(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 48: "Happy New Year to You [,Josh]... In Jail!"

[Father Son Holy Goat]

5 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Josh is probably in some sort of living hell right now. 

 

5 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

He's completely blown up his life.    

Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy.

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Do they get to request anything?  That's f'ed up if true.  This isn't college, if he wanted a voice in where he lived he could have made different life choices.

4 hours ago, Alisamer said:

So, let's say he gets 10 years. He and Anna will be 43, right? Jim Bob will be 66. Madyson will be 10. All his siblings, even Josie, will be adults, as will his oldest kids. He'll have missed several family weddings, and have quite a few nieces and nephews he's never met. 

If he gets 20? He and Anna will be 53. Jim Bob will be 76. Madyson will be 20. All the nieces and nephews he's actually met will be adults, as will all his own kids. He'll have missed most or all of his OWN kids weddings, along with a large number of family weddings. Winter will no longer exist, parts of the planet will be either flooded or becoming desert hellscapes... 

Ok, maybe not that last bit. He might need to get 30+ years for that.

But yeah I think the more time he gets, the better. Even 12 years would be better than 8. Eight years and Madyson's still a child. 12 years and she's a pre-teen.

If I was the judge, I'd look at Madyson's age at the time he's likely to be released, and make sure she's older than any of the children in the CSA materials he was caught with. That seems to be both sensible and safer, to me.

I’m hoping for the max and no being around kids.

3 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Lots of these guys have kids, so I don't think he will because of that, but maybe the molestations can be part of his consideration?

 

Given that the molestation of the original victims was allowed into evidence I don't see why the judge wouldn’t take it into account.

I dearly hope all his victims are allowed to make a victim impact statement, if they chose. 

[EmCatlyn]

26 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I'm hoping [Anna] and the kids are welcomed for long visits in Texas and possibly Florida.  I could see Pecan's church potentially wanting to chip in for a place to stay and other resources for them, with JB picking up the slack.  If things went well, Anna might realize that both she and the kids are able to build their lives without Josh and are actually happier than before.  She would then be in a better position to decide what to do when he gets out.

I may be missing something, but why would Pecan’s church want to help support Anna?   Yes, she is their pastor’s sister in law, so what?

Along the same lines, why would any of her ATI relatives welcome her for long visits away from her substitute headship (JB)?  As I understand it, they look at what has happened to Anna as just what God wants, a sort of test that proves his love, etc.

I could see her being invited for a short visit same as always, but no one in the cult really has any motivation to help Anna get out of her marriage.

Until JB refuses to support her and the M kids, no one is going to step in to help or “rescue” her.  Truly, the best thing that could happen to Anna and the kids now would be for JB to kick them out — which isn’t going to happen. No one is going to step in to rescue her so long as JB is in charge of her.

20 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I dearly hope all his victims are allowed to make a victim impact statement, if they chose. 

The only victims that could make “impact statements” would be the kids in the CSAM even though his prior CSA may be taken into account at sentencing.

[SweetLaurel]

2 hours ago, imokit said:

Even if Josh only does 8 years, there's a good chance he'll miss Mack's future wedding and the birth of his first grandchild (and possibly other grandchildren).

That made me sad.  Can we dream that he misses Mack's graduation from college and the birth of her new career instead?  I hate these girls are so singularly tracked with no options.  

 

[Freejin]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

No way to know.  They could fanwank it that he did it out of remorse and to make sure he couldn't hurt anyone again.  That would let those who needed it a hero narrative.  

What I wish is for all of the survivors, his children, and frankly all of his siblings to get the therapy they need to process what's happened and whatever happens going forward.  I know that's no panacea, but their emotional and mental health shouldn't be tied to his actions anymore.  I know that's easier said than done with kids, and may well not be possible entirely, but they need to give them tools to handle all of this in the healthiest way possible.

I also know that for most of them this is nothing but a pipe dream.  

