(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 48: "Happy New Year to You [,Josh]... In Jail!"

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I smiled at "milk flavored water".  Hope that doesn't mean I'm some kind of sadist.

I am guessing that it is powdered skim milk.  They may or may not be diluting it too much.  Powdered skim milk (unlike fresh or canned skim milk) is kind of watery to start with.

I am less struck by the mention of the “kosher beverage” than by the absence of any mention of anything else being kosher.  I am sure they do offer kosher meals, but why mention that the beverage is kosher if the rest of the meal isn’t?   

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

I thought the emphasis on ‘kosher’ beverage was odd.  The only thing I could think of was Manischewitz. Believe me when I tell you serving that is considered cruel and unusual punishment. 

I’m guessing a non dairy beverage?

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

I thought the emphasis on ‘kosher’ beverage was odd.  The only thing I could think of was Manischewitz. Believe me when I tell you serving that is considered cruel and unusual punishment. 

Speaking of Manischewitz,  I had a fundy (Pentecostal) roommate one semester who felt it was wrong to drink, but she would occasionally allow herself a glass of Manischewitz because it was, “the wine that Jesus drank.”

As for its kosherness, during my first marriage we had Lubavitcher friends who did not consider Manischewitz kosher enough.  The man explained very carefully that not all rabbis who pronounced things were equally qualified.  This was the first time my husband (raised Jewish but not traditional) heard that not everything labeled kosher is considered kosher by all Jews.  (Ah, fundies!)

 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

33 minutes ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

Regarding Josh being strip-searched each time he leaves or returns to the pod, including anal inspection:  You know you have a crappy career trajectory when it's your job to check Josh Duggar's A-hole coming and going.

Poor bloke should get hazard pay.  

 

13 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Speaking of Manischewitz,  I had a fundy (Pentecostal) roommate one semester who felt it was wrong to drink, but she would occasionally allow herself a glass of Manischewitz because it was, “the wine that Jesus drank.”

 

I’m picturing a blonde, white Jesus taking a sip and going, “Aaaaah Manischewitz.”

[Dandruff]

4 hours ago, karenb4729 said:

I smiled at the fact that the other prisoners can talk to him through the closed door.  I can only imagine the things they are saying to him.

Do you think they might be using foul language?  Josh wouldn't like that.

45 minutes ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

Regarding Josh being strip-searched each time he leaves or returns to the pod, including anal inspection:  You know you have a crappy career trajectory when it's your job to check Josh Duggar's A-hole coming and going.

Definitely nowhere to go but(t) up from there.

I wonder how explicitly that particular task is discussed during job interviews.  Including it on one's resume could also be dicey.

 

[SPHASH]

In regards to the Dionne quints, when the McGaughey septuplets were born the surviving quints wrote Mr and Mrs McGaughey a letter warning them of exploiting the kids.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080408114049/http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,987457,00.html

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by SPHASH

[Flossie]

1 hour ago, SPHASH said:

In regards to the Dionne quints, when the McGaughey septuplets were born the surviving quints wrote Mr and Mrs McGaughey a letter warning them of exploiting the kids.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080408114049/http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,987457,00.html

 

I've heard that too.

[onekidanddone]

10 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Really - are there any unkosher beverages, other than Clamato? Well, OK, maybe there are - but they're not exactly common beverages.

If someone doesn't want milk with a meat meal, that's one thing. But the milk itself is not traife (unkosher).

I did look it up, and I guess there are some people who care about things being certified as kosher. I sit corrected.

https://www.kashrut.com/consumer/soda/

As a little kid my mom only bought soda once a year on Passover. Cott brand black cherry and cream flavors. 

When we moved from New England Cott was hard to find so she bought Dr. Brown’s.  I knew people who stocked up on Kosher for Passover Cokes. 

The kosher for Passover had to do with the sweetener. Since corn is a grain and can’t be used for Passover the soda had to be made with cane sugar 

 

 

 

 

 

[Four is Enough]

14 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I smiled at "milk flavored water".  Hope that doesn't mean I'm some kind of sadist.

The guy's description of the food service was spot on. My son who spent time in prison (US Eastern Seaboard) talked about how bland, tasteless, dry, and watered-down the food and drinks were. I'm not saying he should have had gourmet meals, but I would have liked to know he had adequate portions and nutritional value. 

[RosyDaisy]

I have no sympathy for what Josh is/will be going through.  He deserves what he gets (To be clear, I mean his treatment as prescribed by law and regulations).  The only ones I feel sorry for throughout this whole ordeal are his kids and victims of SA/CASM.

Edited December 24, 2021 by RosyDaisy

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

As a little kid my mom only bought soda once a year on Passover. Cott brand black cherry and cream flavors. 

When we moved from New England Cott was hard to find so she bought Dr. Brown’s.  I knew people who stocked up on Kosher for Passover Cokes. 

