(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 38: Can't Believe I'm Typing This, but YAY Bobye Holt

[Alisamer]

58 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

They are trash, yes, and the opinion stuff about who is sitting next to who and what that means in nonsense but they do have a reporter in the room and the actual facts about testimony are correct.  

Yes. The Sun has a reporter attending the trial. Did you know they have a reporter attending the trial? They do! They have a reporter in the courtroom! Attending the trial!

And they mention it in almost every post about it.

I stumbled across a video from someone named Backwoods Barbi on youtube who was reading through a lot of the posts from The Sun, and it was hilarious, finally she just said "yeah we get it" and quit reading the "according to a Sun reporter attending the trial" part. 

Also - Backwoods Barbi, if you are here - that video was hilarious and awesome so thank you.

1 minute ago, pupper said:

Speaking of the tiny trailer, do you think the officers sprayed luminol all over it? 🤮

Luminol is for blood. All they'd need is a blacklight for what you're implying. 

(On a practical note, a blacklight flashlight is useful for tracking down mystery pet pee smells...)

Edited December 3, 2021 by Alisamer

[Bassett Lady]

8 minutes ago, pupper said:

Speaking of the tiny trailer, do you think the officers sprayed luminol all over it? 🤮

I think you mean UV light. Luminol is for detecting blood. UV light illuminates other body secretions. 
 

Edited to add that Alisamer already explained the proper light source for discovering those particular body fluids. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Bassett Lady

[pupper]

22 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Yes. The Sun has a reporter attending the trial. Did you know they have a reporter attending the trial? They do! They have a reporter in the courtroom! Attending the trial!

And they mention it in almost every post about it.

I stumbled across a video from someone named Backwoods Barbi on youtube who was reading through a lot of the posts from The Sun, and it was hilarious, finally she just said "yeah we get it" and quit reading the "according to a Sun reporter attending the trial" part. 

Also - Backwoods Barbi, if you are here - that video was hilarious and awesome so thank you.

Luminol is for blood. All they'd need is a blacklight for what you're implying. 

(On a practical note, a blacklight flashlight is useful for tracking down mystery pet pee smells...)

Thank you for the correction. I have watched plenty of Dateline and Forensic File but clearly do not pay close enough attention. I apologize for making this comment in the first place. Now that I reread it, I see how gross it is. Sorry.

[Antimony]

15 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Luminol is for blood. All they'd need is a blacklight for what you're implying. 

(On a practical note, a blacklight flashlight is useful for tracking down mystery pet pee smells...)

Luminol is semi-problematic for crime scene investigation. It will react with urine and feces because most of these reagents aren't that specific. If there's bleach or copper or iron or hydrogen peroxide around, luminol will find it. You need some secondary tests to confirm.

A year back I started watching CSI (LV) in order and time-stamping every use of chemical techniques to use for examples in my student's class, which then led to a folder full of these analyses and then picking up a copy of Forensics Under Fire: Are Bad Science and Dueling Experts Corrupting Criminal Justice? and I have a folder for an unfinished course design for a class called "Critical Eyes on Forensic Science. 

Wikipedia, on the Kastle-Meyer test (luminol alternative), lays the issue with this color-based tests out very nicely;

Quote

Color catalytic tests are very sensitive, but not specific. The positive color test alone should not be interpreted as positive proof of blood. A negative result is generally proof of the absence of detectable quantities of heme, however a false negative can be generated in the presence of a reducing agent. The test is unable to give specific evidence as to what is in the blood.

I should probably step off this soapbox though. In general, I get in a tizzy because forensic science has a lower quality control than academic science and part of this is due to the nature of the work --- limited samples, designing controls is hard, etc -- but you can also argue that it should have at least an equal standard because my work matters for like...three people who want to read one boring article...and forensic science impacts people's lives in a serious way. Anyway, this would-be class would cover both the issues with forensics and the problems in how they are represented in television, etc. An example of my notes is in a spoiler;

Spoiler

Episode: S1E4 Pledging Mr. Johnson
Time Stamps: 09:43 - 9:50
Topics: Grissom and Catherine come in to check a DNA profile. The resident chemist shows them what looks like a DNA gel scan. “Thirteen markers and not one of them matches the husbands types”. This would be an assay worth pausing on for discussions, since they show the whole image of the gel.

