Gwen Shamblin Lara 16: Remnant after Gwen [Gwen and other RF leaders dead in plane crash]

[Destiny]

Continued from here: 

 

What we know: on the 29th, a plane carrying Gwen, Joe, Brandon Hannah, the Martins, and the Walters crashed into a lake shortly after takeoff, presumably killing all on board. 

Local news link: https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/controversy-surrounded-brentwood-church-founder-for-years-gwen-shamblin-lara-among-those-presumed-dead

Radar track of airplane + ATC audio: 

(Note: there is some discussion of what is being referred to as alarms in that tweet as actually being some feedback from a plane system. Take the alarm comment with a grain of salt.)

The purpose of the trip may have been to attend a Trump Rally they may have been sponsoring in Florida: 

It's possible that no one on the plane was qualified to fly the plane (h/t to @FiveAcres for the link): https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2021/05/30/tennessee-plane-crash-saturday-percy-priest-lake/5271905001/

Remnant Fellowship's statement on the loss of Gwen and the other leaders: https://www.remnantfellowship.org/information-regarding-the-unexpected-passing-of-remnant-fellowship-leaders/

Edited May 31, 2021 by Destiny
adding links to more information / past thread / link to Remnant statement

[throwaway9988]

I can't get over the use of the phrase "controlled, quick landing" in the original PR statement.  One day, that phrase will be in PR textbooks alongside gems such as "Your client didn't die of a drug overdose, he 'entered an irreversible nonliving state after circumstantial exposure to unknown substances,' and your client didn't divorce the mother of his children and marry his housekeeper in a Vegas chapel, he 'reassessed and reimagined his marital options in a fresh and inspiring location.'"  It says a lot about Remnant that they are such old pros at damage control, and so experienced at putting a spin on everything for their members, that it seemed better to them to use such a ridiculous euphemism rather than just stating the facts: "The plane is unaccounted for and we don't have any more details yet."

Edited May 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[McMansion]

@HerNameIsBuffy

When ex-members tell you how they’re feeling, why can’t you believe them? I find it disconcerting that folks on here are more quick to become defensive than to listen.

 

Seeing posts from folks without affiliation to RF about who is going to takeover and what the future holds right now doesn’t sit right with me. People have died, and they’re being grieved right now. Even if RF has done awful things, there still needs to be consideration for the people who are personally affected by this event.

Edited May 30, 2021 by McMansion
Typo

[hoipolloi]

1 minute ago, McMansion said:

Seeing posts from folks without affiliation to RF about who is going to takeover and what the future holds right now doesn’t sit right with me.

Then perhaps you shouldn't read here. This is a snark board, not a counseling site. We discuss abusive religious cults, including RF. If that's too much for you, go elsewhere but don't try to tone police legitimate comments and discussions.

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

I can't get over the use of the phrase "controlled, quick landing" in the original PR statement.  One day, that phrase will be in PR textbooks alongside gems such as "Your client didn't die of a drug overdose, he 'entered an irreversible nonliving state after circumstantial exposure to unknown substances,' and your client didn't divorce the mother of his children and marry his housekeeper in a Vegas chapel, he 'reassessed and reimagined his marital options in a fresh and inspiring location.'"

Whoever wrote it must have been deep in shock and they may have been unable to grasp reality. Which is understandable.  

[Coconut Flan]

4 minutes ago, McMansion said:

When ex-members tell you how they’re feeling, why can’t you believe them? I find it disconcerting that folks on here are more quick to become defensive than to listen.

Seeing posts from folks without affiliation to RF about who is going to takeover and what the future holds right now doesn’t sit right with me. People have died, and they’re being grieved right now. Even if RF has done awful things, there still needs to be consideration for the people who are personally affected by this event

Actually, no.  This is a snark forum, not a rehab center for current or ex members of any group.  You have entered our living room and just as you wouldn't tell me to my face in my own living room how to run my house or shouldn't do that if you wish to stay, you don't get to decree what and how people discuss things here.  This is not an RF grief counseling center.  If that's what you need, I'm sure it's out there.   Knowing what is going to be discussed here, please remember you continue to read at your own risk. 

[Giraffe]

4 minutes ago, McMansion said:

 

Even if RF has done awful things, there still needs to be consideration for the people who are personally affected by this event.

I'm sorry you're hurting right now and I'm sorry this terrible thing has happened. It's a terrible life changing event for many many people. Ultimately this is a snark site and if people are in need of group therapy or support, this probably isn't a place they should be for the time being. 

[throwaway9988]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

Whoever wrote it must have been deep in shock and they may have been unable to grasp reality. Which is understandable.  

Sorry, I was editing while you were posting.  Don't you think it is so much easier to just state simple facts like "the plane is unaccounted for and we don't have any further details at this time."  They can't be honest with their members and give them any news without spin, not even once.

[Howl]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

deep in shock and they may have been unable to grasp reality. Which is understandable.  

Yes, "controlled landing" leaves open hope of survival; crash carries an assumption that all souls on board perished. 

