Jana Duggar 14: Child Endangerment Charges and Howlers Supporting Her Via Meme

[SassyPants]

But they found an unemployed teenager A-OK to green light without consulting a pastor? I think JB’s biggest no go is anyone he perceives as smarter than he is. Unfortunately, JB’s perceptions are way off. I think Dereck, Ben, Jeremy and Austin are all brighter and more perceptive than JBD-

Edited December 21, 2021 by SassyPants

[socalrules]

I just have a hard time believing any Duggar would, or could, spend seven hours discussing theology. It just sounds like they wanted Jeremy to sound so well-read and Godly. I don’t believe anything any of these people say or write. 

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, Idlewild said:

…

Im sure none of them were remunerated properly, but Derick does conveniently forget he gave up his job at Walmart and lived in relative luxury as a ‘missionary’ and then a student. They also flew home to the US quite a bit and he used his platform as Mr Duggar to grift for donations for several years.

I always suspected that Derick may have been “asked to resign” from the Walmart job because he was taking too much time off work because of Duggar-related stuff.  

Not defending him, but he seems to have been trying to figure out what he wanted to do with his life and got sucked into the Duggar borg for a while.  The grifting was almost certainly suggested and/or encouraged by the Duggars possibly in the wake of his losing his job.  As for the missionary stint in Dangerous Central America, I think the timing may have been prompted by the molestation scandal.  I remember the plans were announced very suddenly and that the first trip didn’t seem connected to a real “mission” (later trips connected them to a particular group).  It’s all pretty vague in my mind, but I wonder if Derick spent the first few years trying to make sense of what was going on with the Duggars and TLC and how he wanted to fit in.  Because he doesn’t look back on this time as a pleasant or satisfying period, he may not consider how easy things were for him in terms of not having to earn a living.

To be sure, there have been benefits for the first three sons-in-law when they married Duggars, but I can see how Derick may have become bitter and resentful when he realized JB lied about the money and other things in order to have power.   

[SassyPants]

33 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I always suspected that Derick may have been “asked to resign” from the Walmart job because he was taking too much time off work because of Duggar-related stuff.  

Not defending him, but he seems to have been trying to figure out what he wanted to do with his life and got sucked into the Duggar borg for a while.  The grifting was almost certainly suggested and/or encouraged by the Duggars possibly in the wake of his losing his job.  As for the missionary stint in Dangerous Central America, I think the timing may have been prompted by the molestation scandal.  I remember the plans were announced very suddenly and that the first trip didn’t seem connected to a real “mission” (later trips connected them to a particular group).  It’s all pretty vague in my mind, but I wonder if Derick spent the first few years trying to make sense of what was going on with the Duggars and TLC and how he wanted to fit in.  Because he doesn’t look back on this time as a pleasant or satisfying period, he may not consider how easy things were for him in terms of not having to earn a living.

To be sure, there have been benefits for the first three sons-in-law when they married Duggars, but I can see how Derick may have become bitter and resentful when he realized JB lied about the money and other things in order to have power.   

I always thought that TLC had planned to film the mission trip as part of a season, but then Josh’s transgressions put the show on hold, and it was too late for Dereck to rescind his resignation from WM.

Edited December 21, 2021 by SassyPants

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I always thought that TLC had planned to film the mission trip as part of a season, but then Josh’s transgressions put the show on hold, and it was too late for Dereck to rescind his resignation from WM.

Could be— but I think they left sooner than originally planned.  And in the end they did cover the  Missionary Adventure on “Counting On.”

My point was that Derick seemed to be trying to fit into the Duggar way of doing things (including the grifting) for a while, but it wasn’t clear that he enjoyed it.

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

I just have a hard time believing any Duggar would, or could, spend seven hours discussing theology. It just sounds like they wanted Jeremy to sound so well-read and Godly. I don’t believe anything any of these people say or write. 

