(Possible Child Sexual Abuse Content) Josh and Anna 34: Plea Deal in the Making?

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

Found this article by chance. 

https://popculture.com/reality-tv/news/josh-duggar-embarrassing-allegations-connected-child-pornography-charges/

Quick summary: 

Apparently, Josh was using the same password to download porn that he used for everything else, i.e. bank accounts, Instagram, etc. 

[nolongerIFBx]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:10 AM, Flossie said:

. . .

I think 99.9 percent of people will agree that having more kids at this time and in this situation is a colossally bad idea.  But if push comes to shove, if Anna wants more kids and JB thinks that it would be good for optics, Josh has an out.  He could go into a bathroom and put a few drops of water into the collection devise, add a drop of milk or some Milk of Magnesia in there and he's got no worries.  The lab would say the sample had no viable sperm.  Probably Satan taking his final revenge.

Not milk! That has actually been used as an extender in cryopreservation of semen. The water would work though!

[AussieKrissy]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9888419/Josh-Duggar-kept-trove-child-porn-work-computer-docs-claim.html

Daily fail is at it again another big post popped up on my screen 

[shesinsane]

16 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9888419/Josh-Duggar-kept-trove-child-porn-work-computer-docs-claim.html

Daily fail is at it again another big post popped up on my screen 

I know the Daily Fail is horrible, but I like how the article starts with Depraved Josh Duggar. Even a broken tabloid is right twice a day?

[ifosterkittens]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:28 PM, Howl said:

Curious if Josh's past history as a sexual abuser will be evidence in the trial or at sentencing or as part of a plea deal. 

I went back and rewatched some of Emily D Baker's coverage of Josh's detention hearing. Emily said the rules for a detention hearing (deciding if Josh would stay in jail until his trial or be allowed out with certain conditions) their standards of evidence are much lower, and what is discussed at the detention hearing may not be allowed to be discussed in trial. The judge said because he publicly admitted his acts against his sisters they were factored in. Josh's legal team said they are allegations because there was no conviction, and even if there had been a conviction while he was a juvenile it would have been sealed and wouldn't have been discussed as a prior conviction. Emily said if he had a prior conviction in CP/CSA as an adult that could have been mentioned at the detention hearing. 

If seems unlikely his past history would be admissible in a trial (well criminal trial, not sure about civil). I do not know if it would be discussed at sentencing I don't remember Emily covering that. The victims of his past crimes (four sisters and a fifth young woman) aren't part of these allegation, so I don't know if that plays a role. I also don't know if any of his victims would want to speak at sentencing (if they were allowed). Jill might be willing to given her relationship with her parents, but I doubt the other sisters would go against their dad, and I doubt Jim Bob would want them to speak to Josh's past crimes. 

I hope Josh takes a plea deal and does substantial jail time. I can't imagine being a potential juror and having to listen to the explicit nature of the CSA material/images. How would that not haunt you for the rest of your life? I understand there is a presumption of innocence, but from what Emily said there doesn't seem to be any doubt he is the guy who accessed this material.  

[TuringMachine]

Can one of our more law savvy people tell me how concerned I should be about all this?

https://lawandcrime.com/celebrity/josh-duggar-tries-to-dismiss-child-porn-charges-on-grounds-that-trumps-homeland-security-leaders-were-unlawfully-appointed/

[feministxtian]

I smell desperation. His lawyer will file whatever motions he can..each one is billable hours. Milk the yahoo for all he's got. 

[anjulibai]

Doesn't count because their beloved president did something wrong.

Is it me, is this irony?

[church_of_dog]

10 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Doesn't count because their beloved president did something wrong.

Is it me, is this irony?

Anna was quoted earlier as saying Josh's situation was all Biden's fault because the election was stolen and Josh wouldn't have been arrested if Trump had won.  (smdh)

Maybe when it became clear that argument wouldn't go anywhere, they decided to (pretend to) switch sides... (smdh again)

[Anna Bolinas]

Just now, church_of_dog said:

Anna was quoted earlier as saying Josh's situation was all Biden's fault because the election was stolen and Josh wouldn't have been arrested if Trump had won.  (smdh)

 

That was a rumor. It was in the tabloids that unnamed sources said that Anna said it was Biden's fault. It's possible Anna does believe that, but there's no verified source. And some people on r/duggarssnark think that the tabloids picked it up from one of their reddit threads, because a few users joked that the Duggars might blame it on Biden persecuting Christians. 

