(Possible Child Sexual Abuse Content) Josh and Anna 34: Plea Deal in the Making?

[SassyPants]

On the Sun’s report…some of the kids did visit their cousins, and perhaps Anna did stay with Josh while the kids were away, further, maybe Jana or the big house watched the kids who did not travel.  And there you have how the story could have been conceived. 

[CrazyCatLady]

Haven't listened to this yet but the Behind the Bastards podcast has a two parter on Josh.

[monkeyrocks71]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:02 PM, Bethy said:

That's got to be hard. I'm sure the younger Duggars (of both generations) on the compound haven't been told details. But even if they say "Someone says that Daddy/Uncle Josh did some bad things so he has to go away for a while" they're risking having conversations where if the kids saw/heard anything (let's set aside accusations of  in-person inappropriateness toward any child in the family because I know that speculation is off-limits - let's just say one of the younger siblings happened to see something on the computer at the car lot while visiting and thought it was weird at the time but didn't say anything then) they're now identified as witnesses. And I'm sure JB, Michelle, Anna, and Josh would all prefer that not happen. I don't know whether one's own children can be compelled to testify against their father but even if they can't be, I would imagine siblings don't have the same protection if they're witnesses to criminal activity.

My heart breaks for Josh and Anna's oldest kids who have to remember Daddy "going away" after the molestation/Ashley Madison thing even if they had no concept of why. (Not to mention that 2015 would've been when they moved back to Arkansas from DC.) Now Daddy is gone again and they probably haven't been told the reason this time either. That lack of stability is so traumatic for kids.

I bet they double down when josh is convicted: “See what happens when Satan gets hold of you? That’s why you have to be submissive and godly and never do anything that could open the door for him”? 

Those kids will be lucky to ever leave the compound again.

Edited August 5, 2021 by monkeyrocks71

[Bethy]

23 minutes ago, monkeyrocks71 said:

I bet they double down when josh is convicted: “See what happens when Satan gets hold of you? That’s why you have to be submissive and godly and never do anything that could open the door for him”? 

Those kids will be lucky to ever leave the compound again.

Sadly, you're probably right. They'll conclude they weren't strict enough, if this happened with Josh, and they have to keep an even tighter leash on the remaining kids.

[Howl]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:11 AM, Smee said:

I don’t know what Anna’s situation is or whether Josh is as bad as Toby. But I do know that statistically, everyone on this board likely knows a woman who is silently living in fear of her partner, and holding them responsible for not leaving doesn’t do anything to change the behavior of men or the systems that enable them.

Please, anyone with an interest or experience of domestic abuse, or stuck in an abusive relationship -- read No Visible Bruises: What We Don't Know About Domestic Violence Can Kill Us

Lots of information on red flags for a woman in an abusive relationship -- and yes, choking is a huge red flag for future homicide.  

Also, the "Why don't you just leave?"  What about the woman's job, stability for children, schools, finding a new place to live with little to no financial stability? 

Re: Anna, Brenda -- I keep returning to the LDS adage for women:  Keep sweet, no matter what. 

[CrazyCatLady]

Another pod to try...

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Please, anyone with an interest or experience of domestic abuse, or stuck in an abusive relationship -- read No Visible Bruises: What We Don't Know About Domestic Violence Can Kill Us

Lots of information on red flags for a woman in an abusive relationship -- and yes, choking is a huge red flag for future homicide.

Does the book cover the abuse of men by domestic partners?  I realize that women, statistically, are on the receiving end more than men are but men are sometimes abused.  I suspect they're also less likely to report.

Back to Josh - what are his life goals at this point?  Does he have any, or is he simply focused on not going to prison?  Is anyone in the family, other than his parents, wife, and children willing to interact with him?

[Alisamer]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Also, the "Why don't you just leave?"  What about the woman's job, stability for children, schools, finding a new place to live with little to no financial stability? 

This is big, I think. "Just leave" might work for some people, but what's the point of leaving if he knows where you work, knows where the kids go to school, knows all the places you might go temporarily to get away, etc? A friend of mine once lived on my couch for a week when trying to get free of an abusive boyfriend. She had a restraining order, but even so he came to her work and grabbed her one day - she and another employee fought him off. He didn't know where my apartment was and I was within shouting distance of a police station, and we were still worried! Luckily they didn't have kids and weren't married, so there weren't those entanglements, but it's not as simple as "just leave" in most cases. 

[Snowless]

14 hours ago, CrazyCatLady said:

Haven't listened to this yet but the Behind the Bastards podcast has a two parter on Josh.

I just listened to both parts earlier today, and the host, Robert Evans, recommended another podcast that recently did a six-part series on the IBLP.  I haven’t listened to that series yet, but the podcast is called Some Place Under Neith, and is available on just about all podcast platforms.

