(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 48: "Happy New Year to You [,Josh]... In Jail!"

[neuroticcat]

3 hours ago, Bobology said:

In an earlier thread there had been some discussion about how Josh found his first internet porn. Many of us have wondered about JB's motivation to both pay for Josh's defense and have amnesia on the pre-trial stand. Some have said that maybe Josh is privy to some of JB's sketchy financial shenanigans assuming there are any, which I believe there are. What if JB, after seeing that the head-shaving and pond-digging did not deter Josh's molestation ways, decided that perhaps adult porn would keep Josh  occupied until marriage and JB, himself, showed Josh and allowed Josh to secretly view it? It sounds kind of far-fetched, but JB is very poor father, after all. But it kind of makes sense because Josh got to use the computers for that purpose when they were supposedly all controlled and locked down from non family-friendly sites. This could also be why Michelle always cooed that they didn't watch any TV, which they clearly did from what we've seen on siblings' SM. She may have been over-compensating. It could have been JB, not Josh, who "deleted" all those porn files found by the Fedovsky kid. Josh may have been better at deleting them.

If JB did show or at least allow Josh special access to view porn, that could give JB a big incentive to do everything he could for Josh during the charges and trial in order to try to keep Josh from letting it be known how his porn-watching began. These are big "ifs" of course.

Meh, I think no one in IBLP would ever consider this. Whatever deceptive practices they do, I think JB and Michelle do believe all the purity culture stuff. I think it makes sense they shamed him, controlled him, and then married him off quickly. 
 

I think Josh was a good liar and lied to everyone and took advantage of the cult’s forgive everything no matter what teaching. I bet he hid from them the degrees of his “relapse” in any of these behaviors and only dealt with it when caught. It’s very common for family members of sexual addicts to have betrayal trauma, and one key reason is because it’s so blindsiding to get lied to continually and they are so good at lying their way out of it! I think this is likely what Jill and Derick meant about attending the trial b/c they’ve been lied to so much; of course there is a lot they’ve been lied to by JB and Michelle but why would they expect that to come out at the trial? I imagine Josh spun a wild story explaining the investigation away and they all had suspicions but how to prove it? Anyway, I think JB and Michelle probably did whatever the cult suggested they do - ever accountable, prayer partners, marry him off, etc., but in the end they could not control him. I do think they were foolish to think he could be online at all and not return to that, though, but that could be from being internet naive at first. I mean, when the kids were little they probably were never online at all, so tiptoeing into that would have been with Josh-the-computer-expert leading the way as a teen.

[front hugs > duggs]

36 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

12-13 was the roughest age for me emotionally so it breaks my heart that Mac not only has to deal with her own pain, but we all know she's providing more child care for her siblings than is fair.  

 

Wow, same here, and I hadn’t realized Mac was at that age already!

The root of many of my mental health struggles stem from that time- parents divorce, mom dove head first into alcohol addiction and I became caretaker, narcissistic father, and on top of all that….PUBERTY!!! 🙃

I was the youngest, and only child at home. I can’t imagine how she must be carrying her own emotional trauma, as well as that of all her younger siblings. 

[rainbowbabycakes]

On 12/23/2021 at 12:09 AM, zee_four said:

LONG KIND OF OFF TOPIC BY NOW RESPONSE TO COMMENTS IN THE PREVIOUS THREAD- Just a heads up

Unfortunately I wasn't able to respond to any of the amazing replies I had on my post about ASL on the last thread, but I'll try my best to attempt to do justice when responding to some really amazing and wonderful posts about  so many FJers experiences with different languages and especially ASL/the Deaf community.

First off to our Glorious Leader 🙂 @HerNameIsBuffy The instance I specifically mentioned happened in Texas but I can't find the article for the life of me but that that was the lady who claimed to be a church interpreter and converting Dead/HoH instead of giving them life saving emergency info was her doing the Lawd's work or something) in September. But don't worry, there's a lot more where that came from. Here's one of the bigger recent stories, A woman from Tampa, Florida lied about being a certified ASL interpreter, she actually had literally no ASL knowledge, but they hired her and they had her interpret a major police press conference about a serial killer and moved her hands and literally waved her arms around. https://abc13.com/fake-sign-language-signs-interpreter-derlyn-roberts/2743729/
There's a bunch more links of ridiculous and dangerous times random people walked up and were allowed by county, state and national officials to be the ASL interpreter, literally putting the lives of DHH community members into Joe Blow's hands where his signs are just spirit fingers. :face palm:

  Hide contents

Another Floridian in Manatee knew a couple signs.... for BEER and PIZZA apparently... but that really wasn't what the Deaf community needed because he was supposed to be interpreting evacuation orders from Hurricane Irma. His only actual employment qualifications were as a lifeguard and that was iffy.  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/sign-language-interpreter-irma.html

Ah you can never forget the mentally ill man who somehow was picked to interpret a historic moment when Obama visited the Nelson Mandela memorial. You know something last minute and super low key. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-sign-language-interpreter-nelson-mandela-memorial-provokes-anger-flna2d11723934

Honestly there's too many to post, but it's bad. Here is a video from a Deaf individual who talks about why it is such a big deal and super dangerous these situations keep happening. https://youtu.be/hPDQPZ5Xq6k And this great CODA/SODA (child/sibling of Deaf adult) and Deaf community advocate wrote an article on it if that's more  style https://www.signlanguagenyc.com/emergency-management-systems-neglect-deaf-citizens/

@Caroline That's so great that you and your sister both understand that. I wish I was 10-15 years older so I could have been able to attend some of the new day schools for DHH in cities that use a bi-bi (bilingual./bicultural) methodology. Hearing babies learn their native language by well hearing it spoken from their earliest moments. Deaf and severely-profoundly Hard of Hearing babies can pick up a native language in the same exact way with the same fluency later in life, but it has to be an actual sign language and if you're in the US or English speaking Canada that would be ASL. So if a DHH baby is exposed to ASL like a hearing baby is exposed to verbal English, they'll follow similar language accusation patterns. Since 95% of DHH babies are born to hearing parents this becomes a big problem though. A lot of states now have Child Find or Healthy Child programs for disabled children where advocated go to the home and work with not just the baby but really they focus on the entire family depending on the "disability". For DHH babies those will be people with extensive knowledge of Deaf education and Deaf culture,  usually people like interpreters for young children and Deaf ed teachers, but also DHH adults, they're all fluent in ASL  for birth to age 3, They can help connect parents with other hearing parents of DHH babies and children, things like that. They try to present options for the family but give them a much broader understanding that Deafness is not really a disability in a lot of ways, it's just a different culture with a different language and dispelling myths that using any manual signs will make it so DHH children won't ever learn English, myths like that

There's no shame in wanting your child to be able to communicate with their hearing family and for the parents to want the best for their child educationally and professionally way down the line. Also unfortunately the first guidance they usually get is medical from hearing doctors who think just give them a cochlear implant and they'll be "normal" and you never have to think about the DHH community again. Okay they don't say that but it's implied. Not all DHH are candidates for CIs. Myself I was born with moderate to severe HL in one ear and severe HL in the other. Over the past 30+ years it has gotten worse and I"m hovering around a severe almost profound HL in one ear and the lowest level of severe in the other. But technology has improved so much unfortunately a lot of states Medicaid won't pay for hearing aids which mine, not top of the line, but middle to upper middle, are $7500 EACH. Luckily Hawai'i is an outlier, I had been waiting  like 4+ years in Colorado for hearing aids through Department of Vocational Rehab, where anyone who isn't loaded goes to get hearing aids. I use a crappy pair my audiologist gave me to tide me over. But anyway back on topic because of this residual hearing, a CI would be a bad idea. 

A CI is a super super invasive surgery where the skull of a young child is cut down to and parts of their ear are removed and replaced with a little mechanical contraption that is then connected into the skull under the scalp. So people later in life who hate they had to grow up with CIs (it happens a lot) are left profoundly Deaf. Anyway so there's' a lot of controversy. Kids with CIs don't hear like hearing people they are not "fixed". Especially people my age who had their CIs down in the late 80s and early 90s have  an extremely limited number of sounds the fake cochlea processes unlike the tens of thousands of hairs on an actual cochlea so everything can sound very mechanical. It'd be great if kids not parents could choose but for them to be the most "successful" they need to be done very young a step in their language development.

