Gwen Shamblin Lara 16: Remnant after Gwen [Gwen and other RF leaders dead in plane crash]

[mghjuno]

8 hours ago, LifelongRFSurvivor said:

In the beginning people were definitely encouraged to move to Brentwood, and another cult tactic they used was telling people to try to be in “the center of the pack” to make sure they were being held accountable from all angles. Then around 2009 suddenly Gwen was of people in lower tax brackets relocating and asking the church for help, and people began to be told to be a “shining light” for God in their own hometowns and evangelizing there Instead of moving. This resulted in some larger groups of members actually purchasing cheap warehouses and old churches so they could have a place of worship to watch webcasts as a group. They were very publicly praised for this and the relocation slowed down. That being said, many people who wanted to relocate and had the support of leadership did absolutely anything to move closer. They would move 1-2 hours away but some members who did this would be rebuked for not wanting to live “closer to god” and I personally know a couple families who ended up leaving The church because they were tired of being told they “only went halfway”.

When my family finally moved to Brentwood (without me) they had a lot of help from members to secure gainful employment. But I know that even so, my mother shared a one bedroom apartment with 3 of my siblings just to make ends meet financially. Most of my childhood my family was in financial ruins because of how much money they spent on traveling across the country 4-5 times a year, and buying remnant supplies and merch. Had it not been for the fact that remnant leadership gave us permission to use our 10% tithe towards the trips, we would have been destitute...


Members that relocated and lived with other members tended to be used as free labor vía landscaping or child care. But that kind of “mentorship” has been less common for new and relocating members. However this remains standard practice for any young people who are unmarried who want to move to the area, and young adult children of satellite members. They find a host family, learn from them how they should be living, and then are “counseled” Into who they should be in a relationship with.

Remnant does not put energy into creating victims who may be capable of fighting back. So they take any chance to isolate people from their support systems.

I don't even know what to say. That is so horrible. I hope that everyone currently in that kind of predicament takes this opportunity to leave and never look back. I honestly can't imagine being led like this to near destitution, and the "leader" just wanting more and more and caring so little for the consequences their followers have to face. But you see it every day and could argue that is the whole reason a forum like this even exists.

[HereticHick]

I had never seen any pics of Gwen Shamblin or her family before this weekend and holy sh*t that hair, makeup, and Victorian consumptive bride getup will haunt me forevermore.

[FrozenSmile]

A girl that I grew up with lives in Brentwood (moved there to be closer to the church) & is eyeball deep in this cult. Almost everything she posts on fb (especially in the past few days) is about how amazing Gwen is/was, how much her teachings have changed her life, etc. Everything she posts is sugary sweet & always points back to how great Gwen is, not how great God is. It’s actually pretty disturbing.

My question for those in the know: did Gwen encourage members to actually read the Bible? Or were they only supposed to read approved material? I’ve only barely jumped into the RF rabbit hole, but from what i’ve seen Gwen enjoyed taking scripture & twisting it into nice little soundbites. If they are “allowed” to read the Bible, they might like to start with 2 Peter 2. The entire chapter is about false teachers. I especially like verse 17: “These people are springs without water & mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.”

 

[Sarcastically spinster]

  

12 hours ago, Dana723 said:

I work in a nursing home so morbid humor is my way of coping a lot of the time.  I can't tell you how many times I'm laughing over something that someone outside of the nursing home/healthcare system would be aghast at.

That healthcare dark humor is real.  I have a group message with several other healthcare professionals that gets most of my "would scandalize the socks off the general public" dark humor.  I love that they enjoy it as much as I do.  

  

5 hours ago, bloopbloopdoop said:

on Facebook after the crash I saw a few members refer to 7 as 'The Lord's Number' and that it was no coincidence that that was the amount of casualties from the crash. I have no idea why 7 is considered the lord's number in that church, I guess that's something Gwen preached in private. I was born on the 7th, I wonder if they'd find me especially holy?

