Jana Duggar 14: Child Endangerment Charges and Howlers Supporting Her Via Meme

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

Ben wasn’t raised IBLP/ATI.  I seem to recall his family was more VF (aka house of tool).  Which is still fundie crazy cult but of a slightly different not Gothard teaching/leadership.

I know we’ve talked about it before, but it really is interesting that of all of the adult daughters, they’ve all remained extremely conservative Christian/ fundie/fundie-light (no complete runners yet) - But one is unmarried and the four married ones don’t have deeply steeped, IBLP/ATI from birth, mega-family husbands. Why no Bates or equivalent matches? 

[imokit]

24 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I know we’ve talked about it before, but it really is interesting that of all of the adult daughters, they’ve all remained extremely conservative Christian/ fundie/fundie-light (no complete runners yet) - But one is unmarried and the four married ones don’t have deeply steeped, IBLP/ATI from birth, mega-family husbands. Why no Bates or equivalent matches? 

I don't think Derrick fits that mold.  He was conservative Christian who found extreme religion after his father died and sought out JB for guidance.  But he grew up mainstream conservative Christian, went to public school and secular university, he just had a funny couple of years which led him to the Duggars.

Jeremy also grew up relatively mainstream - doesn't he have an alcohol related citation from his youth?  His family are a very different brand of fundamentalist Christianity.

I don't understand how those too got past JB.  But they were both raised completely different flavour of Christianity to Duggar land.

[SorenaJ]

11 minutes ago, imokit said:

I don't think Derrick fits that mold.  He was conservative Christian who found extreme religion after his father died and sought out JB for guidance.  But he grew up mainstream conservative Christian, went to public school and secular university, he just had a funny couple of years which led him to the Duggars.

Jeremy also grew up relatively mainstream - doesn't he have an alcohol related citation from his youth?  His family are a very different brand of fundamentalist Christianity.

I don't understand how those too got past JB.  But they were both raised completely different flavour of Christianity to Duggar land.

So was Katey I believe, but they later turned to IBLP. I suppose as long as you get "saved" later, then it's okay. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

So was Katey I believe, but they later turned to IBLP. I suppose as long as you get "saved" later, then it's okay. 

Sometimes those ones are the most fervent. Maybe that’s how they got past JB. Plus they might have a juicy “saved” story. Ones who grew up in it have the most boring saved stories. Fundies love the stories of a wild child being saved and turning their lives around. It’s like they are listening to fundie fan fiction in church. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

26 minutes ago, imokit said:

Jeremy also grew up relatively mainstream - doesn't he have an alcohol related citation from his youth?  His family are a very different brand of fundamentalist Christianity.

I don't recall exactly what or where but I remember Jeremy saying something about Catholicism at some point that sounded super familiar to me from the former Catholics turned fundy-lite in my family.  

I know his dad is a preacher too and it makes me wonder if his dad was the one who broke away from the RCC or if it was a previous generation.  Or maybe I'm remembering wrong and his family was never Catholic except in some fever dream I had once.  

 

[Mama Mia]

21 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Sometimes those ones are the most fervent. Maybe that’s how they got past JB. Plus they might have a juicy “saved” story. Ones who grew up in it have the most boring saved stories. Fundies love the stories of a wild child being saved and turning their lives around. It’s like they are listening to fundie fan fiction in church. 

That seems like a bad bet on their parts. I know several. Not as deep fundamentalist as the Duggars - but born agains after being in gangs / addicted to drugs - they tend to get DEEPLY fervent —- for awhile. But then often come out of it. I do have one extended family member who became some kind of IFB (?) preacher and homeschooled, sent a kid on a mission, all of that — but they never went quiver-full, skirts only, women don’t work level — that seems like a hard place to get to if you weren’t raised that way. Which is why it’s strange to me that the Duggars picked those sort of hard-core Christian Husbands for their daughters, instead of second generation kids like their own.

 

18 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't recall exactly what or where but I remember Jeremy saying something about Catholicism at some point that sounded super familiar to me from the former Catholics turned fundy-lite in my family.  

I know his dad is a preacher too and it makes me wonder if his dad was the one who broke away from the RCC or if it was a previous generation.  Or maybe I'm remembering wrong and his family was never Catholic except in some fever dream I had once.  

 

Man, the anti-Catholic stance from the former Catholics who become born again is something weird! The people I know who went deep in like that after gangs/crime/drugs were mostly raised at least nominally Catholic, if any religion, and went full on “the Catholics will go to Hell!” — so weird- like, dude, you’re talking about your mom! Yikes.

[OHFL2009]

29 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't recall exactly what or where but I remember Jeremy saying something about Catholicism at some point that sounded super familiar to me from the former Catholics turned fundy-lite in my family.  