Has there ever been a case where children on a reality show sued their parents for using their images without their consent?

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Psychopath may be dubious due to the differing definitions and that it's now Anti-Social Personality Disorder, but of course we know he lacks empathy by his actions.

We also know he's a pedophile by his actions.  His CSAM crimes weren't of opportunity, he sought that.  Ditto being a sadist.  He got off sexually on the torture of innocent children, that is sadistic by definition.

I don't need to know what makes him tick to know what he is.

People don't need to know my motivations for choosing a career in IT to know I'm in IT.  My behavior in having a career in the field is enough.  

We do need to know (or guess) “what makes him tick” if we want to speculate about whether he can learn from his experiences and whether he has a chance of healing/becoming less bad.  My point is that though we throw labels around, we don’t know.   (It’s not just that psychopath and sociopath — which have been thrown around— are outdated terms.  It’s that even if we go with “Anti-social personality disorder” we don’t know if that is the correct diagnosis.)

Personally, I don’t think it matters since he is not likely to get real help in prison, but if there were a chance of real help, then “what makes him tick” would matter.

For our purposes, “monster” is just fine.

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Re: Josh bringing his family down with him —

His parents deserve it, and maybe he is doing his siblings a favor by making them take responsibility for their own lives when the parents can no longer finance/support everything.

The ones I truly pity are the M-kids.  I hope Anna will realize that they need her to be stable and reliable and that her choices from now on should put them first—but I fear she won’t.

I agree that his parents completely and totally deserve it.  J'chelle is not a Mother of the Year by a long shot and JB has shown himself to be a complete a** of a father in his behavior towards his oldest and presumably "favorite daughter".

That this may be good for the siblings...that seems to be happening already to some degree but with the ones at home, this may be a warning to not rely on dear old Dad.  I suspect that some of the turmoil is not so much about Josh but about what the rest of the kids see and how they will deal with the full knowledge that their parents failed them.   

The M'kids have the worst deal IMHO.  They are still young and probably are confused by what is going on with their dad.   Now that Joshley's fate is known, meaning he will do some time in prison for a good amount of time gives Anna a chance to evaluate things and hopefully she focuses on her kids and frankly, leaves Josh to well, rot in jail. 

[Freejin]

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet but have people heard about the documentary about the Duggars that is being produced by the LuLaRich producers?? I don’t know if I can wait for this to come out. 

I also just had the random thought of just how SURREAL it must be for a Duggar child to come to this board and realize how many people are talking about them. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

6 minutes ago, Freejin said:

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet but have people heard about the documentary about the Duggars that is being produced by the LuLaRich producers?? I don’t know if I can wait for this to come out. 

I also just had the random thought of just how SURREAL it must be for a Duggar child to come to this board and realize how many people are talking about them. 

I hope they also see that we are cheering for them to leave and have a happy life.

[Freejin]

7 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I hope they also see that we are cheering for them to leave and have a happy life.

For sure. I just can’t imagine what it must be like to have so many strangers speculate and comment on the inner workings of your psyche. 

Especially given that they didn’t choose fame. It was chosen for them. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Freejin
Typo

[patsymae]

8 minutes ago, Freejin said:

For sure. I just can’t imagine what it must be like to have so many strangers speculate and comment on the inner workings of your psyche. 

Especially given that they didn’t choose fame. It was chosen for them. 

Not to mention discussions like one that went on about Jenny's boobs. Or Josie's supposed challenges. 

[Freejin]

2 minutes ago, patsymae said:

Not to mention discussions like one that went on about Jenny's boobs. Or Josie's supposed challenges. 

Oh my gosh. I didn’t know about those. 

1 minute ago, Freejin said:

Oh my gosh. I didn’t know about those. 

And what’s even more surreal is that it’s not even surreal to them since it’s their only reality. 

[patsymae]

1 minute ago, Freejin said:

Oh my gosh. I didn’t know about those. 