Seven is often used as a number symbolizing completion throughout the Bible.  While the conclusions here probably aren't as broadly accepted, this article gives a decent overview of some of the places that it seems to be used that way:  https://www.christianity.com/wiki/bible/what-is-the-biblical-significance-of-the-number-7.html

[AmazonGrace]

 

4 minutes ago, FrozenSmile said:

 

My question for those in the know: did Gwen encourage members to actually read the Bible? Or were they only supposed to read approved material? I’ve only barely jumped into the RF rabbit hole, but from what i’ve seen Gwen enjoyed taking scripture & twisting it into nice little soundbites. If they are “allowed” to read the Bible, they might like to start with 2 Peter 2. The entire chapter is about false teachers. I especially like verse 17: “These people are springs without water & mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.”

 

Well at least in the devotionals she used to tell people to pray and read the Bible as a distraction technique to avoid eating... 

But there was a WeighDown materials related  reading recommendation in nearly all devos so I'm reasonably certain that she plugged her own books more than the Bible.  

Former members and Gwen  have described that Bible verses have been used as signs from God. Like a kind of magic eightball in which a random snippet gets twisted to give you the sign you want God to give.  

 

(I used this technique to find out that God wants me to stone somebody to death) 

I used to dig up some of the Bible verses that she  used in the devos, and it seemed to me that she often used bits and pieces that in their proper context had nothing to do with the point she was making.   

[Howl]

11 hours ago, freefromthin said:

Just saw one of their leaders (Durville Patton) on the news saying that RF is gonna be stronger than ever after this tragedy.

I was thinking about this over breakfast this morning. What a weird thing to say just two (?) days after the tragic demise of 7 people and I found it so telling about how RF sees itself. 

When you're a church, the focus is (or should be) on providing solace through faith and comforting the grieving. 

When you're a business or sports club, you hustle out a PR  spokesperson to say rosy things (we're gonna be stronger than ever!)  to retain fan or stockholder confidence. 

 

 

[Pathologic Antagonist]

Well, for all of RF's tragic clinging to every word Gwen uttered including her passion for finding signficance in signs, oracles, and numbers, here's something to think about I mentioned elsewhere.

Seven people founded RF.

Seven people - including 3 of those 7 - died in that jet crash.

Think on these things if you will. I think there's an irony here that shouldn't be lost in all of the beatification of those who were lost. 

[3splenty]

40 minutes ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

  

That healthcare dark humor is real.  I have a group message with several other healthcare professionals that gets most of my "would scandalize the socks off the general public" dark humor.  I love that they enjoy it as much as I do.  

I'm like that, too!  Humor is a coping mechanism.  Otherwise we would all be out of the profession by now.  Plus, you form sentences that you never thought you'd ever say.  "No, it's not advised to place feminine products in your rectum, even if they have strings on them."

[Blue]

20 hours ago, mghjuno said:

I have a question for anyone with a personal connection to this church. I grew up in Brentwood & still live in a nearby town, and I keep getting surprised by the comments that she “encouraged people to move to Brentwood.” That’s not something that just anyone can do. Since this church had existed you would have to be extremely wealthy to move to Brentwood. (I’m a genXer who was lucky enough to buy a house long before the crazy Williamson County real estate bubble, or I’d be priced out of my own home town). So this makes me wonder, did she specifically try to attract the extremely wealthy to her church from out of town? 
 

OR is there any truth to the suspicion/rumors that I’ve heard that many members would live together in a house, maybe with several of them paying rent to her or the wealthy homeowner? Of course, “move to Brentwood” might just mean move to within an hour or less of the church which wouldn’t have been unreasonable for most people until this year when home prices went insane everywhere. 

We know people who BARELY make ends meet to be able to live in the Brentwood/Franklin area. We also know people who ended up purchasing homes around 45 minutes from Brentwood, simply because Brentwood/Franklin wasn't affordable at all, but as soon as it was feasible they moved closer to RF. We know people who live in tiny houses/condos, rather than more comfortable homes, because it keeps them closer to RF.