I know his dad is a preacher too and it makes me wonder if his dad was the one who broke away from the RCC or if it was a previous generation.  Or maybe I'm remembering wrong and his family was never Catholic except in some fever dream I had once.  

 

I think I remember something about their family being Catholic at one point too. I feel like it was Jeremy's grandparents that left Catholicism, but I could be totally wrong on that. But based on my experience with my own Italian, Philadelphia-adjacent Catholic family, I would put a hefty wager on the family having been Catholic at some point. 

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I know we’ve talked about it before, but it really is interesting that of all of the adult daughters, they’ve all remained extremely conservative Christian/ fundie/fundie-light (no complete runners yet) - But one is unmarried and the four married ones don’t have deeply steeped, IBLP/ATI from birth, mega-family husbands. Why no Bates or equivalent matches? 

Imo, their show influenced the directions of their lives. They were surrounded by a tv crew for years and whether they realized it or not, they were being continually exposed to a tiny bit of life outside their religion.
And this: JB wanted to keep interest in the show going. He figured why not make marrying off his daughters part of the storyline. I think he made what he thought were eligible suitors fit into this plan. He didn’t have time to drag things out. No time to say, well, that one won’t work, let’s try another dude. I almost feel like the Ben story of him living with the fam to get to know Jessa before marriage was concocted as a storyline and if they weren’t on a tv show, JB would never have gone that route. But it made for different take on fundie relationships.
 

 Imo, JB was vetting potential husbands through the lens of keeping the show moving forward, that was his priority,  not “how do I keep my family steeped in the IBLP/ATI lifestyle?” Probably made out like a bandit when ratings soared with the wedding episodes and then ones when the daughters started giving birth to their own kids.

So, indirectly, his greed tripped him up. With the show’s demise, he may do things differently with the younger daughters.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Cam

[SassyPants]

14 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

That seems like a bad bet on their parts. I know several. Not as deep fundamentalist as the Duggars - but born agains after being in gangs / addicted to drugs - they tend to get DEEPLY fervent —- for awhile. But then often come out of it. I do have one extended family member who became some kind of IFB (?) preacher and homeschooled, sent a kid on a mission, all of that — but they never went quiver-full, skirts only, women don’t work level — that seems like a hard place to get to if you weren’t raised that way. Which is why it’s strange to me that the Duggars picked those sort of hard-core Christian Husbands for their daughters, instead of second generation kids like their own.

 

Man, the anti-Catholic stance from the former Catholics who become born again is something weird! The people I know who went deep in like that after gangs/crime/drugs were mostly raised at least nominally Catholic, if any religion, and went full on “the Catholics will go to Hell!” — so weird- like, dude, you’re talking about your mom! Yikes.

Maybe no one in their tight circle was interested in leaving and cleaving with a Duggar. Sometimes when you’re too close, you see and know things that tell you what you don’t want in your life. I’m sure for some (many?) being JB’s in law is on that list. I think Steve Maxwell might be on that list too.

Edited December 17, 2021 by SassyPants

[ElizaB]

Thinking of Jana's trouble has got me wondering: In Duggarland how many children is it considered "OK" for one person to watch? Daycares have ratio rules for a reason. While she may have made an honest mistake that anyone could have made- she quite possibly could have been in a situation that was in itself not safe and neglectful. Michelle always said, saying there are too many kids is like saying there are too many flowers. Well if there are too many flowers they will choke each other and die. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

17 minutes ago, OHFL2009 said:

I think I remember something about their family being Catholic at one point too. I feel like it was Jeremy's grandparents that left Catholicism, but I could be totally wrong on that. But based on my experience with my own Italian, Philadelphia-adjacent Catholic family, I would put a hefty wager on the family having been Catholic at some point. 

That's why I'm wondering if I really heard that or it was just my assumption based on his family being Italian.  IME fundies with Polish or Italian last names invariably broke from a formerly Catholic family somewhere down the line.

Unlike the Irish.  My mom's side is Irish Catholic, but plenty of people in the US have Irish last names that stem from colonial lines which were largely Protestant particularly those in Appalachia and the rest of the south.  But Italians and Poles mostly came later and from countries where protestants were very few and far between.  

 

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

Thinking of Jana's trouble has got me wondering: In Duggarland how many children is it considered "OK" for one person to watch? Daycares have ratio rules for a reason. While she may have made an honest mistake that anyone could have made- she quite possibly could have been in a situation that was in itself not safe and neglectful. Michelle always said, saying there are too many kids is like saying there are too many flowers. Well if there are too many flowers they will choke each other and die. 