I imagine “discussing theology” equals rehashing Gothard talking points and trying to convert Theobro Jeremy to IBLP. Not going to lie' it would be interestinb to be a fly on the wall to hear the dogma duel between people certain they are right…for the first hour. 😂 After tha…🥱

24 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Could be— but I think they left sooner than originally planned.  And in the end they did cover the  Missionary Adventure on “Counting On.”

My point was that Derick seemed to be trying to fit into the Duggar way of doing things (including the grifting) for a while, but it wasn’t clear that he enjoyed it.

I think the missionary thing was all Derrick. He was in Nepal after all, though I wonder what missionary agency he was with. My guess is the volatile situation in CA was pretty triggering. I wonder if it was a reason for Jill to start therapy too. I would give him props if they came home because they realized they weren’t emotionally or mentally well in the stresses of cross cultural living. A lot of missionaries don’t admit that, and it’s not good.

[anjulibai]

I thought they announced the missionary thing to CA right after Jill gave birth to Israel, just before the molestation story came out. It was mentioned in that last season and it was concerning even to the Duggars since Jill just had that traumatic birth. It had nothing to do with trying to get away from the molestation scandel. 

[marmalade]

7 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

I thought they announced the missionary thing to CA right after Jill gave birth to Israel, just before the molestation story came out. It was mentioned in that last season and it was concerning even to the Duggars since Jill just had that traumatic birth. It had nothing to do with trying to get away from the molestation scandel. 

Right. The mission trip was planned before the molestation story broke. They finally left for Danger America when Izzy was 3 or 4 months old. 

[SassyPants]

Could anyone source the claim that J and D announced the mission trip before the molestations were exposed in May of 2015? Dereck was still working at WM, and then had mouth surgery after Izzy was born (early April 2015). I don’t think he would have announced a move to the mission field before he quit working at WM. Or at least that seems exactly opposite of what most people would do. Most people would have the baby and surgery paid for on company time and insurance, give notice, and then mention going on a mission. Announcing first, would open the likelihood of termination. Further, would you quit your job right before the birth of a baby and having a surgery? If so, who would have paid for those pricey medical procedures?

[Magenta]

17 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Jinger and Jeremy’s book says that they almost broke up over theological differences. Jeremy said he and Jim Bob “disagreed on free will and predestination.” There was a lot of discussion between Jeremy and Jim Bob when Jeremy visited the family, and Jinger’s brothers also questioned him about his theology. Jim Bob continued questioning Jeremy over the phone for more than four months. 

Then Jim Bob invited Jeremy to a conference. (They don’t specify, but it was clearly an IBLP event.) Jinger (who had been getting negative comments about Jeremy’s worldliness) got cold feet and decided to tell her father to tell Jeremy that she had decided not to start a relationship. She always claims that they were not in a relationship prior to the courtship, even though everyone’s talking about whether they’re compatible enough to get married. It’s ridiculous.

Anyway, Ben and Jessa intervened, and Jinger had a brief moment of self-awareness about what a people pleaser she is, and the not-yet-relationship was back on. Jim Bob and Jeremy spent over seven hours talking theology.(Michelle was present, and Jinger joined the conversation in progress, but it’s not clear if they said anything.) The same day, Jim Bob heard someone singing Jeremy’s favorite hymn and took it as a sign. He and Michelle spoke with a pastor about who told them that it was okay, and they gave Jeremy the green light.

TL, DR - the Duggars took the theological differences very seriously, but ultimately decided not to stand in the way of Jinger marrying a man she loved, who was a devout Christian. 

I call bullshit.  My bet is the hours of conversation (if indeed there were hours of conversation at all) involved contract negotiations. 

[Meggo]

18 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Jinger and Jeremy’s book says that they almost broke up over theological differences. Jeremy said he and Jim Bob “disagreed on free will and predestination.” There was a lot of discussion between Jeremy and Jim Bob when Jeremy visited the family, and Jinger’s brothers also questioned him about his theology. Jim Bob continued questioning Jeremy over the phone for more than four months. 