Anyway I was mainstreamed in the early 90s in a rural mountain school. We had a board of cooperative educational services (BOCES) that provided specialist teachers for like 5 different gigantic counties in NW Colorado so I saw an actually Deaf ed teacher like once a month maybe? Tops? But the only other option was for my mom to send me, at age 5 to Colorado Springs, hundreds of miles away over the mountains, to a really not great school. The late 80s and early to mid, even late 90s in some places, bilingual education hadn't been created really so there was a model called Total Communication or TC. Basically they used as many different methods to try to communicate with use, including 3 made up manual signing systems that were not natural languages like ASL or English and you couldn't acquire them for linguistic benefit. One was called Seeing Essential English (SEE 2) Signing Exact English (SEE 1) was the other. SEE 2 made you sign BUTTERFLY by mixing the sign for  BUTTER+FLY and ridiculous stuff like that I didn't use it much. SEE 1 was what i started with. For example in ASL you sign STORE then you point to yourself going toward where you just showed the store for "I'm going to the store or I go to the store" for past tense you start a phrase with a FINISH sign or end with a PAST or mix them up. Anyway SEE 1 would make you sign I- fingerspell AM- GO- fingerspell ING- TO (a made up SEE sign)- THE fingerspelled + STORE. They meant well but they screwed an entire generation of mainstreamed kids like myself. I was lucky enough to love reading to help my English skills. As Deaf camp I had friends who used ASL and friends who signed an in between of Signed English (SE different than SEE 1 you don't do that crap like fingerspelling ING it would me I- GO- STORE, still not ASL but not that weird SEE 1) and ASL called Pidgin.

@Natalie22 When I went to live with my mom outside Denver for high school I finally found another DHH at school the first time ever I experience that, even though she was 2 years older for awhile we were really close. I used a lot of Contact Sign back then which is signing mostly SE or Pidgin while speaking English to help integrate me and her and our hearing friends. It's definitely not professional and you can't use it with ASL because the languages are so different. But its more and more common, since a lot of my fellow older millennials and even some Gen Xers were the first big generation to mainstream. There was a huge surge after until the charter day schools went up. I hate charter schools as a former teacher but I do see how in a very controlled and limited use (one school) it can really work well. The entire school has glass doors, circle tables, everyone can see each other, and communicate and it makes me so happy and sad when I go in there and see those amazing DHH kiddos. I missed it but I can definitely advocate for the future of successful programs like Rocky Mountain Deaf School. I volunteered there for a little bit and it was so great to see kids using ASL for all their subjects like social studies, math, etc. and then learning English as a second language and by high school reading Shakespeare while also expanding their ASL language knowledge with poetry and plays and just some beautiful grasp of the language. The further you expand on your native language or L1, ASL for these DHH kids, verbal Spanish for many hearing children I used to teach, both groups are taught English as a second language or L2. If you expand on the L1, like instead of only speaking Spanish at home with family, have ELA kids continue to expand their Spanish, reading books, writing eventually, etc. It has a massively positive effect on L1 development. I like to point that out to people using ASL because when you use Spanish speaking children people start tossing their racist ass around.

Anyway with my expansion of my ASL skills I'm finally so close to being completely fluent in. I feel like all DHH kids should be exposed to ASL and for many who also need speech and other things like that, that's fine, even if there's a CI, teaching DHH children ASL is teaching them some of their heritage and culture. They'll always love their family and that culture, provided they don't have shitty parents who couldn't handle a DHH kid or have other issues. But still having the option to be able to participate in a rich and vibrant culture of people who understand you. It's so much easier and more complete to start with that ASL language teaching at as young of an age as possible. For those who haven't been exposed to any sign at all it can be even more difficult. I complain about my SE/PSE background mostly because i think it's ridiculous hearing people made up these manual sign systems they put all that effort into teaching me those worthless things when I could have just learned ASL. It was the early to mid 90s in the rural Rocky Mountains so they were really trying back then, they just hadn't grasped the role of linguistic development in the young. I'm super excited to see all the bilingual bicultural schools. 

Being exposed to all this made up nonsense my whole life, I was fortunate I was able to go to Deaf camp and for once learn about the Deaf community and decided I wanted to be a part of it and would start going to their Deaf Nights Out as soon as I  finished high school. I took a lot of ASL courses which made the hearing people think I was cheating because they didn't' understand how many bad SE/PSE habits I had and how very few ASL professors at the high level, almost all who are native ASL signers, don't quite get how what I have to learn is so different than the rest of the class. I think I was able to start developing higher level skills when I went back to undergrad then now am in grad school, my interpreters are using only ASL now unlike when I was younger, my own ASL skill at high level research methodology kind of putz out sometimes and I resort back to SE. Sorry if this is a huge info dump, I've just never really come across so many people with great connections and experiences with ASL and the Deaf community.