As far as people living together, I can't speak of married couples doing this (I've heard of it, but nobody I know), but I know that's how they got the younger members of my family out there... it was nice to move out to TN and move into a gorgeous mansion and suddenly be surrounded by a bunch of people who wanted to be your best friend. I know of quite a few young people (early 20s) who lived with wealthy members of the group for years so they could move out to Brentwood. They were most definitely used as live-in housekeepers and babysitters.

Oddly enough, even when these young people could have lived with their own family members (as more and more people moved out there) they still lived with wealthy members of the church. It was odd, and I remember asking my husband why they would live with other church members when they could be living with parents or aunts/uncles. It was kind of weird.

[AmazonGrace]

16 minutes ago, Howl said:

I was thinking about this over breakfast this morning. What a weird thing to say just two (?) days after the tragic demise of 7 people and I found it so telling about how RF sees itself. 

When you're a church, the focus is (or should be) on providing solace through faith and comforting the grieving. 

When you're a business or sports club, you hustle out a PR  spokesperson to say rosy things (we're gonna be stronger than ever!)  to retain fan or stockholder confidence. 

 

 

Eh... it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the deceased, is it...? We're going to be better than ever now you're dead...

[formergothardite]

11 minutes ago, Pathologic Antagonist said:

I think there's an irony here that shouldn't be lost in all of the beatification of those who were lost.

It is ironic that Gwen, who looked down on so many others, died because she wanted to attend a hate rally and party with criminals and traitors. If she had been a smidge nicer of a person she wouldn’t have been on that plane. Her evil beliefs really did do her in in the end. 

[Blue]

1 hour ago, FrozenSmile said:

A girl that I grew up with lives in Brentwood (moved there to be closer to the church) & is eyeball deep in this cult. Almost everything she posts on fb (especially in the past few days) is about how amazing Gwen is/was, how much her teachings have changed her life, etc. Everything she posts is sugary sweet & always points back to how great Gwen is, not how great God is. It’s actually pretty disturbing.

My question for those in the know: did Gwen encourage members to actually read the Bible? Or were they only supposed to read approved material? I’ve only barely jumped into the RF rabbit hole, but from what i’ve seen Gwen enjoyed taking scripture & twisting it into nice little soundbites. If they are “allowed” to read the Bible, they might like to start with 2 Peter 2. The entire chapter is about false teachers. I especially like verse 17: “These people are springs without water & mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.”

 

Yep. The day it happened it was radio silence for all of our RF friends/family - since then it has been non-stop posts about how they'll never stop following their example and how amazing they were. I don't begrudge them that - I know that these were genuinely people who they loved and adored... these were genuinely their friends. But it has bothered me for YEARS that whenever they would share things about their faith, they VERY rarely quoted the Bible... they quoted Gwen. 

I have NOT (by the grace of God) actually been in RF, but I do have a lot of family/friends who are in. I never feel that they're discouraged from reading the Bible. They read it... often. But it is often in the form of Bible flopping... where they open it up, read the pages, and the inevitably find something that God was telling them in those two pages. Rather than going to the Bible to find out what it says, they just use it to prove whatever point they wanted to make. She was definitely the queen of soundbites, and especially the queen of taking the Word out of context. Don't get me started.

As far as approved materials... I don't think the Bible is off limits (and I guess in the past year or two she's changed from demanding only the 1984 NIV?) but ANY other Bible Studies ARE off limits. No question. They won't tell you that - they insist they just don't want to read other studies because they've already found the "truth" in Gwen's studies, but I can tell you that (at least the people we know) won't even entertain the idea of reading the writings of any other teachers.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Blue
grammar

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Eh... it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the deceased, is it...? We're going to be better than ever now you're dead...

Is it wrong that I kind of hope one of my kids says that at my funeral since it would be funny?

[Blue]

28 minutes ago, Howl said:

I was thinking about this over breakfast this morning. What a weird thing to say just two (?) days after the tragic demise of 7 people and I found it so telling about how RF sees itself. 

When you're a church, the focus is (or should be) on providing solace through faith and comforting the grieving. 

When you're a business or sports club, you hustle out a PR  spokesperson to say rosy things (we're gonna be stronger than ever!)  to retain fan or stockholder confidence. 