Did you see the video posted on Reddit where toddler Hannie carries baby JGM over concrete and heaves her into a wagon? I really think Duggarville was/is Lord of the Flies with a side of Gothard. I’m sure the level of what is considered acceptable childcare is so low amongst that group that it’s barely in existence. We’ve seen enough of the hacks and feeding babies on their backs straight out of tin cans, children with guns, children racing through the house on scooters to know safety is a low concern.

[metheglyn]

6 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's why I'm wondering if I really heard that or it was just my assumption based on his family being Italian.  IME fundies with Polish or Italian last names invariably broke from a formerly Catholic family somewhere down the line.

Unlike the Irish.  My mom's side is Irish Catholic, but plenty of people in the US have Irish last names that stem from colonial lines which were largely Protestant particularly those in Appalachia and the rest of the south.  But Italians and Poles mostly came later and from countries where protestants were very few and far between.  

 

I'm pretty sure something about his family being historically Catholic came up in the episode where Jinger and Jeremy visited his grandparents, but like others I don't remember the specifics. The shift was certainly long enough ago for him to feel comfortably calling Catholicism both pagan and demonic, while still feeling comfortable visiting his grandparents, so it does sound like they were the one who might have switched.

Citation for his claims about Catholicism (and many other things):  https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jeremy-vuolo-sermon-155982/

Edited December 17, 2021 by metheglyn
added link

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

That seems like a bad bet on their parts. I know several. Not as deep fundamentalist as the Duggars - but born agains after being in gangs / addicted to drugs - they tend to get DEEPLY fervent —- for awhile. But then often come out of it. I do have one extended family member who became some kind of IFB (?) preacher and homeschooled, sent a kid on a mission, all of that — but they never went quiver-full, skirts only, women don’t work level — that seems like a hard place to get to if you weren’t raised that way. Which is why it’s strange to me that the Duggars picked those sort of hard-core Christian Husbands for their daughters, instead of second generation kids like their own.

But some do stick with it for a long time. Look at JB and Michelle. JB grew up conservative Christian and his father definitely didn’t approve of the quiverful life. Michelle wasn’t even conservative Christian growing up. Kelly and Gil were just conservative Christians that went fundie after marriage. I think JB assumed these guys would be just like him. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

25 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Man, the anti-Catholic stance from the former Catholics who become born again is something weird! The people I know who went deep in like that after gangs/crime/drugs were mostly raised at least nominally Catholic, if any religion, and went full on “the Catholics will go to Hell!” — so weird- like, dude, you’re talking about your mom! Yikes.

Yep!  If you want to find a zealot just look for a born again who was raised Catholic.  A close relative went fundy-lite when I was a kid and I was absolutely sick when she kept talking about how my father and the rest of my family were destined for hell.  Sometimes they can maintain the agree to disagree thing for a while but it always comes back to trying to save you.

I get the panic of thinking people you love will suffer eternal torment.  If I believed that I'd be trying to save my family too, but they go about it the hard way.  Instead of trying to save everyone it's easier to just drop the radical belief system.

On a side note, everyone in my family (besides my mom) who went fundy-lite is still unhappy.  They went in looking for peace and several decades later they're still struggling with anger and unhappiness.  People in my family who have issues but relatively content with solid (if not perfect) self esteem just chill with live and let live approach to religion.  Believe what you want, but don't foist it on us and hang on to a casual belief in God because it's more pleasant to imagine mom and dad in Heaven than otherwise but spending part of a Sunday in church or giving any religion money except as fee for wedding or baptism, com/conf is a bridge too far.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Did you see the video posted on Reddit where toddler Hannie carries baby JGM over concrete and heaves her into a wagon? I really think Duggarville was/is Lord of the Flies with a side of Gothard. I’m sure the level of what is considered acceptable childcare is so low amongst that group that it’s barely in existence. We’ve seen enough of the hacks and feeding babies on their backs straight out of tin cans, children with guns, children racing through the house on scooters to know safety is a low concern.

I would love a list of ER visits, broken bones, and stitches from the past few decades. I know that’s personal medical info but I think it would still be a long list. I think it would be the same for the Bates family too.

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I would love a list of ER visits, broken bones, and stitches from the past few decades. I know that’s personal medical info but I think it would still be a long list. I think it would be the same for the Bates family too.

My SIL grew up in a large family. She and my brother had 3 boys in a space of 37 months. Just by happenstance, my husband’s company moved their office to an area close to where by brother and SIL loved, so we became their neighbors. At that time, the boys were 4,2 and 1, and we were their emergency contact. Let just say I was busy.  I have to say their home was the cross between a zoo and an emergency room. So many accidents, illnesses, untoward events. I can’t imagine their home X6+, insane. 
 