We should make a little group of ASL Convos. We can video chat I can teach some basic ASL for people whatever the level and we can do conversations together even if they're basic. Obviously we can also write posts. LMK if you're all interested @feministxtian too. I'm giving you an even bigger hug than I planned on for you being so sweet with that little boy. Just a tiny gesture can mean sooooo much when you're use to having to struggle to try to understand. If anyone read all this that is. I know I'm known for writing too damn much but I figured I'd up the level for the holidays. Actually it's just my former Deaf ed teacher coming out. If anyone is interested in learning a little or just being exposed to ASL, DailyMoth.com is a Deaf news site that has a daily video in ASL about the day's news. You can put captions on and slow down the speed as much as you'd like if you're looking to see ASL structure and grammar instead of looking up individual signs for vocab words and putting them together in English.  COVID has put a putz on the Deaf community events, so it'd be even better to have a FJ ASL Learning and Interest Group 🙂 

 

 

I LOVE this post, it's full of so much great information. I'd been interested in ASL since I was a kid, and when my son was a baby/toddler I signed with him (not so much now, at 14, but I've still been known to sign  "stop" to him if he's goofing off at church or somewhere where I can't tell him to behave 😆). When I got divorced when he was 2, and started to go back to school, I was thrilled to find our community college had an AMAZING ASL program- they have a Deaf Support Specialist program, as well as a very intensive interpreting program- you have to past your certification exam as a graduation requirement. I loved the first half of the program- the language courses, Deaf Culture classes, stuff like that. but after I got to the actual interpreting part of the program, I just couldn't do it. I'm not sure why, but as much as I wanted to, I couldn't make it work, and like you said, that is something that is so very important, I wasn't going to do it half way.

 

Unfortunately, like any language, I've lost a lot of it, because I don't use it very much anymore, and that sucks.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Wow, same here, and I hadn’t realized Mac was at that age already!

The root of many of my mental health struggles stem from that time- parents divorce, mom dove head first into alcohol addiction and I became caretaker, narcissistic father, and on top of all that….PUBERTY!!! 🙃

I was the youngest, and only child at home. I can’t imagine how she must be carrying her own emotional trauma, as well as that of all her younger siblings. 

And we know whatever they're telling her it's not the truth and she's probably reconciling being gas lit with the stuff she overhears, talk about cognitive dissonance.

Not to mention they're all taught God will protect them if they follow the rules and pray hard enough.  They are losing their dad through no fault of their own and they've got to be wondering how their God can let that happen.  We don't know her, some deal with stress by doubling down with the cult and others begin to quietly question.  But even if she doesn't question now this sets it up to happen down the road;  this is going to plague all of them for the rest of their lives.

I'm sad these kids are being educationally neglected but right now I'm glad they aren't having to face public school classmates right now.  Tweens are when kids are the most vicious, IME.

[zee_four]

22 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Speaking of Manischewitz,  I had a fundy (Pentecostal) roommate one semester who felt it was wrong to drink, but she would occasionally allow herself a glass of Manischewitz because it was, “the wine that Jesus drank.”

As for its kosherness, during my first marriage we had Lubavitcher friends who did not consider Manischewitz kosher enough.  The man explained very carefully that not all rabbis who pronounced things were equally qualified.  This was the first time my husband (raised Jewish but not traditional) heard that not everything labeled kosher is considered kosher by all Jews.  (Ah, fundies!)

 

Hahaha I love that. I was in a Jewish sorority in college, it was a small local one considered a multicultural sorority not a panhellenic one. Anyway we did every Shabbat at the local Chabad (the minority of girls went to Hillel) and I used to nanny for the Chandler rabbi and his wife. The younger girls and guys would stuff bottles of Manischewitz in their purses and bags and most of the kids who were shom shab (shomer shabbat) or they followed the Jewish laws of shabbat to some extent mostly no driving, electricity, writing or studying but they drank from Friday night to Saturday night and went to day services for lunch at Chabad Saturday. Don't worry they mostly drank vodka not just Manischewitz. Killer hangovers every Sunday for sure.