 

This confuses me. I know they are UBER religious and all - but... does anyone really have theological conversations with their sisters not-boyfriend about theology? And use that as an "In or Out" determination? 

[Sullie06]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:26 AM, FleeJanaFree said:

I work with kids. If I lost a kid at work, I’m sure it would be an accident but I would still expect to be fired and charged with neglect, what makes Jana different? 

Agreed on this statement! My sister runs a daycare and if they "lost" a child, even briefly they would be in trouble. It could range from fines, all the way up to them closing the daycare (we had a daycare close here 2 summers ago because a child got out and was found walking down a busy road by police officers) and this is where ratio's come in. She has to have a certain number of staff to children at all times and if they are out of ratio it's a huge deal. If childcare centers and schools have ratio's, it goes to show that people can only safely watch so many children. To bad Jana didn't have the ability to say no, and if she did, then it's on her. 

[EmCatlyn]

12 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I imagine “discussing theology” equals rehashing Gothard talking points and trying to convert Theobro Jeremy to IBLP. Not going to lie' it would be interestinb to be a fly on the wall to hear the dogma duel between people certain they are right…for the first hour. 😂 After tha…🥱

I think the missionary thing was all Derrick. He was in Nepal after all, though I wonder what missionary agency he was with. My guess is the volatile situation in CA was pretty triggering. I wonder if it was a reason for Jill to start therapy too. I would give him props if they came home because they realized they weren’t emotionally or mentally well in the stresses of cross cultural living. A lot of missionaries don’t admit that, and it’s not good.

I think you are right that the missionary thing was prompted by Derick, and that they (especially Jill) may have had difficulties with “cross cultural living.”  

What I remember is that they left sooner than expected and we snarked about whether Derick really had the missionary position / backing of the group that was supposedly sending them.  Then came the grifting “send us money to support our mission.”

My speculation is that they may have left sooner than expected because of the stress of the molestation scandal breaking, and that Derick was trying out the Duggar way when he went into the grifting phase.  He plainly had admiration for JB and trusted the direction the Duggars were going in.  I hypothesize that the molestation information was one of the first things that made him think.  But it is just a guess.

 

[Sullie06]

On 12/14/2021 at 11:46 AM, Mama Mia said:

But that’s the thing - again, don’t know about Arkansas, maybe they hand endangerment tickets out like candy — but in my state - endangerment charges are pretty unusual. I worked with literally hundreds  of active CPS cases, the majority with the parents reunifying from foster care — and very few of them had endangerment charges. Almost all of the endangerment charges that resulted in anything were around kids getting into needles etc that were left out while a parent nodded off, or driving under the influence with a kid in the car —- Certainly none for a kid wandering off UNLESS it was already an active CPS case or the parent was heavily under the influence when it happened.Since it’s not  likely Jana was high - the larger possibility is the M kids have an open monitoring case. Which I would assume would make the rest of the family even more resentful of Josh. Here is the sister who is helping out, just got back from vacation, has a terrifying- but extremely common- experience while babysitting - AND gets in legal trouble and her name dragged because of the trouble her brother has caused.  

Could also be that she didn't know the child was missing until the police showed up with the child and the police released the children were not being properly supervised. Plus if she really did lie about knowing the child that's just shady.

I am in NY and work in Law Enforcement. Unfortunately Child Endangerment charges are pretty common here and the range of reasons is wide. I actually have two juveniles on for beating up a younger juvenile and were charged with CE. I've seen it for not getting a child proper medical care, having drugs/drug paraphernalia around children, lack of proper supervision, a parent disobeying an order of protection which put the children in danger. I've even seen low level sex offenses plead down to endangerment (mostly statutory rape type situations) 

[Lurker]

Even if there were theological differences between Jeremy and JimBob, I am sure the visions of dollar signs erased them from JimBob’s consideration.