There wasn’t much in the Behind the Bastards episodes that I didn’t already know about in relation to the Duggars, but Robert Evans has also hosted a few spin-offs, including Behind the Police and Behind the Insurrections, that are definitely worth listening to.

[CrazyCatLady]

I just listened to both parts earlier today, and the host, Robert Evans, recommended another podcast that recently did a six-part series on the IBLP.  I haven’t listened to that series yet, but the podcast is called Some Place Under Neith, and is available on just about all podcast platforms.
There wasn’t much in the Behind the Bastards episodes that I didn’t already know about in relation to the Duggars, but Robert Evans has also hosted a few spin-offs, including Behind the Police and Behind the Insurrections, that are definitely worth listening to.

The Some Place Under Neith series was really good. Highly recommended.

[HereComesTreble]

21 hours ago, Howl said:

Re: Anna, Brenda -- I keep returning to the LDS adage for women:  Keep sweet, no matter what. 

FYI, it’s an FLDS (Fundamentalist LDS) adage, not LDS (the “regular” Mormon church). I know it seems like a small distinction but they are 2 very different groups.

[Cults-r-us]

On 8/2/2021 at 10:24 PM, Bethy said:

I can't remember if this has come up here - do we know/suspect whether Josh and Anna are aware of Alan Smith's case? There's a perfect case of a fundie wife who did NOT "stand by her man" and is making it as a single mom of eight. 

True. As I recall, Katie was immediately surrounded and supported by her family (as opposed to Cap'n Smith who is probably still in denial). There is a difference in sexually assaulting a child and viewing child pornography (which is sick). Would Anna respond differently if her children had been molested? 

[Snowless]

@CrazyCatLady I’m listening to the first episode now.  I’d never heard of that podcast before its mention on Behind the Bastards, so this seems like a good intro to it.

[EmCatlyn]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:19 AM, Idlewild said:

….. I can see the children going to stay with family for a break but I doubt any family would take in 6 extra children on a semi permanent basis. I really hope this is another of the Sun’s lies as if it’s true it shows Anna putting her and Josh’s comfort before the children. There are plenty of people to watch the kids in Arkansas.….

Like you, I don’t believe most things The Sun publishes.  I just want to comment that if (God forbid) I were in Anna’s situation, I would probably send the older kids to visit family just to get them away from the tension and stress of having Daddy under house arrest in another house.

I doubt very much that Anna is spending nights at the Rebers.  She may stay overnight once in a while, but it seems unlikely she would just dump her kids somewhere so she can be with Josh 24/7.

Reports of tensions between her and Mrs Reber are entirely credible even if they are invented by the Sun 😉.   

Reports of her anger at JB and M, and her “blaming” them for Josh’s problems don’t seem credible.  If there is a quarrel there, it’s more likely to be about money. 

[Coconut Flan]

I think there could be trouble if Jim Bob promised to handle it or make it go away and then realized he couldn't.  Anna might feel justified in blaming him for not controlling Josh or not controlling the situation as he promised.

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, Coconut Flan said:

I think there could be trouble if Jim Bob promised to handle it or make it go away and then realized he couldn't.  Anna might feel justified in blaming him for not controlling Josh or not controlling the situation as he promised.

I know that YouTuber Emily Baker of Lawyer Reacts fame thinks that the eighteen months between the seizure of Josh's computer equipment and his arraignment for possession of CSA materials can be explained by how long forensic examination of the computers can take. However, I still wonder a bit if certain people in the Justice Department slow walked some things in the hope against hope that the next administration wouldn't be so incredibly corrupt. (This is very much my own trip on the ISB and I have seen no supporting evidence for it anywhere. The pandemic screwed up many things in other areas, and possibly did in computer forensic labs as well.) 

However, if the charges had been at the state level instead of federal level, Jim Bob might have had a shot at making them go away, or at least sending Josh off to another useless Christian facility for rehabilitation instead of serving hard time.  

[church_of_dog]

Daily Mail seems to think she is indeed staying there, and suggests Pris and David are watching the kids. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9869715/Josh-Duggars-wife-STAYING-house-arrest-ahead-child-porn-trial.html

[Sops2]

A few of the M kids were at  Fairpark Baptist church children's activity week at the same time Mr Keller was visiting and preaching.

They were there for at least a week, but probably didn't stay longer with Pris and David.The Pecan family are still staying in the 2 bedroom house rented from a church member. Their house in Big Sandy has not sold yet ( it is being bought by a pastor and his family, but they cannot as yet get an appraiser to visit it so the sale hasn't gone through)

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, church_of_dog said:

Daily Mail seems to think she is indeed staying there, and suggests Pris and David are watching the kids. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9869715/Josh-Duggars-wife-STAYING-house-arrest-ahead-child-porn-trial.html

The Daily Mail’s main (if not the only) source for the “Anna is staying at the Rebers and her family is caring for the kids” seems to be The Sun.