I'm here dishing along with everybody else so don't have a high horse to sit on, but the Jenny's boob thing squeeged me out.

[EmCatlyn]

55 minutes ago, Freejin said:

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet but have people heard about the documentary about the Duggars that is being produced by the LuLaRich producers?? I don’t know if I can wait for this to come out. 

I also just had the random thought of just how SURREAL it must be for a Duggar child to come to this board and realize how many people are talking about them. 

I kind of hope they don’t come to this board.  Maybe they are used to people talking about them, but it must be disturbing, especially since we address their lives from perspectives that are totally unfamiliar to them.

[ifosterkittens]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Re: What family stuff Josh will miss out on while he is in prison—

I doubt he cares about missing family weddings and births.  He may regret not being around for some of his kids’ milestones,  but beyond his own kids he probably doesn’t have that much interest.

I agree he probably doesn't care about missing the actual milestones. What I do think he cares about is not having a choice in the matter. 

What will be interesting to me is once he is released from prison and when he is allowed to be around other children under 18 will his siblings allow him near their children? I can see Derick saying Anna and her children are welcome in his house, but Josh is never allowed in his home, and if Josh will be at a family event his family will not be attending (presuming the Dillards were invited). Other siblings may not completely avoid Josh, but may set up rules ahead of time, and say to their kids no one is allowed to be in the same room as Uncle Josh unless a parent is in that room. 

I can see JB saying yes Josh sinned, but they are all sinners, and throw some bible verses saying they need to welcome Josh back into their lives. The Duggar kids not dependent on JB will have more flexibility in deciding how they want to handle being around Josh. 

[EmCatlyn]

27 minutes ago, ifosterkittens said: 

I can see JB saying yes Josh sinned, but they are all sinners, and throw some bible verses saying they need to welcome Josh back into their lives. The Duggar kids not dependent on JB will have more flexibility in deciding how they want to handle being around Josh. 

Let’s hope that 8-10 years from now none who are married with children are dependent on JB. Jana and a few of the younger ones may still be at home in 10 years, but the ones who marry should not still be looking to JB for support.

[patsymae]

1 hour ago, ifosterkittens said:

I agree he probably doesn't care about missing the actual milestones. What I do think he cares about is not having a choice in the matter. 

What will be interesting to me is once he is released from prison and when he is allowed to be around other children under 18 will his siblings allow him near their children? I can see Derick saying Anna and her children are welcome in his house, but Josh is never allowed in his home, and if Josh will be at a family event his family will not be attending (presuming the Dillards were invited). Other siblings may not completely avoid Josh, but may set up rules ahead of time, and say to their kids no one is allowed to be in the same room as Uncle Josh unless a parent is in that room. 

I can see JB saying yes Josh sinned, but they are all sinners, and throw some bible verses saying they need to welcome Josh back into their lives. The Duggar kids not dependent on JB will have more flexibility in deciding how they want to handle being around Josh. 

Well, JD allowed his child to be in an effing parade with Jboob and Jchelle, when the writing on the wall was pretty clear, so he doesn't seem to have a problem. And Blessa wouldn't want to be rude. And whichever idiot it was who gave the thumbs up sign doesn't seem to have a problem either. The Ms will be under the tutelege of Anna, the Duggar parents and the Kellers who toe the line, so who knows what they will be thinking.
Legal eagles chime in here--if he completes his sentence, is it then just a clean slate, that he has the same rights as everyone else since he has paid his debt to society? If they let him out early, for good behavior or whatever, can they impose restrictions until his original sentence has run out?