[Mama Mia]

2 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

Can one of our more law savvy people tell me how concerned I should be about all this?

https://lawandcrime.com/celebrity/josh-duggar-tries-to-dismiss-child-porn-charges-on-grounds-that-trumps-homeland-security-leaders-were-unlawfully-appointed/

The weirdest thing in there is the motion filed to suppress photos taken of Josh’s hands and feet while in custody. wTF ???

[bal maiden]

I am deathly curious about the photos of hands and feet thing!

[baldricks_turnip]

3 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I am deathly curious about the photos of hands and feet thing!

Speculation over on reddit is that maybe they were for comparison to glimpses of perpetrators in CSAM.

[FiveAcres]

3 minutes ago, baldricks_turnip said:

Speculation over on reddit is that maybe they were for comparison to glimpses of perpetrators in CSAM.

That was where my mind went. Unfortunately.

[bal maiden]

Now not deathly curious; now just feel nauseated. 

[AussieKrissy]

Hands and feet photos sounds like they are comparing footage they have to him. Oh Anna if that don’t make you run ain’t nobody got time for you. All compassion will be gone. 
edit to add suppressing it just makes him sound more guilty. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by AussieKrissy

[Antimony]

The hand and feet photos the court does have have been released, since the Defense shows them in the document to dismiss them, which has now been linked to on the Reddit. 

At first, I also figured it was a clue that the prosecution was trying to match his hands to those in images but the pictures taken of his hands are...very strange. The feet are incidental. The photo is his hands placed on a desk, taken from above, such that you can see his feet, in shoes, standing on the floor. Some of the crops only show thumbs. It's a weird angle and crop for any evidentiary photo and his sleeves are still up to his wrist (which wouldn't help in some areas of image analysis, because they use vein pattern matching). As far as I can tell, he has no identifying marks on his hands that are visible in the photos, so it also isn't a traditional intake "identifying marks" photo. The Defense is claiming the photos are not evidentiary, but I mean, it is his Defense so in my mind that might not really be true. 

The other thing that comes to my mind as somebody who does do image analysis (for very, very, very different things) is that there are certain things missing from these photos that you would want for image analysis. Namely, a scale bar or something to set normalized size to. (Hand measurements are pretty unique from person to person, but it is best practice to have an internal scale reference in any image.) Also, the angle of the image is problematic for this. I wouldn't have a background this messy in shots about a petri dish, so it's hard for me to image that somebody would have a background that messy in an evidence photo for image analysis and presentation to a court. Somebody on the Reddit said it seemed they just wanted photos of his thumbs and everything else was incidental, which may be true. It's very bizarre.  

[AussieKrissy]

7 hours ago, Antimony said:

The hand and feet photos the court does have have been released, since the Defense shows them in the document to dismiss them, which has now been linked to on the Reddit. 

At first, I also figured it was a clue that the prosecution was trying to match his hands to those in images but the pictures taken of his hands are...very strange. The feet are incidental. The photo is his hands placed on a desk, taken from above, such that you can see his feet, in shoes, standing on the floor. Some of the crops only show thumbs. It's a weird angle and crop for any evidentiary photo and his sleeves are still up to his wrist (which wouldn't help in some areas of image analysis, because they use vein pattern matching). As far as I can tell, he has no identifying marks on his hands that are visible in the photos, so it also isn't a traditional intake "identifying marks" photo. The Defense is claiming the photos are not evidentiary, but I mean, it is his Defense so in my mind that might not really be true. 

The other thing that comes to my mind as somebody who does do image analysis (for very, very, very different things) is that there are certain things missing from these photos that you would want for image analysis. Namely, a scale bar or something to set normalized size to. (Hand measurements are pretty unique from person to person, but it is best practice to have an internal scale reference in any image.) Also, the angle of the image is problematic for this. I wouldn't have a background this messy in shots about a petri dish, so it's hard for me to image that somebody would have a background that messy in an evidence photo for image analysis and presentation to a court. Somebody on the Reddit said it seemed they just wanted photos of his thumbs and everything else was incidental, which may be true. It's very bizarre.  

a little vomit came into my mouth when I read about the scale, which I agree they would/may need for comparison to film. But what if this was just for a victim to use to identify..... Oh the babes of the world, my heart breaks for you..... fucking josh fucking Afghanistan poor Haiti the world is fucked man!