 

 

That is such a good point.

Like a business, their immediate reaction was to go on the defensive and protect assets. Even in the text that Elizabeth sent the group in the immediate aftermath... it was focused on how this ministry would continue.

[Jacked]

16 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Didn't they get kicked out of leadership? If that is true, I agree very interesting choice. Makes me think of the popular girls claiming to be Mia's bffs in The Princess Diaries. 

Yikes! Kicked out? What in the world for? presuming they were volunteering as leaders why would the church reject their free labor?

[Pathologic Antagonist]

42 minutes ago, Howl said:

 

When you're a business or sports club, you hustle out a PR  spokesperson to say rosy things (we're gonna be stronger than ever!)  to retain fan or stockholder confidence. 

 

 

My vote for post of the day. But I dont come by here much, so it may be worthless. But I will vote anyway. 

Howl, that is exactly what is going on here.

Let's never ever forget that Gwen did not look on the WDW or her Fellowship as just a church. Ever.

It was and is a business. She was a CEO and a tireless promoter of her goods and services. Her God talk always included references to Christians as "employees" of God .. and that He was also a CEO (Freudian slip, maybe). Her "church" services which were essentially a combination of sales pep rally and praise of her and her sacred science which would save the world. Acknowledgement of her copyrighted perspectives on God beginning with the social engineering of full immersion into Remnant's society was necessary to ensure her product was properly applied. That's because God is always best understood when marketed by a controlled and tightly focused totalist system of indoctrination through product line training.

She viewed her authority as absolute when controlling the day to day. Her feigned humility was for the cameras and the ad print. The participants of WDW and the members of RF were leveraged into becoming equally tireless salespeople for "The Message" and the curricula that needed to be purchased. Her salesforce organization was called an "outreach" and always was aware of the bottom dollar.  It was always a business and now the brand has taken a grievous hit and the product line has to be defended and affirmed. The testimonials will take a fever pitch. And no further R & D will be done, for the moment .. although the tweaking of the enterprise is surely being planned.

In the deposition she gave when she brought a second lawsuit against me and our ministry, back in 2010 in my lawyer's office, it was very clear that when it came right down to it, that's exactly how she felt. There was no such thing as the sacred and the profane to her when it came to mixing religion with business. She spoke of it bluntly as an operation of commerce .. not a Christian organism of the Spirit. It was what David Shamblin always objected to but that never made her pause for a moment. 

A page from her book for children .. God is the most important thing, in fact He is "everything" down to owning the money.

You can't make this up. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Pathologic Antagonist

[MamaJunebug]

50 minutes ago, Pathologic Antagonist said:

Well, for all of RF's tragic clinging to every word Gwen uttered including her passion for finding signficance in signs, oracles, and numbers, here's something to think about I mentioned elsewhere.

Seven people founded RF.

Seven people - including 3 of those 7 - died in that jet crash.

Think on these things if you will. I think there's an irony here that shouldn't be lost in all of the beatification of those who were lost. 

Seven appears  lots of times in Judaism, and RF seems based on lots of Judaic practices. 
 

4 Important Numbers In Judaism

21 minutes ago, Pathologic Antagonist said:

In the deposition she gave when she brought a second lawsuit against me and our ministry, back in 2010 in my lawyer's office, it was very clear that when it came right down to it, that's exactly how she felt. There was no such thing as the sacred and the profane to her when it came to mixing religion with business. She spoke of it bluntly as an operation of commerce .. not a Christian organism of the Spirit. It was what David Shamblin always objected to but that never made her pause for a moment. 

Wow.  Thank you for the information. 

[fransalley]

22 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Heh!

Showed hairstyle to the gal who does my hair. Her analysis: Many extensions, much gel and more spray, and probably a Bump-it kind of thing.  
 

Fun fact: What we now call Bump-its were once made of human hair formed into a fat oblong and referred to as a “rat.”

[Source: My grandmother, born 1880. Her daughter -in-law (BMJB) had asked her how ladies of Grandma’s youth had been able to style their hair in the bouffant “Gibson girl” look.]