EDITED because I looked up the Rahway State Prison (has new name now) sex offender program and found something completely different than what I was looking for--many sex offenders are remanded for "treatment" AFTER they serve their sentences because the courts or psychiatrists or whoever consider them a danger to society--a bunch of class action suits going on as they claim they are just  being warehoused in inhumane and unconstitutional conditions. Apparently this is policy in 20 states as well as the federal system. So it looks like (and lawyers correct me if I'm wrong), he could complete his sentence and THEN be sent for "treatment" and only gets to get out at someone's discretion.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2020/aug/1/commitment-new-jerseys-special-treatment-unit-potential-death-sentence/

Edited December 23, 2021 by patsymae

[Cults-r-us]

5 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

I hope that he is getting mental health support. Both so that he can heal from whatever trauma has caused him to want to view children being tortured and because his siblings, children, wife etc do not need to have to cope with a suicide. 
Maybe because I work as a therapist (newly minted, just graduated with my Masters this past spring) and maybe because I’m overly optimistic, I believe that with the right motivation, support, resources and perhaps meds, all people can change and become productive citizens. I am repulsed by what he did but I don’t know Josh at all so I don’t know what lead to it. I’m not sure I’m making sense so I’ll shut up 😂

I think the #1 indicator that a person can change is motivation to be different. CSA has (rightfully) a horrible stigma that causes additional obstacles in seeking treatment. Rufus, I hope Josh finally internalizes the problems his behavior has cost him and everybody else and wants to change

[patsymae]

1 minute ago, EmCatlyn said:

Let’s hope that 8-10 years from now none who are married with children are dependent on JB. Jana and a few of the younger ones may still be at home in 10 years, but the ones who marry should not still be looking to JB for support.

By then JB may not be able to offer all those carrots anyway. The TLC gravy train is gone, the brand is trash except for his leghumpers, and I suspect most of them don't have more to offer than leaving a pile of old clothes in the church parking lot. His couple hundred voters who live in the area probably aren't enough to support one much less more used car/towing businesses. His supply of slave labor is drying up--JD has his own thing, I think, the one in Texas is not coming back to clean out wrecked houses, I doubt Joy and Austin will be helping to flip houses for Jboob, I don't see Ben picking up a hammer anytime soon. So that income stream will likely diminish.
And if there is any justice in this world this last situation has finally opened the floodgates and his scams will come under scrutiny and the IRS among others will take a closer look. Even his IBLP pals are rushing to distance themselves--the Holtses opened that door--and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they start quietly becoming informants.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bateses senior aren't relishing this and in my dreams at least are feeding whatever they know to the authorities. I never bought the "best friend" thing, and when they helped build the Bates's new house JB kept rubbing Gil's nose in it. I feel like they've just been waiting for the tables to turn.
OK this went in a different direction. But overall I don't think JB will have the moola to be much of an enforcer in the long run.

[Cam]

Josh was too busy giving in to his depraved carnal desires to think about what could happen if he got caught. He wasn’t thinking about his children or about being there for the many milestones his children would experience. He knew what he was doing was against the law. The idea of prison is supposed to be a deterrent. But he chose not to weigh the pros and cons (no pun intended) of possibly getting caught doing what he was doing. Or he erroneously thought if he got caught, more Jesus camp or something. Prison probably never crossed his mind. But it shoulda.

Someone very close to me experimented with a few mild recreational drugs in his late teens/early 20s. He said he never tried cocaine because he was afraid he’d like it too much and he worried he’d get addicted. Some people have those stop-gap measures, the instincts to know not to push the envelope, the ability to know what’s not a good idea. Or, as we call it, “right from wrong”. 

[nicki12811]

I've fallen behind and I'm sorry if this has come up before, but at what point do we separate the "Josh" threads from the "Anna+7" threads? Post-sentencing? 

[Mlissmartin]

24 minutes ago, nicki12811 said:

I've fallen behind and I'm sorry if this has come up before, but at what point do we separate the "Josh" threads from the "Anna+7" threads? Post-sentencing? 

When she announces her divorce? 🙏🙏

[EmCatlyn]

20 minutes ago, nicki12811 said:

I've fallen behind and I'm sorry if this has come up before, but at what point do we separate the "Josh" threads from the "Anna+7" threads? Post-sentencing? 