On 12/23/2021 at 2:37 PM, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I smiled at "milk flavored water".  Hope that doesn't mean I'm some kind of sadist.

Honestly its probably like the "cheese flavored product" you're served in jail. Milk and cheese have USDA/FDA guidelines for definitions, you can't call something milk unless it has x milk proteins per ounce or something, I dont know the specifics. But the real cheap stuff that prisoners, many public schools and other institutions eat, are the bottom of the barrel cheap crap. That would be my guess.

[zee_four]

On 12/22/2021 at 6:11 PM, Cam said:

Josh was too busy giving in to his depraved carnal desires to think about what could happen if he got caught. He wasn’t thinking about his children or about being there for the many milestones his children would experience. He knew what he was doing was against the law. The idea of prison is supposed to be a deterrent. But he chose not to weigh the pros and cons (no pun intended) of possibly getting caught doing what he was doing. Or he erroneously thought if he got caught, more Jesus camp or something. Prison probably never crossed his mind. But it shoulda.

Someone very close to me experimented with a few mild recreational drugs in his late teens/early 20s. He said he never tried cocaine because he was afraid he’d like it too much and he worried he’d get addicted. Some people have those stop-gap measures, the instincts to know not to push the envelope, the ability to know what’s not a good idea. Or, as we call it, “right from wrong”. 

While I agree with your sentiment as it applies to CSA, when I read what you wrote it comes across as though you're implying people who use and who get addicted to drugs are in the same boat as pedophiles who engage in CSA whether by viewing CSAM or engaging in sexual assault and rape themselves are both missing the same stop gap of knowing "right from wrong". I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, if you didn't mean this, just know the way you phrased it came across that way. Just a heads up.

And as an obligatory shout out for anyone reading who may believe the above, substance use disorder/substance abuse and addiction is NOT a moral failure in any way shape or form. End Stop (and even if people think it is, which it is NOT, there's NO comparison) There's such a horrific stigma that individuals struggling with SUD are moral failures and bad people, that has done nothing but destroy even more lives than SUD and addiction do, because it prevents people from getting proper treatment, or for proper treatment to even be available. We don't tell people with diabetes that they're morally deficient and should just turn to God, shame themselves in public groups and sack up to change their disease and we need to stop doing the same with substance use disorder and all other mental health conditions like depression and anxiety. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I’m not at all surprised that someone who used the same password (with his birth year, no less) for banking and CSAM sites didn’t realize that he needed to take out the digital trash.

[EmCatlyn]

10 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

You are most likely to find kosher cokes around Passover and sometimes in the ‘kosher’ isle. Look for a KP or UP symbol 

Coca Cola is always Kosher (for most Conservative and many Orthodox Jews).  That means that some rabbi or group of rabbis have certified that it doesn’t have any traif (non-Kosher) ingredients and that it is not prepared in a facility or by any method that would contaminate it.

Interestingly, the Coca Cola company chooses not to use the Kosher symbol on their products most of the time.  The exception is when marking Kosher for Passover.  As noted, Coca Cola is not Kosher for Passover because of the corn syrup.  So every year around Passover, the Coca Cola Company in the US markets a bunch of Cokes that are Kosher for Passover.  This past year, you could see the Kosher for Passover bottles because they had yellow tops. (My husband is a big Coca Cola drinker and looked up why the yellow tops.)

This brings me back to the question of why the jail Josh is in is so preoccupied with their “Kosher drinks.”  🤷‍♀️

[zee_four]

54 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Coca Cola is always Kosher (for most Conservative and many Orthodox Jews).  That means that some rabbi or group of rabbis have certified that it doesn’t have any traif (non-Kosher) ingredients and that it is not prepared in a facility or by any method that would contaminate it.

Interestingly, the Coca Cola company chooses not to use the Kosher symbol on their products most of the time.  The exception is when marking Kosher for Passover.  As noted, Coca Cola is not Kosher for Passover because of the corn syrup.  So every year around Passover, the Coca Cola Company in the US markets a bunch of Cokes that are Kosher for Passover.  This past year, you could see the Kosher for Passover bottles because they had yellow tops. (My husband is a big Coca Cola drinker and looked up why the yellow tops.)