This may be the origin of the alternate verb for backcombing or  “teasing” the hair: “ratting” it.

Is this similar to a “hair switch”?

[freefromthin]

I think that the members of RF are well aware that Gwen was THE FACE of their "ministry" and that MANY people have speculated about what would happen to it if Gwen died. Though I was never a member of RF, I spent a LOT of time in her classes and on the various media that was used to communicate. We were encouraged to ALWAYS give credit to Gwen and WD for any successes that we saw whether weight loss oriented or "laying down sin". Negativity and/or discussion of any STRUGGLES with her program was HIGHLY discouraged. Using any scripture or religious ideologies other than what SHE taught were discouraged. Whenever I spoke with a member one on one, they ALWAYS made it a point to say how much Gwen's message had changed their lives. Any questions that I asked that could be perceived as negative were either deflected or ignored. Gwen's teachings  were also hailed as being THE REASON that they had anything good in their lives. No one else gave a sermon or offered any thoughts about the Bible from what I can tell. So now that Gwen is gone, I think that they are not only bent on reassuring any outsiders that they will be "stronger than ever", but also any members who might have their doubts. It will definitely be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.

They are due to have a service today, but it will be interesting to see whether or not that takes place. They do have a link at the bottom of the Remnant Fellowship webpage to allow anyone to watch their webcasts. Webcasts used to require a log in, but they recently (before Gwen's death) had a website redesign. Since they had already set a precedent of airing past videos of Gwen's sermons, so it wouldn't be surprising to see such a thing at today's service, if they have one. 

 

 

 

[fundiefreak]

Question: does anyone know if funerals will be held?  Do families post obits in local papers so people can pay last their respects?  How does RF handle burial?  You would think there would be a BIG “Celebration of Life”

[thoughtful]

37 minutes ago, fransalley said:

Is this similar to a “hair switch”?

A switch is usually long, or at least longish, and worn so it shows - the same purpose as extensions, but just stuck on with a comblike doohickey. 

A rat is a lump put under a lifted chunk of long hair, to make the 1900s Gibson girl or 1940s bangs, and isn't supposed to show.

 

[ManyGoats]

6 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

There is some good stuff on that in previous threads. I will try to help you find it.

I would be interested in that as well.

Oops, sorry, I posted that too soon. Further reading provided your link.

Edited June 2, 2021 by ManyGoats
Mistakes were made.

[ManyGoats]

2 hours ago, 3splenty said:

Plus, you form sentences that you never thought you'd ever say.  "No, it's not advised to place feminine products in your rectum, even if they have strings on them."

In a similar way we elementary school teachers laugh at the things we find ourselves saying in the course of a completely normal day, such as, "Please don't wipe your boogers on the wall."

 

[bloopbloopdoop]

Spoiler

Disturbing picture I've just found of Joe. He's doing the alt-right 'ok' symbol a la this Pepe:

Spoiler

Did he hope to use Gwen as some sort of platform to promote these beliefs? 

Joe always creeped me tf out with his weird grimaces while Gwen talked. You could argue it was because of all the surgery but I feel like he believed he was sending out some sort of secret message...

Also, the fact that he accused his ex-wife of sexually abusing her daughter of all things was super bizarre. But now it's obvious he had some kinda Qanon paranoia about her being a liberal with powerful friends and therefore a pedo.

Another horrible picture of Joe I found (trigger warning)

Spoiler

 

[Sarcastically spinster]

6 minutes ago, bloopbloopdoop said:

Disturbing picture I've just found of Joe. He's doing the alt-right 'ok' symbol

I hadn't previously heard of the OK symbol being seen as an alt-right sign.  Based on what I found on NPR, I'm not sure it's widespread enough or well-known enough to assume that's how he meant it?  https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764728163/the-ok-hand-gesture-is-now-listed-as-a-symbol-of-hate

I could just be uninformed, but IMO the fact that they were on a plane to a MAGA rally is far more concerning of their political beliefs than use of a sign that doesn't seem to have had much connection to alt-right beliefs until four years ago.