As far as Anna stone-faced, I know I've beaten this dead-horse re: emotional expression but it's fascinating in contrast to the Anna and other Duggar tendency to weep for theoretical abortions that they know nothing about. It really shows that those pro-life tears are crocodilian. If she truly wept every time she learned of an abortion, she wouldn't be stone-faced in court.  

[Cults-r-us]

3 hours ago, Smee said:

 

But on the other hand. The Ms NEED better. Even if it’s not “her fault” she can’t be a good mother to them, the fact remains that she isn’t. And they are innocent children who are paying the highest price for her blind spots and mistakes and abuse.

People on the inside of a situation do not know or see what is known or seen by people on the outside looking in. So who knows what information Anna receives from the Smugger and family? And how what she learns is interpreted against the background of toxic belief. Who knows what advice she is getting from her parents. She may honestly believe he is innocent. I suspect her judgement may have been poisoned by the kiss of blind ambition she experienced in becoming a Duggar/fundie royalty.

[Sister Mozz]

FYI, the thread in Fundie Wonderland is very thorough in their updates so far today, and the new testimony is sickening and damning. The forensic analysis of the partition shows hundreds of openings to each of the files, as well as document files containing literal step-by-step instruction for finding and accessing CP. Horrific. Even if someone is trying to believe the libs have planted the original files, there's no way anyone but Josh has physically accessed these over and over. It's so awful. 

[Chickenbutt]

@Sister MozzCan you link Fundie Wonderland please (if it's okay)

[G33kywife]

Just now, Chickenbutt said:

@Sister MozzCan you link Fundie Wonderland please (if it's okay)

It’s a private Facebook group. If you just search that name on Facebook it should pop up. Request to join (make sure to answer the questions) and you’ll be good to go. 

[twoandthrough]

Amy is here for it!

[srlm]

1 minute ago, twoandthrough said:

Amy is here for it!

No one here responded what I was thinking. "What the actual fuck?" 

 

I also want want to thank everyone for all of the content warnings. I am glad to be able to not know more. 

 

[Lovebug]

19 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

FYI, the thread in Fundie Wonderland is very thorough in their updates so far today, and the new testimony is sickening and damning. The forensic analysis of the partition shows hundreds of openings to each of the files, as well as document files containing literal step-by-step instruction for finding and accessing CP. Horrific. Even if someone is trying to believe the libs have planted the original files, there's no way anyone but Josh has physically accessed these over and over. It's so awful. 

I was sick when I read that… Apparently Anna was too, as it seems she’s listened to most of the testimony staring at her lap and feet.

I was happy the Judge allowed the request for more frequent breaks so the Jurors could attend to their mental well-being. I also found their ask to review the thumbnails again interesting. Apparently they couldn’t believe he would download a self identifying document (name, address, phone) on the same side of the partition with the CSAM. They wanted to make sure they received the evidence correctly.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lovebug

[Queen Of Hearts]

8 minutes ago, G33kywife said:

It’s a private Facebook group. If you just search that name on Facebook it should pop up. Request to join (make sure to answer the questions) and you’ll be good to go. 

I can not find such a group. Can you give a link?

[Antimony]

2 minutes ago, G33kywife said:

It’s a private Facebook group. If you just search that name on Facebook it should pop up. Request to join (make sure to answer the questions) and you’ll be good to go. 

I'm in there and I didn't know it would be a good source but to paraphrase and also Ummm bruh wtf JOsh dude what are you doing even dude my guy (no graphic descriptions in here, just me editorializing this new-to-me info)

You know how like, if you're an organized person, your desktop has a bunch of folder icons and such? Well, not true for me, my desktop is a mess so it has thumbnails of file and stuff I've opened to saved to desktop etc. This guy Josh also doesn't organize his files and left all the files for his CSAM on the desktop, thumbnails and all. Josh couldn't be assed to make a folder called "FEDS DONT OPEN" and move all the files into it -- no. I'm not sure why I'm so hung up on this but it's so weird because it implies that when he opened the Linux side, that was the first thing he saw which means like...I don't think the other employees were listing cars on Tor. 

