(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 42: Prosecution Rested. After His Conviction Maybe We Can, Too

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, ToriAmos said:

What do you think Josh Duggar thinks about, while sitting through all this evidence? Is he monitoring Anna and others to see what they're taking in, so he can refine his perception control? Is he following the tech discussion to come up with things to tell his lawyer to ask about? Is he NOT following the tech disucssion because he clearly doesn't know enough about computers to cover his tracks? Is he in some separate la-la land where what he did isn't wrong? Does his idea of God enable him to believe that he is on the side of the righteous, because at least he doesn't kill unborn babies like liberals/Dems/the government? Is he actually thinking I am going to jail for a very long time...

Apologies if no one wants to enter the mind of this criminal, but it is so hard to understand.

He’s praying “let me out of this just one more time and I’ll be a good man”. He prays that the jury is touched and let’s him go… this one last time…

[hoipolloi]

8 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

No prior law enforcement experience.  No training in the subject matter she’s testifying about.

Those are the things that struck me. She's skating on thin ice as an expert witness in a criminal trial, and you can be sure that Fottrell's prior testimony will help the prosecution with technical questions. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

We have no reason to believe that Jill would find it empowering or cathartic to testify.  She may be willing if needed but could be very relieved if she doesn’t need to.  Therefore, let’s hope for her sake that, if she would prefer not to, she won’t have to.

I think there are at least three things about this trial that are disturbing to the four Duggar victims.

1. This trial is bringing up repressed traumatic memories.  In Joy’s case it is possible that she did not consciously remember all the details because when it happened she was too young to process it.

2. This trial is showing the whole world their family in a bad light.  Jill and Jessa know that Bobye Holt’s testimony show that what they told Meghan Kelly was a very deliberately toned-down “half-truth.” So not only is Josh a monster, but their parents covered it up and Jill and Jessa collaborated.

3. This trial is bringing things that should be private about them into the public eye.  Not only do they have to hear what their brother did in downloading CSAM, but the whole world is hearing what he did to them.  I believe it was Jill (but it could have been Jessa) who during the Megan Kelly interview said that the scandal coming out again in 2016 was worse than the actual molestation because of the public attention.  Allowing for exaggeration, I do think that having their story out in public must feel terrible.

Maybe someday Jill and Joy will write a book (with a good ghostwriter) in which they share their account and their feelings and how they got through it all.  That might do them some good (as well as earn them some money).  I don’t think Jill testifying will.

There’s an additional consideration- GUILT.

it’s common and unfortunate for a survivor to feel that, had they acted/spoke out/etc earlier the present crime wouldn’t have occurred.  In Duggardom, where everything is a woman’s fault, this is magnified.  The survivors are watching their world crumble and it’s not hard to see that they may feel responsible for not stopping it.

[karenb4729]

3 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

We have no reason to believe that Jill would find it empowering or cathartic to testify.  She may be willing if needed but could be very relieved if she doesn’t need to.  Therefore, let’s hope for her sake that, if she would prefer not to, she won’t have to.

I believe it was Jill (but it could have been Jessa) who during the Megan Kelly interview said that the scandal coming out again in 2016 was worse than the actual molestation because of the public attention.  Allowing for exaggeration, I do think that having their story out in public must feel terrible

It was Jill, and she was crying when talking about it.  I also think having it out in the public is awful and I think that's what Joy is experiencing now.  Plus, these girls all have children of their own now and are maybe processing what they would have done if it happened to their child.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

I can’t understand why the attorneys didn’t council the Duggars on taking the plea deal.

I wonder if court started late today because the attorneys decide to ask for a plea deal and gotten told: a day late and a dollar short.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

I can’t understand why the attorneys didn’t council the Duggars on taking the plea deal.

I wonder if court started late today because the attorneys decide to ask for a plea deal and gotten told: a day late and a dollar short.

Deals have been off the table for a long time.  He could change his plea to guilty, but there will be no deal.

I have no doubt his lawyers strongly advised him to plea but in the end it's his call.

[Dandruff]

18 minutes ago, ToriAmos said:

What do you think Josh Duggar thinks about, while sitting through all this evidence?

I'd guess it's along the lines of: "Is this going the way it's supposed to?  I want a turn.  Should I ask again about a turn?  I was just looking and I didn't make those videos.  Nobody can say I made those videos.  The car lot was really boring.  I don't want to go to jail.  I'm hungry."

[Mama Mia]

People reporting on Jessa being at court didn’t include any details or photos. I think they just grabbed that info from the Sun or whoever. It would be pretty weird for Jessa to come in for alone for a couple hours, no Ben, and leave, with no photos. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I'd guess it's along the lines of: "Is this going the way it's supposed to?  I want a turn.  Should I ask again about a turn?  I was just looking and I didn't make those videos.  Nobody can say I made those videos.  The car lot was really boring.  I don't want to go to jail.  I'm hungry."

If I had to guess in addition to the concern that maybe he won't skate this time there is some pleasure.

I do think he's a sadist and I think despite that he knows he has other things to think about besides his penis he is enjoying the fuck out of retraumatizing his victims, forcing innocent jury members to view things that will haunt them forever, and making Anna listen to all the things he wanted sexually besides her, also enjoyed how he knows she's be upset with the whole previous betrothal thing.