Jeremy is articulate, photogenic, and has a back story that could be included in the show.  Soccer player, lived and traveled in Europe, reformed sinner with a story, family with a ministry and a charity, plus Grandma Vuolo.  Calvinist leanings were zeroed out by the potential of People covers.

[RosyDaisy]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Could anyone source the claim that J and D announced the mission trip before the molestations were exposed in May of 2015?

Last episode of 19KAC.  They showed clips from the next season that was already in the works.  If I'm not mistaken, the original plan was to go to Nepal after a devastating earthquake.  Then the  molestation scandal happened.  That season never aired.  It was scrapped.  19KAC got cancelled, and a few months later they re-branded as Jill and Jessa: Counting On.

[Sullie06]

On 12/14/2021 at 12:01 PM, SassyPants said:

Jana has commented on IG to clarify the situation. Her comment makes zero sense to me as we know she had to pay bail/a fine. She claims a child wandered away from the house and LE was called by a third party. Jana claims she was frightened. So wouldn’t that indicate Jana realized the child was missing? She claims that she was not arrested, but then why did she have to pay money, make a plea and secure representation? Did Jana get the JBD lying gene? 

My guess is they gave her an appearance ticket, which is technically an arrest. 

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, Sullie06 said:

My guess is they gave her an appearance ticket, which is technically an arrest. 

Yea, I think a lot of people would be surprised if they googled their local court records of neighbors and family. You might find some drugs/theft/ assault under charges and bail — but you’re also going to find a bunch of speeding tickets, expired registration, jaywalking, etc

[nokidsmom]

16 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I always suspected that Derick may have been “asked to resign” from the Walmart job because he was taking too much time off work because of Duggar-related stuff.

I also suspected the same.   Given that he was in accounting for such a large corporation he would have to be around for things like monthly, quarterly, yearly financial closings and there might have been conflicts with the family dog and pony show.  His in-law family would have no concept at all of working around a 9 to 5 job that probably required more, and it was up to him to adjust to their schedule.  

I agree that he was trying to work out how to mesh with the Duggar family borg and after a few years of trying that, plus finding out various not so good things about the family he married into., it seems living a life of grifting under JB's thumb wasn't so appealing after all. 

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

Agreed on this statement! My sister runs a daycare and if they "lost" a child, even briefly they would be in trouble. It could range from fines, all the way up to them closing the daycare (we had a daycare close here 2 summers ago because a child got out and was found walking down a busy road by police officers) and this is where ratio's come in. She has to have a certain number of staff to children at all times and if they are out of ratio it's a huge deal. If childcare centers and schools have ratio's, it goes to show that people can only safely watch so many children. To bad Jana didn't have the ability to say no, and if she did, then it's on her. 

Agreed also.  And if the daycare or preschool that my son attended had ever lost a child, who was then found wandering alone on a busy street, (even if not my child), I would have been deeply concerned and upset.  I would have immediately found another daycare for him.  I understand wanting to be supportive of a sibling, but the Duggar sisters who are publicly defending Jana, with "it could happen to anyone!" are missing the point.  Yes, it does sometime happen, but maybe stop accessing the free babysitting services with zero regard as to how many young children are left in one person's care?  If you want to have a large amount of children - that's on you.  Watch them yourself, or make sure there are enough adults present who are actively watching the children left in their care.  Be a responsible parent.  Why is that so hard?

[Meggo]

2 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

Agreed on this statement! My sister runs a daycare and if they "lost" a child, even briefly they would be in trouble. It could range from fines, all the way up to them closing the daycare (we had a daycare close here 2 summers ago because a child got out and was found walking down a busy road by police officers) and this is where ratio's come in. She has to have a certain number of staff to children at all times and if they are out of ratio it's a huge deal. If childcare centers and schools have ratio's, it goes to show that people can only safely watch so many children. To bad Jana didn't have the ability to say no, and if she did, then it's on her. 