Why will we need separate threads?  We won’t hear enough about Josh to merit a separate thread, will we?  (Just wondering.)

Maybe renaming the thread “Anna +7” would be all that is needed. (Erase the creep’s name for a while.)  

I do think a good subtitle might be “Anna the Prison Widow.”

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

33 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I do think a good subtitle might be “Anna the Prison Widow.”

That is brilliant!

[zee_four]

LONG KIND OF OFF TOPIC BY NOW RESPONSE TO COMMENTS IN THE PREVIOUS THREAD- Just a heads up

Unfortunately I wasn't able to respond to any of the amazing replies I had on my post about ASL on the last thread, but I'll try my best to attempt to do justice when responding to some really amazing and wonderful posts about  so many FJers experiences with different languages and especially ASL/the Deaf community.

First off to our Glorious Leader 🙂 @HerNameIsBuffy The instance I specifically mentioned happened in Texas but I can't find the article for the life of me but that that was the lady who claimed to be a church interpreter and converting Dead/HoH instead of giving them life saving emergency info was her doing the Lawd's work or something) in September. But don't worry, there's a lot more where that came from. Here's one of the bigger recent stories, A woman from Tampa, Florida lied about being a certified ASL interpreter, she actually had literally no ASL knowledge, but they hired her and they had her interpret a major police press conference about a serial killer and moved her hands and literally waved her arms around. https://abc13.com/fake-sign-language-signs-interpreter-derlyn-roberts/2743729/
There's a bunch more links of ridiculous and dangerous times random people walked up and were allowed by county, state and national officials to be the ASL interpreter, literally putting the lives of DHH community members into Joe Blow's hands where his signs are just spirit fingers. :face palm:

Spoiler

Another Floridian in Manatee knew a couple signs.... for BEER and PIZZA apparently... but that really wasn't what the Deaf community needed because he was supposed to be interpreting evacuation orders from Hurricane Irma. His only actual employment qualifications were as a lifeguard and that was iffy.  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/sign-language-interpreter-irma.html

Ah you can never forget the mentally ill man who somehow was picked to interpret a historic moment when Obama visited the Nelson Mandela memorial. You know something last minute and super low key. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-sign-language-interpreter-nelson-mandela-memorial-provokes-anger-flna2d11723934

Honestly there's too many to post, but it's bad. Here is a video from a Deaf individual who talks about why it is such a big deal and super dangerous these situations keep happening. https://youtu.be/hPDQPZ5Xq6k And this great CODA/SODA (child/sibling of Deaf adult) and Deaf community advocate wrote an article on it if that's more  style https://www.signlanguagenyc.com/emergency-management-systems-neglect-deaf-citizens/

@Caroline That's so great that you and your sister both understand that. I wish I was 10-15 years older so I could have been able to attend some of the new day schools for DHH in cities that use a bi-bi (bilingual./bicultural) methodology. Hearing babies learn their native language by well hearing it spoken from their earliest moments. Deaf and severely-profoundly Hard of Hearing babies can pick up a native language in the same exact way with the same fluency later in life, but it has to be an actual sign language and if you're in the US or English speaking Canada that would be ASL. So if a DHH baby is exposed to ASL like a hearing baby is exposed to verbal English, they'll follow similar language accusation patterns. Since 95% of DHH babies are born to hearing parents this becomes a big problem though. A lot of states now have Child Find or Healthy Child programs for disabled children where advocated go to the home and work with not just the baby but really they focus on the entire family depending on the "disability". For DHH babies those will be people with extensive knowledge of Deaf education and Deaf culture,  usually people like interpreters for young children and Deaf ed teachers, but also DHH adults, they're all fluent in ASL  for birth to age 3, They can help connect parents with other hearing parents of DHH babies and children, things like that. They try to present options for the family but give them a much broader understanding that Deafness is not really a disability in a lot of ways, it's just a different culture with a different language and dispelling myths that using any manual signs will make it so DHH children won't ever learn English, myths like that