[Chickenbutt]

The first thing that came to my mind after seeing the pics of Josh's hands and feet, was the placement of Josh's hands and feet while standing at a keyboard as seen from above. Can't wrap my head around why that would be important. Maybe fingerprints on keyboard keys? I certainly don't know. 

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

a little vomit came into my mouth when I read about the scale, which I agree they would/may need for comparison to film. But what if this was just for a victim to use to identify..... Oh the babes of the world, my heart breaks for you..... fucking josh fucking Afghanistan poor Haiti the world is fucked man!

Yea, I mean, it's dark -- maybe I'm able to turn off too much of my brain but they're just baffling photos for any legal purpose. It really shocked me that these photos were taken in such a way and they're being asked for suppression. Again, I do a very different kind of image analysis -- I look at petri dishes and scans of science experiments -- but these just struck me as bad for analysis.

For reference, under spoiler (it's just a hand, but still), here's what one such hand reference photo in a database. You can see that there's an internal scale and marking points to make references to. (At least, Wired claims this is a database photo and it makes sense to me in terms of in-image references and positioning.)

Spoiler

It's also true that HSI got these weird bad photos of Josh's hands without a warrant so my speculation brain has been going. It seems to me unlikely that they want to show these to possible victims but are withholding those charges -- the existence of hidden charges would have mattered for the bond hearing, so that doesn't seem likely.

a) HSI wanted these photos and could get bad ones without issuing a warrant. If Josh agreed to take these, that's on him in some ways. As in, a cop doesn't need permission to search your car if you say it's okay. (Now, how much intimidation plays a factor is still an issue). Perhaps they thought they could get bad photos without tipping him off but asking a suspect to take a photo next to the ruler and special hand-photo-taking area. Maybe they want preliminary evidence that would lead to the issue of a proper warrant for photographs? (But again, why keep that a secret from the bond hearing, which involves the question of his children's visitations?)

b) On site, Josh was complaining of some sort of mistreatment or man-handling on part of the booking officers and these photos are exculpatory for the HSI staff themselves, as in proof that he didn't break his pinky or whatever. This seems unlikely, because why suppress it? 

c) The intaking officer is just really bad at their job of photos??

Folks on the Reddit have brought up what I find to be a very good point -- why draw attention to this at this stage by asking for suppression? Josh's public reputation can't get much worse, but suppressing these has only brought them to the public's attention and everybody had come up with the most obvious conclusion of what these photos might be for. I'm super baffled and the legal beagles over on the Reddit seem to be as well. 

The whole Appointments Clause attempt also is baffling, but much more outside my wheelhouse. 

[AussieKrissy]

has anyone got a link to or could screen shot the hand photos at all please?

[Antimony]

2 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

has anyone got a link to or could screen shot the hand photos at all please?

Under spoiler. Again, just hands but you know...gross hands in gross context.

Spoiler

 

[AussieKrissy]

1 minute ago, Antimony said:

Under spoiler. Again, just hands but you know...gross hands in gross context.

  Hide contents

 

They look like photos taken to prove no injuries. In gaol after a punch up inmates have to walk past us hands out like that to show who was involved. Shitty photos but maybe that's all they needed because it is evident there is no injury. 

[Antimony]

2 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

They look like photos taken to prove no injuries. In gaol after a punch up inmates have to walk past us hands out like that to show who was involved. Shitty photos but maybe that's all they needed because it is evident there is no injury. 

I'll confess I had to look up 'gaol'. Although I've started consuming a lot more UK and NZ content (thanks, Taskmaster!), I'm not up on all my vocabulary (I've learned so much!). This makes sense to me, but it's still a baffling choice to suppress them unless the Defense knows something the Prosecution doesn't, or they're just racking up those sweet sweet billable hours on Jim Bob's account. 

[BensAllergies]

The far right photo looks like he has deep grooves in between the veins. I can get a similar look if I press my hands down and apply pressure to a surface.

And yet I see shadows which make it appear that he is not pressing down on a surface at all but instead holding them in the air. I’m not sure what to think.

Edited August 23, 2021 by BensAllergies
Second thoughts in looking at the photos again