The boys are 26(next week), 24 and soon to be 23, and all are solid citizens. Wish the Duggars could say the same.

[EmmieJ]

23 hours ago, tsukinokawa said:

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2021/12/blind-item-5_12.html

 

forgive me for this but I spotted this blind item in cdan and the comments are saying it is about Jana. Do you guys have any thoughts about it ?

frankly speaking, I am still bit hesitant to believe it. 

 

  Hide contents

I wonder what the untraditional relationships with men mean ?

 

 

Where this blind item lost me was the part where the writer says it's a family he/she really likes.  Um, what?  If they are indeed referring to the Duggars, then that is messed up to begin with.  Also, what the hell is "untraditional relationships with men"?.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Where this blind item lost me was the part where the writer says it's a family he/she really likes.  Um, what?  If they are indeed referring to the Duggars, then that is messed up to begin with.  Also, what the hell is "untraditional relationships with men"?.  

I read it as they really liked this member of the family, not that they really liked the family as a whole.  Either way it's not true, like they snuck the kid out and let it wander the streets in the hopes Jana wouldn't notice for long enough to get cited?  Crazy.

[noseybutt]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Maybe no one in their tight circle was interested in leaving and cleaving with a Duggar. Sometimes when you’re too close, you see and know things that tell you what you don’t want in your life. I’m sure for some (many?) being JB’s in law is on that list. I think Steve Maxwell might be on that list too.

This.

Seeing a family up close can trump denomination affiliation, even in extremely conservative circles. 

And JB would have no idea if that was the dynamic. It would not have been spoken to his face.

Instead, he would have seen suitors for other conservative groups as flattery. And/or he may not have been versed in the theological differences. As others have point out, IBLP really is it's own thing but JB may not have realized the extent of the differences.

[fluffernutter]

My uncle came home from Vietnam and found a fundie church. He was wrecked from the war. He quickly married my aunt, who had been waiting for him. They became a homeschooling, skirts only, at church every day family. He would try to get his brother and sisters to convert to his religion, and even though none of them weren't Christian, he would constantly talk of their souls being in peril if they didn't convert to his church. Eventually, the family kinda wrote him off and stopped inviting him to stuff. I was sad- his daughter was the only cousin my age and I missed her a lot at family get togethers since I was an only child. So FF several years, I'm working in a drug store as my after school job. He walks in and buys a pack of smokes, and didn't even recognize me. I went home and told my mom, as this uncle would NEVER smoke. Turns out he had an 18 year old girlfriend and left his wife and kids for a girl 2 years older than my cousin. He and New and Improved! Wife went on to have three or four kids. My poor cousins and aunt were completely blindsided. I saw that girl cousin and her mom just a few months ago and to this day they are dealing with the fall-out of the whole thing. He died a few years back of a massive heart attack. 

[sableduck]

I read JerJing’s book.  It’s pretty obvious that JB did not like Jeremy and did not want him around—Jessa and Ben were the ones pushing it and Jinger liked him a lot.  It was someone outside the family, IIrC, that finally convinced JB to lay off and let Jeremy and Jinger be together. 

I think JB decided it was a lost cause.  But he put Jeremy through a lot of hurt and crap, and there was a subtle bitterness in Jeremy’s writing.  

Edited December 17, 2021 by sableduck

[mpheels]

13 minutes ago, sableduck said:

I read JerJing’s book.  It’s pretty obvious that JB did not like Jeremy and did not want him around—Jessa and Ben were the ones pushing it and Jinger liked him a lot.  It was someone outside the family, IIrC, that finally convinced JB to lay off and let Jeremy and Jinger be together. 

I think JB decided it was a lost cause.  But he put Jeremy through a lot of hurt and crap, and there was a subtle bitterness in Jeremy’s writing.  

Religious differences aside, Jeremy is the most like JB of all the sons in law. I expect that didn’t sit well with JB, whether he was conscious of the similarities or not. There’s only room for one fundie grifter supreme in the Duggarverse.

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, mpheels said:

Religious differences aside, Jeremy is the most like JB of all the sons in law. I expect that didn’t sit well with JB, whether he was conscious of the similarities or not. There’s only room for one fundie grifter supreme in the Duggarverse.

I do think Jeremy probably is a lot like JB in narcissism and control issues. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[onekidanddone]

9 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Did you see the video posted on Reddit where toddler Hannie carries baby JGM over concrete and heaves her into a wagon? I really think Duggarville was/is Lord of the Flies with a side of Gothard. I’m sure the level of what is considered acceptable childcare is so low amongst that group that it’s barely in existence. We’ve seen enough of the hacks and feeding babies on their backs straight out of tin cans, children with guns, children racing through the house on scooters to know safety is a low concern.

Can you post the link please?