There's no shame in wanting your child to be able to communicate with their hearing family and for the parents to want the best for their child educationally and professionally way down the line. Also unfortunately the first guidance they usually get is medical from hearing doctors who think just give them a cochlear implant and they'll be "normal" and you never have to think about the DHH community again. Okay they don't say that but it's implied. Not all DHH are candidates for CIs. Myself I was born with moderate to severe HL in one ear and severe HL in the other. Over the past 30+ years it has gotten worse and I"m hovering around a severe almost profound HL in one ear and the lowest level of severe in the other. But technology has improved so much unfortunately a lot of states Medicaid won't pay for hearing aids which mine, not top of the line, but middle to upper middle, are $7500 EACH. Luckily Hawai'i is an outlier, I had been waiting  like 4+ years in Colorado for hearing aids through Department of Vocational Rehab, where anyone who isn't loaded goes to get hearing aids. I use a crappy pair my audiologist gave me to tide me over. But anyway back on topic because of this residual hearing, a CI would be a bad idea. 

A CI is a super super invasive surgery where the skull of a young child is cut down to and parts of their ear are removed and replaced with a little mechanical contraption that is then connected into the skull under the scalp. So people later in life who hate they had to grow up with CIs (it happens a lot) are left profoundly Deaf. Anyway so there's' a lot of controversy. Kids with CIs don't hear like hearing people they are not "fixed". Especially people my age who had their CIs down in the late 80s and early 90s have  an extremely limited number of sounds the fake cochlea processes unlike the tens of thousands of hairs on an actual cochlea so everything can sound very mechanical. It'd be great if kids not parents could choose but for them to be the most "successful" they need to be done very young a step in their language development.

Anyway I was mainstreamed in the early 90s in a rural mountain school. We had a board of cooperative educational services (BOCES) that provided specialist teachers for like 5 different gigantic counties in NW Colorado so I saw an actually Deaf ed teacher like once a month maybe? Tops? But the only other option was for my mom to send me, at age 5 to Colorado Springs, hundreds of miles away over the mountains, to a really not great school. The late 80s and early to mid, even late 90s in some places, bilingual education hadn't been created really so there was a model called Total Communication or TC. Basically they used as many different methods to try to communicate with use, including 3 made up manual signing systems that were not natural languages like ASL or English and you couldn't acquire them for linguistic benefit. One was called Seeing Essential English (SEE 2) Signing Exact English (SEE 1) was the other. SEE 2 made you sign BUTTERFLY by mixing the sign for  BUTTER+FLY and ridiculous stuff like that I didn't use it much. SEE 1 was what i started with. For example in ASL you sign STORE then you point to yourself going toward where you just showed the store for "I'm going to the store or I go to the store" for past tense you start a phrase with a FINISH sign or end with a PAST or mix them up. Anyway SEE 1 would make you sign I- fingerspell AM- GO- fingerspell ING- TO (a made up SEE sign)- THE fingerspelled + STORE. They meant well but they screwed an entire generation of mainstreamed kids like myself. I was lucky enough to love reading to help my English skills. As Deaf camp I had friends who used ASL and friends who signed an in between of Signed English (SE different than SEE 1 you don't do that crap like fingerspelling ING it would me I- GO- STORE, still not ASL but not that weird SEE 1) and ASL called Pidgin.