I am pretty sure even if the DAYCARE found a kid who had "escaped" (some kids are just flight risks) they need to call someone and report it. My kid isn't a runner - but has hung out with some who were runner and have managed to "escape". Mostly to the front sidewalk where someone catches up to them but I think even in those cases, they ended up having to report it. 

And I also know - from my son's daycare - that the kids who need extra attention (like legitimate, documented, extra support) - the daycare applies to get funding to keep more staff in those rooms. (Handy when you have a flight risk, or the kid who will clear the room at daycare with violence). 

 

[neuroticcat]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

What I remember is that they left sooner than expected and we snarked about whether Derick really had the missionary position / backing of the group that was supposedly sending them.  Then came the grifting “send us money to support our mission.”

 

 

Unfortunately a lot of missionaries and church workers are just grifters on their own, too. It’s pretty common for anyone who can raise enough money to get themselves to the mission field with very little financial accountability. I think it would seem normal to them even without JB to solicit donations to fulfill their calling. Maybe they didn’t get much support - I can’t see even would-be donors convinced that people on reality TV need help, even if in reality the Dillards weren’t getting paid. IIRC Derrick did a one year thing at his church that he had to raise support for before getting over the grifter phase.

[mpheels]

4 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

Could also be that she didn't know the child was missing until the police showed up with the child and the police released the children were not being properly supervised. Plus if she really did lie about knowing the child that's just shady.

I assume “denied knowing the child” actually means Jana didn’t notice a kid was missing, then when an officer knocked on the door, she insisted all kids were accounted for until the officer retrieved the missing kid from the back of the patrol car. That is, Jana probably didn’t deny knowing who a specific child was, but she did deny knowing about any missing children. That could also be the difference between a warning and charges.

[Cam]

I think Derrick and Jill thought they had more public appeal, they thought they were more popular than they actually were. They thought since money was pouring into JB’s hands from TLC exposure that they could ride the fame train to make money. They were young and figuring things out, at least they tried, only to find out it didn’t work. They quickly moved on to other things, 

i also think JB thought he could treat Derrick the same way he treated his daughters, like they were all less than and should be grateful just to have a roof over their head, food and clothes. They should be happy with that and never, ever actually WANT more, say for example, a steady paycheck from the TV series. JB had never paid his kids so he sure wasn’t gonna pay Derrick either. He thought Derrick would just fall in line with his kids and grovel at JB’s feet whenever he wanted something. 
 

[nokidsmom]

On 12/16/2021 at 2:50 PM, neuroticcat said:

Projecting here, but I came from a controlling home. Even after I was 18 I still did whatever my parents told me to in the way they told me to. There was emotional and financial control and manipulation - choosing something not permitted was seen as betrayal. Once I was done with college, I finally began saying “no” because of a relationship with a man. It wasn’t until therapy in my thirties that I realized I absolutely could have said “no” all along and legally left at 18. The reality was, though, it would have cost me: cost college tuition, family estrangement, emotional blackmail, resisting the entire family culture I had been raised with, and a difficult entry to adulthood. At 18, staying trapped seemed the only viable option, but it was costing me freedom and agency. Sadly, I didn’t feel I was worth it to pay the other relational costs, but I’m glad I eventually felt it was worth it for a relationship, because that was a stepping stone out.

@neuroticcat not to get OT but saw this today and want to say this is pretty close to my experience.   I wasn't raised fundie but my parents were still pretty controlling and what you describe is pretty close to what they did.   When I went to college, it was pretty much the college they wanted me to go to and how I was going to do it.  I would have like to have left when I was 18 but it would have cost me just like it did with you: college tuition, completing my education, losing emotional support from family, all things that would have complicated my life.   When I realized that I was paying the price in terms of relationships (not just at the current time but also in the past) that's when I began to say no.   It was many years later that I realized that I had more agency than they wanted me to believe and had I realized that earlier, I would have made some different decisions.