The kosher for Passover had to do with the sweetener. Since corn is a grain and can’t be used for Passover the soda had to be made with cane sugar 

 

 

 

 

 

Mexican cokes!  That's why we like them, they use cane sugar instead of corn syrup.  Tastes better.   I'll have to look out for kosher cokes now too!

[SassyPants]

17 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I haven’t read that one, but I read The Dionne Years which was pretty fascinating.  The parents did make money off the girls (and in later years three of them claimed they had been abused by their father) but the original exploitation was carried out by the Ontario government.  

Yes, the parents did make money off the girls.

[ADoyle90815]

The only people I feel sorry for are his children and victims of CSA. Josh Duggar is exactly where he needs to be, and I have no sympathy for the repeated strip searches and other things he has to endure while in prison.

Personally, I prefer Mexican Coke because it's made with cane sugar, and in glass bottles which is what I remember growing up with. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by ADoyle90815

[Father Son Holy Goat]

50 minutes ago, ADoyle90815 said:

The only people I feel sorry for are his children and victims of CSA. Josh Duggar is exactly where he needs to be, and I have no sympathy for the repeated strip searches and other things he has to endure while in prison.

 

I have no sympathy for him either. I have much sympathy for all his victims/survivors.

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, Beermeet said:

Mexican cokes!  That's why we like them, they use cane sugar instead of corn syrup.  Tastes better.   I'll have to look out for kosher cokes now too!

You are most likely to find kosher cokes around Passover and sometimes in the ‘kosher’ isle. Look for a KP or UP symbol 

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I have no sympathy for what Josh is/will be going through.  He deserves what he gets (To be clear, I mean his treatment as prescribed by law and regulations).  The only ones I feel sorry for throughout this whole ordeal are his kids and victims of SA/CASM.

I don't pity him but I also don't loathe him so much that I have nothing left for others doing the same.  I view him as both perp and a reminder.  May they all be caught and dealt with, in the best interests of children everywhere.

[Bobology]

In an earlier thread there had been some discussion about how Josh found his first internet porn. Many of us have wondered about JB's motivation to both pay for Josh's defense and have amnesia on the pre-trial stand. Some have said that maybe Josh is privy to some of JB's sketchy financial shenanigans assuming there are any, which I believe there are. What if JB, after seeing that the head-shaving and pond-digging did not deter Josh's molestation ways, decided that perhaps adult porn would keep Josh  occupied until marriage and JB, himself, showed Josh and allowed Josh to secretly view it? It sounds kind of far-fetched, but JB is very poor father, after all. But it kind of makes sense because Josh got to use the computers for that purpose when they were supposedly all controlled and locked down from non family-friendly sites. This could also be why Michelle always cooed that they didn't watch any TV, which they clearly did from what we've seen on siblings' SM. She may have been over-compensating. It could have been JB, not Josh, who "deleted" all those porn files found by the Fedovsky kid. Josh may have been better at deleting them.

If JB did show or at least allow Josh special access to view porn, that could give JB a big incentive to do everything he could for Josh during the charges and trial in order to try to keep Josh from letting it be known how his porn-watching began. These are big "ifs" of course.

[feministxtian]

I do not feel sorry for Smuggar, JimSlob and OfJimSlob. They finally are being held accountable for their bullshit. I feel sorry for the victims and the little M's who have to carry that burden. 

Prison is not supposed to be a vacation. Smuggar will soon find out that what he wants has nothing to do with what he'll get. He is being held in protective custody now and will probably be in protective custody if or until he is sent to a SO unit. I do think that prisons take way too many punitive measures such as shitty food and the shitty conditions. However one way or another Smuggar will learn that he is not king turd on shit mountain. 

[Giraffe]

Curious children can find all sorts of things online. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Josh found it himself initially. It's such a bad idea not to teach kids the proper names of body parts. Maybe he just went to google "what is my pee-pee holder called" and it started him down the rabbit trail. 

 

I'm not saying all of this could have been avoided if they'd only taught him proper terminology but I do think by teaching normal childhood curiosity as wrong, bad, or sinful JB & M (and all who use the abusive "parenting" programs) easily opens the door to more and more "sinful" searches without anyone introducing him to it. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Giraffe
clarifying

[Cheetah]

When my oldest was in 4th grade it was around 2006 or so and my husband had a work computer (can't remember if it was a laptop or if it stayed at work) and we had one desktop that we all shared.  It was in our guest room.  One day I found some evidence that someone had been watching porn on there... I can't remember exactly but I think I was getting pop-up windows. I think I asked my husband about it and his 'no' was believable, so then I figured it was either my dad (really unlikely but possible) or some workman who had been in the house (also really unlikely).  But it turned out it was my 4th grader.  Someone in her school class had told her to go to such and such website.  I thought I had more time before having to be vigilant about what she was doing online.  Once she admitted it was her she seemed a little shell-shocked at what she had seen.  I think she said that she had no idea what was going to be on that website at all (vs knowing it was naked pictures but being shocked at how explicit that turned out to be).  Anyway, the point is - kids find this stuff without necessarily going looking for it deliberately.  