The article also cites Fox’s earlier reports that Anna won’t leave Josh and blames the Duggar parents.

It is all possible, but it seems the Mail is just repeating, not including other (different) information.

[Nikedagain?]

On 8/6/2021 at 12:09 AM, Snowless said:

I just listened to both parts earlier today, and the host, Robert Evans, recommended another podcast that recently did a six-part series on the IBLP.  I haven’t listened to that series yet, but the podcast is called Some Place Under Neith, and is available on just about all podcast platforms.

There wasn’t much in the Behind the Bastards episodes that I didn’t already know about in relation to the Duggars, but Robert Evans has also hosted a few spin-offs, including Behind the Police and Behind the Insurrections, that are definitely worth listening to.

He is great! My hands down favorite podcast! Listen to his take on Stalin! 

 

 

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I think there could be trouble if Jim Bob promised to handle it or make it go away and then realized he couldn't.  Anna might feel justified in blaming him for not controlling Josh or not controlling the situation as he promised.

I wonder if Jim Bob has realized he can’t make this go away or if he is still clinging to some delusion that his lawyers will win and he can get the reality tv money back? There doesn’t seem to be any sign of Josh taking a plea deal and I can’t even imagine what the attorney’s fees are. They have to be sinking a ton of money into trying to save Josh. 

[Howl]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:09 AM, HereComesTreble said:

FYI, it’s an FLDS (Fundamentalist LDS) adage, not LDS (the “regular” Mormon church). I know it seems like a small distinction but they are 2 very different groups.

Thanks for pointing that out! I knew that is was FLDS and typed LDS in error.

On 8/5/2021 at 2:16 PM, Dandruff said:

Does the book cover the abuse of men by domestic partners?  I realize that women, statistically, are on the receiving end more than men are but men are sometimes abused.  I suspect they're also less likely to report.

No, although she may have mentioned it in passing. 

I did come across these critiques (each several paragraphs) of the book on a Web site called Signs, and the author's gracious response and it made me want to read No Visible Bruises Again with their comments in mind.  

Short Takes: Provocations on Public Feminism

Sarah Deer: Patriarchy and Intimate Partner Terrorism: Back to the Roots

Melissa Jeltsen: Inhabiting the Ambiguities of Domestic Violence Narratives

Qudsia Raja: Words Mean Things: Stop Trying to Make “Terrorism” Happen

Natalie J. Sokoloff: We Cannot Criminalize Our Way Out of Domestic Violence

Rachel Louise Snyder: A Response

 

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I wonder if Jim Bob has realized he can’t make this go away or if he is still clinging to some delusion that his lawyers will win and he can get the reality tv money back? There doesn’t seem to be any sign of Josh taking a plea deal and I can’t even imagine what the attorney’s fees are. They have to be sinking a ton of money into trying to save Josh. 

My best guess is that they are praying a lot about this and the Lord hasn’t yet suggested to JB that Josh has used up all his “Prodigal Son” credit.

I say this facetiously, but I do believe that there is a lot of sincere prayer going on in the family. And there is also a lot of denial.  Maybe it isn’t until you get used to the idea that prison is inevitable that you can move on to plea deals.

We are all convinced that Josh will do time, but JB and Josh may have been encouraged by the lawyer(s) to hope that most if not all of the charges can be  thrown out because of some procedural error.  

 

[SorenaJ]

The Daily Mail and The Sun are not reliable. It’s fiction, and a load of bullshit. They are bullies and scum. Don’t give them any clicks. 

[Smee]

13 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I wonder if Jim Bob has realized he can’t make this go away or if he is still clinging to some delusion that his lawyers will win and he can get the reality tv money back? There doesn’t seem to be any sign of Josh taking a plea deal and I can’t even imagine what the attorney’s fees are. They have to be sinking a ton of money into trying to save Josh. 

No sign that we know of, but there may be a lot of negotiation happening in private.

Much as I think JB and Meech are terrible people and terrible parents, I doubt *not* supporting Josh & paying for good lawyers has crossed their mind. They love him, they may feel some sense of responsibility for how he got here (sins of the father and all that), and to turn away and leave him without decent legal representation would seem remarkably cruel if there’s even the  slightest chance he’s innocent (obviously he’s not, but if it was a friend or family member I’d have a lot more denial and doubt). If the legal team is trying to get as much thrown out as possible to negotiate a better plea deal, JB will still spend however many hours that costs, because he’d rather his son spend 5 years in prison than 15. TBH, from what I’ve heard about prisons, I’d probably bankrupt myself to do the same even if I knew my child was guilty. Then again, I’d also have got my child proper help back when he was 15, so.