(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 38: Can't Believe I'm Typing This, but YAY Bobye Holt

[Alisamer]

13 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

If the evidence is as damning as it has been reported, I for one am intrigued as to what the defence's case actually is. Because how do you defend the indefensible? Career suicide, really.

If they get him acquitted on this it'll be the opposite of career suicide. That'd be a huge success for his attorneys. 

Frankly coming up with any defense at all is a good job done, for something this obvious. Everybody deserves a defense, even when they're guilty. Sometimes the defense attorney's job is just to keep their client alive, TBH. 

2 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

I wonder if they did that just for the trial? They mentioned a lot of new requests recently and they might just have closed it for now, for the sake of their mods.

Either that or facebook is just having a day. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

3 minutes ago, Melbelle said:

Definitely not career suicide.  In the US every defendant has a right to a competent, preferably vigorous defense.  The accused is considered innocent until the prosecution successfully proves them guilty.  We all believe (frankly, we all know in our bones) that Josh is guilty, but it must be proven in a court of law.  These types of lawyers, those that defend the indefensible, are a big deal, they definitely don't win all their cases, but this will not keep them from having successful and very lucrative careers.  And they will win sometimes, sometimes because the person truly is innocent, and sometimes because they'll find that one loophole that gets their client off, even when they know their client is guilty as can be.  How much it kills their soul is a whole other story though...

I think that is probably what I meant (your last line), because I just couldnt stand up to defend someone like that

[Ilovebrownies]

So probably only members can invite new members.

[Mama Mia]

35 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

It just gets worse and worse...I am not sure how the defence can proceed if it is true about the number of access times and identifying details. Its a slam dunk. I feel sick. 

Unpopular view point, but I feel for Anna right now. There is no way she knew the full extent of this. 

Or she’s like Ghislane Maxwell, or any of the other extremely disturbed and creepy monster women who aid and abet the pedophiles and rapists by luring children or giving up their own (that is NOT meant as speculation about anything other than the viewing of CSAM we’ve been discussing) . She could be a monster too. 

[Cheetah]

5 minutes ago, HermioneSparrow said:

The person is also saying everyone that was yesterday it's there today (Hilary, Joy, Claire and everyone else).

She actually says that everyone that was there yesterday is there today except Hillary, Claire, and Joy.  So Justin, Derrick, Austin, and Uncle Eric (?)/ Santa are there again.

[imokit]

The sun has just updated with pics of Josh and Anna going in this morning.  They still clearly have people there.

 

They've also update with pics of Joy.  She looks amazing and strong.  Austin is there too, but there's enough space between them for them to be photo'd apart.  Good on her and Austin for going!

Edited December 3, 2021 by imokit

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Holy smokes those fundie wonderland updates 😳😭

they are saying josh was regularly habitually abusing his sisters over a three year period and two sisters fought him off at one point.

If this is true, JB and M really should shoulder significant blame here. What the actual EFF. How do you not move outside your circle to seek help when you see behaviors continuing and escalating? How is this not neglect, which is a form of child abuse? 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, imokit said:

The sun has just updated with pics of Josh and Anna going in this morning.  They still clearly have people there.

Is Anna in black? 

[Alisamer]

1 minute ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I think that is probably what I meant (your last line), because I just couldnt stand up to defend someone like that

I imagine for most defense attorneys, it's a calling, and they are doing their best to help their client get the best result they can.

I imagine for some, it's a great job for those people who really love playing "Devil's advocate" and making people upset and angry, and who will celebrate a win no matter how hollow a win it is. I'd rather have a psychopath become a defense attorney than a serial killer, I suppose.

I think most of them just are doing their best, and probably struggle when they know their client is guilty. It's a duty and responsibility to represent their clients, guilty or not, but it's got to wear on them. 

Good for them, I guess. I don't think I could do it.

[HermioneSparrow]

1 minute ago, Cheetah said:

She actually says that everyone that was there yesterday is there today except Hillary, Claire, and Joy.  So Justin, Derrick, Austin, and Uncle Eric (?)/ Santa are there again.

Sorry, I did not read well that one haha. Thanks for the clarification!

[FleeJanaFree]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

If this is true, JB and M really should shoulder significant blame here. What the actual EFF. How do you not move outside your circle to seek help when you see behaviors continuing and escalating? How is this not neglect, which is a form of child abuse? 

How can JB pretend to not remember this? Fry this guy.

[imokit]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

Is Anna in black? 