[Beermeet]

48 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I do not feel sorry for Smuggar, JimSlob and OfJimSlob. They finally are being held accountable for their bullshit. I feel sorry for the victims and the little M's who have to carry that burden. 

Prison is not supposed to be a vacation. Smuggar will soon find out that what he wants has nothing to do with what he'll get. He is being held in protective custody now and will probably be in protective custody if or until he is sent to a SO unit. I do think that prisons take way too many punitive measures such as shitty food and the shitty conditions. However one way or another Smuggar will learn that he is not king turd on shit mountain. 

He will be much more comfortable than the children in the videos he enjoyed.  I feel nothing for him.  

3 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

When my oldest was in 4th grade it was around 2006 or so and my husband had a work computer (can't remember if it was a laptop or if it stayed at work) and we had one desktop that we all shared.  It was in our guest room.  One day I found some evidence that someone had been watching porn on there... I can't remember exactly but I think I was getting pop-up windows. I think I asked my husband about it and his 'no' was believable, so then I figured it was either my dad (really unlikely but possible) or some workman who had been in the house (also really unlikely).  But it turned out it was my 4th grader.  Someone in her school class had told her to go to such and such website.  I thought I had more time before having to be vigilant about what she was doing online.  Once she admitted it was her she seemed a little shell-shocked at what she had seen.  I think she said that she had no idea what was going to be on that website at all (vs knowing it was naked pictures but being shocked at how explicit that turned out to be).  Anyway, the point is - kids find this stuff without necessarily going looking for it deliberately.  

Very true.  Kids find things out and talk.  It's always been.  Still, most don't watch csam. 

[Dandruff]

I hope efforts are made to give the M-kids a reasonably happy, distracting Christmas.

[Beermeet]

15 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I hope efforts are made to give the M-kids a reasonably happy, distracting Christmas.

I feel for them especially because they are not getting proper help to process this.  Most likely,  it's scary for then rn. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, Bobology said:

In an earlier thread there had been some discussion about how Josh found his first internet porn. Many of us have wondered about JB's motivation to both pay for Josh's defense and have amnesia on the pre-trial stand. Some have said that maybe Josh is privy to some of JB's sketchy financial shenanigans assuming there are any, which I believe there are. What if JB, after seeing that the head-shaving and pond-digging did not deter Josh's molestation ways, decided that perhaps adult porn would keep Josh  occupied until marriage and JB, himself, showed Josh and allowed Josh to secretly view it? It sounds kind of far-fetched, but JB is very poor father, after all. But it kind of makes sense because Josh got to use the computers for that purpose when they were supposedly all controlled and locked down from non family-friendly sites. This could also be why Michelle always cooed that they didn't watch any TV, which they clearly did from what we've seen on siblings' SM. She may have been over-compensating. It could have been JB, not Josh, who "deleted" all those porn files found by the Fedovsky kid. Josh may have been better at deleting them.

If JB did show or at least allow Josh special access to view porn, that could give JB a big incentive to do everything he could for Josh during the charges and trial in order to try to keep Josh from letting it be known how his porn-watching began. These are big "ifs" of course.

I think it's much simpler than that.  Clint, his former friend who testified, said they all knew about covenant eyes.  The vast majority of teenage boys would be super curious about what was behind the filter.  It's the modern equivalent of guys passing around their dad's Playboys.

[I know the difference between porn and Playboy, but the motivation for the curiosity being the same.)

Also, JB isn't a brilliant man, but if he allowed it he's not stupid enough to let the computers be given away before he confirmed they were wiped.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Someone mentioned upthread about prisons designing meals to provide as little nutritional value allowed.

Forget about flavor, but this is a really bad idea on a lot of levels.  Diets with poor nutritional value not only effect long term health, but can also cause health problems in the moment like gi issues, headaches, etc.  A healthy diet can help us manage stress and not compound whatever issues one has with spikes and crashes, etc.

Not to mention a lot of us get crankier if we are eating garbage, it would behoove the prison to minimize extra crankiness.

There has to be a way to give them an optimal diet economically and easy enough to prepare for the scale of diners.

1 hour ago, Beermeet said:

I feel for them especially because they are not getting proper help to process this.  Most likely,  it's scary for then rn. 

I bet they'll be spending it with people actively denying the elephant in the room, some very subdued, and catching the occasional upsetting whisper among adults.

Even though I doubt anyone outside the cult has access to the kids right now, I hope they have someone who can at least acknowledge how hard this is on them and give them someone to talk to.  Let them know it's okay to feel what they feel and be there for them.  

12-13 was the roughest age for me emotionally so it breaks my heart that Mac not only has to deal with her own pain, but we all know she's providing more child care for her siblings than is fair.