This brings me back to the question of why the jail Josh is in is so preoccupied with their “Kosher drinks.”  🤷‍♀️

Probably a lawsuit for not providing Kosher food would be my guess. It takes a lot for a prisoner's lawsuit against lifestyle conditions, outside grievous bodily injury or death (and even then....), to be ruled in the prisoner's favor. I can see a county jail, especially in the South, refusing to acquiesce to a prisoners non Christian religious dietary restrictions and then finally, having a lawsuit that was successful against this MO. Thus the, see people reading this (lawyers and FJers) we love Kosher food here, Kosher food for all the prisoners!!!!

[Shrubbery]

On a scale of one to Melania Trump‘s Christmas decorations, how un-festive and miserable a Christmas is Smuggar going to have behind bars, with the knowledge that it’s only the first of probably (hopefully) many?

I actually feel kind of sorry for other prisoners (not all of them tho) who do not get to spend a family holiday that they celebrate (in this case Christmas) with family, but in this case I hope he gets a five-minute phone call with a disengaged Anna, a hastily scribbled card from his parents with his name misspelled, and 23 hours by himself with a vaguely turkey-flavoured unidentifiable meat stew.

Happy Christmas though to all of you who celebrate it today! 

[lizzybee]

Don't forget that JB is the same dad fasting with his other boys to repress their sexual urges before they married. I don't think the same guy whose encouraging his boys not to eat so they won't be so horny would be the guy offering Josh some porn. I think they married him off as quickly as they could hoping that when he could have as much sex as he wanted that would fix the problem. It skeeves me out for Anna's sake that in many ways she was very much a sexual object in a headship exchange. That deserves therapy even if nothing else had happened. 

[smittykins]

18 hours ago, Giraffe said:

It's such a bad idea not to teach kids the proper names of body parts. 

IIRC, in the police report that was filed after Oprah was tipped off and alerted the authorities, one of Josh’s victims referred to her “pee-pee holder.”

[Four is Enough]

15 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Someone mentioned upthread about prisons designing meals to provide as little nutritional value allowed.

Forget about flavor, but this is a really bad idea on a lot of levels.  Diets with poor nutritional value not only effect long term health, but can also cause health problems in the moment like gi issues, headaches, etc.  A healthy diet can help us manage stress and not compound whatever issues one has with spikes and crashes, etc.

And the ones who supplement their diet? Commissary junk food. Sugar and fat.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 hours ago, zee_four said:

Probably a lawsuit for not providing Kosher food would be my guess. It takes a lot for a prisoner's lawsuit against lifestyle conditions, outside grievous bodily injury or death (and even then....), to be ruled in the prisoner's favor. I can see a county jail, especially in the South, refusing to acquiesce to a prisoners non Christian religious dietary restrictions and then finally, having a lawsuit that was successful against this MO. Thus the, see people reading this (lawyers and FJers) we love Kosher food here, Kosher food for all the prisoners!!!!

If someone could sue for not being allowed to keep kosher just having kosher beverages means nothing as the rest of the meal isn't kosher.

I'm still curious as to why they're calling out the beverages only as being kosher.

[Beermeet]

28 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If someone could sue for not being allowed to keep kosher just having kosher beverages means nothing as the rest of the meal isn't kosher.

I'm still curious as to why they're calling out the beverages only as being kosher.

Maybe because they can?  Like when you see a package of whatever food that advertising 'gluten free' but the grapes or chips never had gluten to begin with.  

[FleeJanaFree]

12 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I’m not at all surprised that someone who used the same password (with his birth year, no less) for banking and CSAM sites didn’t realize that he needed to take out the digital trash.

I can understand using the same passwords for some things because EVERY app and website and subscription requires a password and it’s annoying to keep track. But just the fact that he’s supposed to be ‘internet savvy’, uses the same password in his business that his employees use as his personal life, AND has such an incredibly EASY password (birth year?!? where’s the random uppercase number and special symbol?!), I just...can’t. God cannot fix this kind of stupid. 

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

11 hours ago, zee_four said:

Probably a lawsuit for not providing Kosher food would be my guess. It takes a lot for a prisoner's lawsuit against lifestyle conditions, outside grievous bodily injury or death (and even then....), to be ruled in the prisoner's favor. I can see a county jail, especially in the South, refusing to acquiesce to a prisoners non Christian religious dietary restrictions and then finally, having a lawsuit that was successful against this MO. Thus the, see people reading this (lawyers and FJers) we love Kosher food here, Kosher food for all the prisoners!!!!