Anyway, said files were opened hundreds of times. There have been reports everywhere there yesterday's court included a lot of spreadsheets, which likely include based on context, the times at which these files had been accessed, which could be interesting because it's not just about the receipt but the possession of the CSAM so the lack of employees through May is further evidence against Josh if those spreadsheets of time logs are what I think they are. 

(I use my desktop as a catch-all. Things I use all the time are actually filed properly on a Dropbox thing. If I make a stupid meme for FJ, though, I would save it on the desktop for example).

[theotherelise]

I always appreciate when jurors clearly take their duty seriously and do their best to follow their instructions and review the evidence. It's the same kind of feeling I get when in traffic and an ambulance siren goes off and we all work together to clear a lane for the emergency vehicle. One small bright spot of society functioning for the good of the whole and not self-interest.

[Antimony]

The general goss (Amy, people milling around the court) suggests that today's witnesses are Bobye, Jill, maybe Jed. 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Antimony said:

The general goss (Amy, people milling around the court) suggests that today's witnesses are Bobye, Jill, maybe Jed. 

So Amy is there? 

[Antimony]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

So Amy is there? 

Amy tweeted about praying for the Holt family etc.

Other people who seem to be there (or, for the clicks on their threads wish to appear to be there) are also suggesting that this is the schedule for today.

I am not sure if Amy is physically there or not. I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up on Jill and Bobye's testimony days. 

[Mama Mia]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thank you!  I do not understand why anyone thinks it's a possibility she's being called by the defense, it defies logic.

My reasoning wasn’t that they would call Jill to completely refute the claims, as it’s already been established, but to water them down to what Jill personally experienced and/or remembered experiencing, which was considerably less invasive than what Mrs Holt divulged. Trying to discredit Mrs. Holts account. And to try to go back to the much more sanitized version JB presented, with the girl with the least age gap. 
I don’t think that’s the case, though, I think Jill is testifying for the prosecution. 
 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Mama Mia

[3KidsAndStopped]

It just gets worse and worse...I am not sure how the defence can proceed if it is true about the number of access times and identifying details. Its a slam dunk. I feel sick. 

Unpopular view point, but I feel for Anna right now. There is no way she knew the full extent of this. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

I just read fundie wonderland's latest post.

If Justin comes out grinning after today's testimony, there's no question he's a sociopath. Full stop. 

I know Justin isn't at home, but seriously Anna, get the fuck away from these people. You also have sons. Look at the men the Duggars have raised. 

[Mama Mia]

4 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Hmmm, so when I click on that it just goes to my FB feed. Does that mean that they have me banned?  I have never been a member of the group and although I follow a few fundies for snark research purposes I never comment.  Very weird.

Fwiw, I’ve been having that problem with using Facebook links today on completely unrelated topics. 

[danvillebelle]

4 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Its a slam dunk.

From your keyboard to the flying spaghetti monster's ears.

Please please please let this disgusting piece of trash go to jail for 40 years.  

[onekidanddone]

25 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

Amy is here for it!

I’m starting to really like Amy. She is all out of gives a fuck and not holding back. 

[SillyDillys]

I sent Mr. Dilly the info as we are both at work. He said "oh yeah. They got him no question."

I told him I wasn't sure. My first jury duty I was on a SA/murder of a 17 year old girl by her male classmate. Weak defense and testimony from the Girls parents and there was still two older juror who was hesitant to say guilty cause they didn't "want to ruin a young man's life." Took us 2 hours to convince them even with all of the obvious evidence. I'm just worried that defense is going to now try the "married with young kids" angle, and try to tug at some heart strings

Edited December 3, 2021 by SillyDillys
Forgot to add something

[punkiepie]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

(On a practical note, a blacklight flashlight is useful for tracking down mystery pet pee smells...)

Ohh, I clean the bathroom first and then shine the blacklight flashlight to see all of the areas of pee that I missed on my first pass. It’s amazing how much doesn’t land in the toilet. 
 

Also, it does show all bodily fluid emissions! So don’t use it in your teenager’s room if you aren’t prepared!