a few days ago I thought the food they got in prison was along the lines of hospital food or public school meals without the choice.  I learn so much from you guys.

I was just thinking every time I've been hospitalized looking forward to meals was the highlight.  Food wasn't amazing, but was good and it broke up my inner conflict between pain and boredom.  Everyone in my family is like that, the excitement of filling out the menu...we could just be weirdos without hobbies.

He won't even have those to look forward to as bad as some of you say they are.  I am glad Anna can't run down there with Chickenetti and Bundt cake to spare him from being treated like everyone else.  

[Bobology]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Maybe someone monitors the calls and would kill the feed if more people jumped on the call, but they couldn't police other people sitting in if they were out of the camera line.

Maybe the calls ARE monitored and that is where the fee goes. If other Duggar adults were in the background off camera, what is the chance they could all be quiet? I think they'd be busted.

I kind of hope that whoever is in charge of meal-planning for the Wash. County jail has TaterTot Casserole and/or Chicken-etti in rotation. It would have to be thinned down even more than the Duggars do because budgeting, but it might be funny forJosh to be served either of those monstrosities while in jail. I've never tried them, but I say "monstrosities" because they each have a life of their own, at least here on FJ. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Bobology said:

Maybe the calls ARE monitored and that is where the fee goes. If other Duggar adults were in the background off camera, what is the chance they could all be quiet? I think they'd be busted.

I kind of hope that whoever is in charge of meal-planning for the Wash. County jail has TaterTot Casserole and/or Chicken-etti in rotation. It would have to be thinned down even more than the Duggars do because budgeting, but it might be funny forJosh to be served either of those monstrosities while in jail. I've never tried them, but I say "monstrosities" because they each have a life of their own, at least here on FJ. 

I've never had it, but I know a lot of people do like TTC if it's made properly.  I've seen some recipes from snarkers that sounded yummy.

Chickenetti is what it would look like if I tried to explain tetrazzini when the edibles kick in.  

 

[Dandruff]

11 minutes ago, Bobology said:

I kind of hope that whoever is in charge of meal-planning for the Wash. County jail has TaterTot Casserole and/or Chicken-etti in rotation.

Let's not forget BBQ tuna.  It sounds vile to begin with and the jail version would probably be much worse.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Dandruff said:

Let's not forget BBQ tuna.  It sounds vile to begin with and the jail version would probably be much worse.

I'd forgotten all about that.  Clearly my subconscious protecting me from the thought of this.

[Dandruff]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'd forgotten all about that.  Clearly my subconscious protecting me from the thought of this.

I wish my subconscious liked me as much.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Dandruff said:

I wish my subconscious liked me as much.

Facetiming my daughter and future son in law talking about holiday traditions and the look on his face when he was introduced to pickled herring and egg nog for New Year's was definitely a BBQ tuna face!  

[onekidanddone]

7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Facetiming my daughter and future son in law talking about holiday traditions and the look on his face when he was introduced to pickled herring and egg nog for New Year's was definitely a BBQ tuna face!  

Do you mean pickled herring with egg nog? Please swear to me on Rufus and Beansie you don’t mean in the same meal.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, onekidanddone said:

Do you mean pickled herring with egg nog? Please swear to me on Rufus and Beansie you don’t mean in the same meal.

It's not a full meal!  At midnight tradition is a piece of pickled herring and a bit of egg nog.  

The herring thing goes back in my dad's family forever, but I added the egg nog as a child.  Jokes on me, I hate it now but I'm stuck!

[imokit]

41 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I was just thinking every time I've been hospitalized looking forward to meals was the highlight.  Food wasn't amazing, but was good and it broke up my inner conflict between pain and boredom.  Everyone in my family is like that, the excitement of filling out the menu...we could just be weirdos without hobbies.

The last time I got admitted to hospital I refused to eat their food.  I had a packed lunch with me (I was at work when I decided to visit the emergency room) which I had for dinner and then had fruit and toast.

I've seen how English hospital food is prepared and its disgusting.

I was also admitted to a hospital which got in trouble a few years before for people getting sick(er) from hospital food.

Struggling to imagine a hospital with decent food - other than fruit, toast and English biscuits (though to be fair you could live off those for many days).

[47of74]

58 minutes ago, Bobology said:

Maybe the calls ARE monitored and that is where the fee goes.

Some of it is fees for monitoring.  The rest - to be blunt - are kickbacks and serve no legitimate purpose.  Josh can afford the calls.  Others who are in jail for much less serious offenses and their families often cannot.