@Natalie22 When I went to live with my mom outside Denver for high school I finally found another DHH at school the first time ever I experience that, even though she was 2 years older for awhile we were really close. I used a lot of Contact Sign back then which is signing mostly SE or Pidgin while speaking English to help integrate me and her and our hearing friends. It's definitely not professional and you can't use it with ASL because the languages are so different. But its more and more common, since a lot of my fellow older millennials and even some Gen Xers were the first big generation to mainstream. There was a huge surge after until the charter day schools went up. I hate charter schools as a former teacher but I do see how in a very controlled and limited use (one school) it can really work well. The entire school has glass doors, circle tables, everyone can see each other, and communicate and it makes me so happy and sad when I go in there and see those amazing DHH kiddos. I missed it but I can definitely advocate for the future of successful programs like Rocky Mountain Deaf School. I volunteered there for a little bit and it was so great to see kids using ASL for all their subjects like social studies, math, etc. and then learning English as a second language and by high school reading Shakespeare while also expanding their ASL language knowledge with poetry and plays and just some beautiful grasp of the language. The further you expand on your native language or L1, ASL for these DHH kids, verbal Spanish for many hearing children I used to teach, both groups are taught English as a second language or L2. If you expand on the L1, like instead of only speaking Spanish at home with family, have ELA kids continue to expand their Spanish, reading books, writing eventually, etc. It has a massively positive effect on L1 development. I like to point that out to people using ASL because when you use Spanish speaking children people start tossing their racist ass around.

Anyway with my expansion of my ASL skills I'm finally so close to being completely fluent in. I feel like all DHH kids should be exposed to ASL and for many who also need speech and other things like that, that's fine, even if there's a CI, teaching DHH children ASL is teaching them some of their heritage and culture. They'll always love their family and that culture, provided they don't have shitty parents who couldn't handle a DHH kid or have other issues. But still having the option to be able to participate in a rich and vibrant culture of people who understand you. It's so much easier and more complete to start with that ASL language teaching at as young of an age as possible. For those who haven't been exposed to any sign at all it can be even more difficult. I complain about my SE/PSE background mostly because i think it's ridiculous hearing people made up these manual sign systems they put all that effort into teaching me those worthless things when I could have just learned ASL. It was the early to mid 90s in the rural Rocky Mountains so they were really trying back then, they just hadn't grasped the role of linguistic development in the young. I'm super excited to see all the bilingual bicultural schools. 

Being exposed to all this made up nonsense my whole life, I was fortunate I was able to go to Deaf camp and for once learn about the Deaf community and decided I wanted to be a part of it and would start going to their Deaf Nights Out as soon as I  finished high school. I took a lot of ASL courses which made the hearing people think I was cheating because they didn't' understand how many bad SE/PSE habits I had and how very few ASL professors at the high level, almost all who are native ASL signers, don't quite get how what I have to learn is so different than the rest of the class. I think I was able to start developing higher level skills when I went back to undergrad then now am in grad school, my interpreters are using only ASL now unlike when I was younger, my own ASL skill at high level research methodology kind of putz out sometimes and I resort back to SE. Sorry if this is a huge info dump, I've just never really come across so many people with great connections and experiences with ASL and the Deaf community.

We should make a little group of ASL Convos. We can video chat I can teach some basic ASL for people whatever the level and we can do conversations together even if they're basic. Obviously we can also write posts. LMK if you're all interested @feministxtian too. I'm giving you an even bigger hug than I planned on for you being so sweet with that little boy. Just a tiny gesture can mean sooooo much when you're use to having to struggle to try to understand. If anyone read all this that is. I know I'm known for writing too damn much but I figured I'd up the level for the holidays. Actually it's just my former Deaf ed teacher coming out. If anyone is interested in learning a little or just being exposed to ASL, DailyMoth.com is a Deaf news site that has a daily video in ASL about the day's news. You can put captions on and slow down the speed as much as you'd like if you're looking to see ASL structure and grammar instead of looking up individual signs for vocab words and putting them together in English.  COVID has put a putz on the Deaf community events, so it'd be even better to have a FJ ASL Learning and Interest Group 🙂 

 

 

[feministxtian]

@zee_four let's talk about the ASL thing. At ACC and the state system ASL fulfills the 2nd language requirement.