County jails are not usually the ones providing the kosher meals. It’s often a religious organization that organizes those meals for members of the religion.

[EmCatlyn]

12 hours ago, zee_four said:

Probably a lawsuit for not providing Kosher food would be my guess. It takes a lot for a prisoner's lawsuit against lifestyle conditions, outside grievous bodily injury or death (and even then....), to be ruled in the prisoner's favor. I can see a county jail, especially in the South, refusing to acquiesce to a prisoners non Christian religious dietary restrictions and then finally, having a lawsuit that was successful against this MO. Thus the, see people reading this (lawyers and FJers) we love Kosher food here, Kosher food for all the prisoners!!!!

Yeah, but there is no mention of kosher food,  just kosher drinks.  That is almost like “cholesterol free fruit” (in some grocery stores).  

3 hours ago, smittykins said:

IIRC, in the police report that was filed after Oprah was tipped off and alerted the authorities, one of Josh’s victims referred to her “pee-pee holder.”

I think it wasn’t one of the victims but one of the younger boys.  The girls referred to the vulva as “privates” I think.

 

[AuntCloud]

I take it as “there’s so little actual milk in this so-called beverage, it can’t even be considered dairy” (and there for you can have it with meat).

Dairy in and of itself is kosher, as long as it’s consumed with an appropriate degree of separation from meat - 4 or 6 hours, depending. 

[onekidanddone]

15 minutes ago, AuntCloud said:

I take it as “there’s so little actual milk in this so-called beverage, it can’t even be considered dairy” (and there for you can have it with meat).

Dairy in and of itself is kosher, as long as it’s consumed with an appropriate degree of separation from meat - 4 or 6 hours, depending. 

When I was a kid it was seven hours between meat and dairy and three hours between dairy.  
 

 

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If someone could sue for not being allowed to keep kosher just having kosher beverages means nothing as the rest of the meal isn't kosher.

I'm still curious as to why they're calling out the beverages only as being kosher.

I keep wondering if it's a legal loophole so that prisoners who keep kosher can be offered liquid calories if they won't eat the food.

[Beermeet]

My ex properly Jewish boss told me when I asked about the no pork,  that he wasn't quite sure exactly why.  He thought it was probably a really important health measure. Due to the cooking properly issue.  He was like, "we're smart, people were getting sick so Rabbi made a law" lol

We discussed the cloven foot and the general 'pigs are dirty" but we got into the real why and I agree. It would make practical sense. 

Idk if I'm making sense but I remembered that conversation.  My ex boss was fun to talk to. A cradle Catholic ( religious at the time)  and an a  religious Jewish man discussing and asking each other questions; with humor and respect ( remember that?).  30 year age difference.  His wife was equally awesome too.  She taught the whole office to crochet!  Good times, great man/family!  His son's name was Adam and for a few years he dated a woman named Eve!  Poor kids, their families and pretty much everyone thought they should marry due to that.  Poor kids, of course they didn't. Too much meddling. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Beermeet

[thoughtful]

48 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

When I was a kid it was seven hours between meat and dairy and three hours between dairy.  
 

 

And my mom and grandmother didn't bother with a time difference at all - just didn't serve  or eat meat and dairy at the same meal.

But they are/were from the "this is symbolic" school of religion.

[onekidanddone]

12 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

And my mom and grandmother didn't bother with a time difference at all - just didn't serve  or eat meat and dairy at the same meal.

But they are/were from the "this is symbolic" school of religion.

My parents started to slack off the strict rules till we were eating unkosher food in restaurants and any leftovers brought home had to be eaten with disposable fork.

 

 

 

 

[Cheetah]

10 hours ago, Shrubbery said:

I actually feel kind of sorry for other prisoners (not all of them tho) who do not get to spend a family holiday that they celebrate (in this case Christmas) with family, but in this case I hope he gets a five-minute phone call with a disengaged Anna, a hastily scribbled card from his parents with his name misspelled, and 23 hours by himself with a vaguely turkey-flavoured unidentifiable meat stew.

I hope Anna is properly engaged for her children's Christmas but I fear that she only perks up during her phone calls with Josh and barely keeps it together otherwise.  I hope I'm wrong.