These people don't think or feel the way we do, so Idk how much fear he has.  The fact that there is no shame should alarm Anna but she can't see it.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

37 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I think he's learning from his mistakes 

That is scary. I don’t want him to learn from his mistakes if it means he’s better equipped to hurt someone else in the future.

[SoSoNosy]

I completely skipped the whole last thread,. because I wanted to catch up a little bit first.  When the thread-before-last ended, there were questions about whether or not Bobye Holt testified; our local news station said she was the last one of the day.

And throwing this out there,  I am almost sure my MacBook Pro came with Boot Camp preinstalled (I moved it off the table where it was charging at Thanksgiving, and keep forgetting to plug it back in).  I have never checked because I wouldn't use it if it was there;  I have been an Apple/Mac person since home computers came to be.

 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

18 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I'd guess it's along the lines of: "Is this going the way it's supposed to?  I want a turn.  Should I ask again about a turn?  I was just looking and I didn't make those videos.  Nobody can say I made those videos.  The car lot was really boring.  I don't want to go to jail.  I'm hungry."

“Did my lawyers just talk about McDonalds? I want a Big Mac.”

No shade; I legit had the same thought, ran out, and got a Big Mac.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Father Son Holy Goat

[Gobsmacked]

52 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

I think it is funny the mom (who owns the company) is not testifying.  Given how high profile this case is you would think she wants the publicity to bring in business OR she wants to be as far removed as possible?  Take your pick. 

https://www.loehrsforensics.com.

See the about us/team page.  

It’s the No 1 ladies detective agency (computer division) me thinks  

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

41 minutes ago, gustava said:

M I C H E L E  B U S H

CCFE, CMFE, CCE, CCPA

My dyslexic brain put a COVFEFE in that mix.

Probably just as meaningful as the rest of her letters.

[Dysfundamental]

5 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

It’s the No 1 ladies detective agency (computer division) me thinks  

The mom seems to have reasonable experience and qualifications, but the daughter’s qualifications and experience seem scant. 

[SassyPants]

What does Josh think about in court?

Probably the same thing he thinks about in church.

 

[Tatar-tot]

44 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

I can’t understand why the attorneys didn’t council the Duggars on taking the plea deal.

I wonder if court started late today because the attorneys decide to ask for a plea deal and gotten told: a day late and a dollar short.

I cannot imagine they didn’t counsel them but JB & Josh’s ego got in the way. 

[gustava]

26 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

It’s the No 1 ladies detective agency (computer division) me thinks  

No dissing the No 1 Ladies Detective Agency!!!

 

[Tatar-tot]

9 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

What does Josh think about in court?

Probably the same thing he thinks about in church.

 

Porn

[Beermeet]

29 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

That is scary. I don’t want him to learn from his mistakes if it means he’s better equipped to hurt someone else in the future.

Agree.  Any show or article I have read on the subject says that's what they do, hone their skills.  They like being in jail together for this reason and to brag, share.  They being pedophiles and serial killers and rapists.  

[daisyjane1234]

I will be very interested to see how the defence cross examines the computer "expert".  As noted, their expert's qualifications seem scant and she is clearly trying to confuse the jury.  In my opinion she is a hired mouthpiece.   There are lists of "experts" who are known for providing evidence that is sympathetic to either the defence, or the prosecution, and are hired to do so.  She is clearly the former, and the judge will know this.  It is the prosecution's job to shred her, her expertise, and her analysis. 
 

Edited December 7, 2021 by daisyjane1234

[Dominionatrix]

2 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

People magazine's update is here. https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-trial-jessa-duggar-attends-judge-denies-defenses-motion-to-acquit/

…
My favorite quote from the article after Josh's attorney tried to get the case dismissed "...Judge Timothy L. Brooks sided with the prosecution and said he found there was "well more than sufficient evidence." The judge agreed the evidence presented by the prosecution satisfied the conditions to move forward and stated that there was "a plethora of evidence here to suggest a reasonable jury from which they could find there was possession." " bolding is mine.

I’m really glad that People chose to publish this as a major focus of an article. Perhaps some of their staff are feeling guilty for giving the Duggars a platform for so long. 

[hoipolloi]

5 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

I cannot imagine they didn’t counsel them but JB & Josh’s ego got in the way. 

That's my guess.

Josh could appeal if he's convicted & hope for an outcome like Bill Cosby's, but that doesn't seem very likely.

Judging from what's appeared in the media & elsewhere, the prosecution's case seems very solid, and they were careful to observe all procedures in gathering evidence. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

22 minutes ago, Dysfundamental said:

The mom seems to have reasonable experience and qualifications, but the daughter’s qualifications and experience seem scant. 

It's not a bad case to cut her teeth on.  Everyone is new at their job at the beginning, better to get your practice in when the stakes couldn't be lower.  They have nothing to lose since this is unwinnable so it's not a black mark against the firm and nothing will be decided based on her testimony.

[PinkGreyBrown]

Predators such as Josh Duggar are generally stimulation seeking, & as such the violence of prison is more of a reward than a deterrent. Violence & conflict in prison gives them something to do other than contemplate why they're there. Either they're the aggressors, which is its own thrill, or they're the victim, in which case it feeds into their persecution complexes. Also the drama of living ones own personal soap opera is a thing.

Personally, I want them bored. Stultified, with nothing to do other than restitution, contemplation, education, or therapy. I'm mean in that specific way.