Black sweater with grey skirt/dress under.

 

[Cheetah]

More from the Fundie Wonderland person - Bobye is currently testifying and said that she and her husband advised the Duggars to buy a bigger home (back when they were in the old house) because they were having trouble keeping Josh away from his sisters. 

[SassyPants]

And how do you have the gall to sell your wholesome family and life for public consumption knowing this is in your family’s history?  Josh has learned from the best. He , his father , Gothard  all think that they are above it. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by SassyPants

[Cassia]

Justin was only 1 year old when the Duggar’s first tv special aired. He has spent 18 out of 19 years of his life being told to smile for the cameras that are pointed in his face… I don’t think it was appropriate but he probably wasn’t even thinking. I'd bet it's just instinctive at this point.

[Melbelle]

8 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Holy smokes those fundie wonderland updates 😳😭

they are saying josh was regularly habitually abusing his sisters over a three year period and two sisters fought him off at one point.

Do they say who is making this statement?  Is this a witness testifying, is so, which one?  Is the jury in the room or is this some sort of general conversation that happening before court officially starts?  

[libgirl2]

Just now, Cheetah said:

More from the Fundie Wonderland person - Bobye is currently testifying and said that she and her husband advised the Duggars to buy a bigger home (back when they were in the old house) because they were having trouble keeping Josh away from his sisters. 

that was the solution? And they knew he repeatedly was going after them and let it continue? 

[SassyPants]

The Holts should have told the Duggars to stop having kids.

Duggars old home= bulldozed

Jeffrey Epstein’s old house= bulldozed

Edited December 3, 2021 by SassyPants

[Cheetah]

Serious question on the issue of whether or not Anna is medicated to get through this...  clue me in on what sort of medication would be used please?  I don't know what would blunt the affect without putting her to sleep... eg, my husband occasionally takes Ativan for anxiety but there's no way he could then remain awake in court for a long day.   I think Xanax is similar, but don't know that for sure.  Thx. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, Sister Mozz said:

 

Mods, please remove if not allowed. 

It's allowed.  Just a reminder to those who may be joining:  Don't content from private sites or groups as in screen shots or direct quotes, but paraphrasing is fine.

Edited December 3, 2021 by nelliebelle1197
Link removed

[FleeJanaFree]

I believe it’s Mrs holt giving testimony about the abuse. Fundie wonderland is also reporting a dramatic mood shift in the court room. People that were stoic are now shocked and angry

[Antimony]

4 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I imagine for most defense attorneys, it's a calling, and they are doing their best to help their client get the best result they can.

I imagine for some, it's a great job for those people who really love playing "Devil's advocate" and making people upset and angry, and who will celebrate a win no matter how hollow a win it is. I'd rather have a psychopath become a defense attorney than a serial killer, I suppose.

I think most of them just are doing their best, and probably struggle when they know their client is guilty. It's a duty and responsibility to represent their clients, guilty or not, but it's got to wear on them. 

Good for them, I guess. I don't think I could do it.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what the actual heck? Josh's case is one thing but by far but not everybody accused of a crime is guilty of it. Many defense attorneys are out there to help their communities, especially communities that are overpoliced. Prosecution, however, has tight relationships with police and will regularly engage in prosecutorial misconduct. 

I cannot recommend Usual Cruelty: The Complicity of Lawyers in the Criminal Injustice System from Alec Karakatsanis enough.

There are plenty of cases, more famous than the Duggars, where we know that the prosecution was acting unethically and defense attorneys were in the right. Serial comes to mind immediately. And the man Alice Sebold wrongly accused, who spent sixteen years in prison for what he didn't do. 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

The Holts should have told the Duggars to stop having kids.

Duggars old home= bulldozed

Jeffrey Epstein’s old house= bulldozed

and the kids they had should have been taken from them for allowing this to go on.

[Ilovebrownies]

3 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

More from the Fundie Wonderland person - Bobye is currently testifying and said that she and her husband advised the Duggars to buy a bigger home (back when they were in the old house) because they were having trouble keeping Josh away from his sisters. 

This is absolutely disgusting.  This is why they only had the kids in 2 bedrooms in the big house.

[Cheetah]

3 minutes ago, Melbelle said:

Do they say who is making this statement?  Is this a witness testifying, is so, which one?  Is the jury in the room or is this some sort of general conversation that happening before court officially starts?  

One of the Holts, probably Bobye but it wasn't specified.