[Destiny]

Just now, throwaway9988 said:

Sorry, I was editing while you were posting.  Don't you think it is so much easier to just state simple facts like "the plane is unaccounted for and we don't have any further details at this time."  They can't be honest with their members and give them any news without spin, not even once.

I don't disagree that that would have been better communication, but you are using logic. Humans under severe stress don't respond in predictable or logical ways. I think it was a little bit of hope, and a little bit of denial and a little bit of not knowing what to say. 

Regardless of my feelings for the people on that plane, I am so, so sorry for the pain the people who knew the people on board. Families will be forever changed, and that's sad, no matter who the people were. 

[throwaway9988]

Not only that, controlled landing is such a ridiculous euphemism to the point of being outright bullshit.  The facts were that the plane was completely unaccounted for at the time of that text message, even ignoring that people were strongly presuming it had crashed.  It's just straight up lying to everyone to state that a controlled landing had occurred.  Anyways, I agree with you guys that a component of shock and denial probably played a role. I will stop beating this dead horse now : )

Edited May 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[freefromthin]

https://deadline.com/2021/05/joe-lara-gwen-lara-plane-crash-tarzan-the-epic-adventures-1234766642/

This article starts out by talking about Joe. When I was doing some reading about him, I saw on his IMDB that he had been in a movie in 2018. I didn't even know that.

[Giraffe]

Just now, throwaway9988 said:

Not only that, controlled landing is such a ridiculous euphemism to the point of being outright bullshit.  The plane was completely unaccounted for at the time of that text message.  It's just lying to people to say a controlled landing occurred.

You're right in all of this but you're ignoring Elizabeth as having emotions. She had just learned that 7 of her nearest friends and family had probably died in a horrific way. I'm sure a couple years from now she could look back and come up with many better ways of saying it but in this I'll give her a pass. I'm not sure how coherent I would be in the same scenario. I'm guessing about the same. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, McMansion said:

@HerNameIsBuffy

When ex-members tell you how they’re feeling, why can’t you believe them? I find it disconcerting that folks on here are more quick to become defensive than to listen.

 

Seeing posts from folks without affiliation to RF about who is going to takeover and what the future holds right now doesn’t sit right with me. People have died, and they’re being grieved right now. Even if RF has done awful things, there still needs to be consideration for the people who are personally affected by this event.

We are not a support group.  Many of us have our own experience with cults or religious trauma and if we wanted to converse with only others who shared the same experiences we'd find a forum for just those people.  We wouldn't find a site not dedicated to our recovery and try to take it over for our own purposes.

People will post here as they like as long as rules aren't broken and that will not change.  If you need a safe place then you should definitely either find or create one...but this will not be it.

[jakesykora]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Whoever wrote it must have been deep in shock and they may have been unable to grasp reality. Which is understandable.  

Considering it was an internal memo or something also, I wonder if on some level it was also an attempt at trying to portray calm and like things were under control and wanting to slow the rumor mill (which it was already all over SM and even MSM that it was an RF plane and Gwen was believed to be on it even prior to that) to buy themselves some time. 

If they could get RF people feeling like there was still hope, it might not be that bad, etc. it'd give more time for formulating 'next steps.'

While obviously there are people impacted by the loss of people they loved, there's also the whole trying to keep the whole operation (in their eyes, ministry) going that was funding lifestyles that would be an additional thing crashing down, on top of the losses of people.

In fact, not losing all their top leadership at once is why many businesses, organizations, ministries, etc. typically don't let all their high level leaders and decision makers travel on the same flights (commercial or private) because god forbid if something happened, you deal with exactly what RF is facing - how to move forward with something when you lose a lot of key people. And then you potentially face layers of loss beyond the loss of life.

So I really think there was intentionality behind why it was portrayed the way it was in that initial memo. There are many people with a lot at stake with RF, beyond 'only' facing losing people they valued.

[luv2laugh]

Have they recovered anything? I’m having trouble finding information online. 
 

I wonder why Brandon Hannah was on the plane without Elizabeth??? Thankfully, her and the kids weren’t. I am feeling concerned for Elizabeth and her kids. I think the Martins (David) were 2nd in command to Gwen. I also feel so sad the other couple died and left behind kids.

Edited May 30, 2021 by luv2laugh

[WorseThan1Thinks]

I had heard last night that they were flying to FL to attend a 'Trump event.'

Along similar lines, Phil Williams just posted this:

 

[MomJeans]

"On Sunday morning, first responders remain on the scene and are continuing recovery efforts. The recreation area is where first responders are located and it is completely blocked off. The Rutherford County Government PIO told News 2 they do not anticipate any news briefings until later Sunday evening. The lead investigator from the National Transportation Safety Board is now on site."

https://www.wkrn.com/news/day-2-recovery-efforts-continue-following-deadly-plane-crash-on-percy-priest-lake/

(update linked above)

[jakesykora]

For those wanting more details on the current status of investigation, here's the midday update from the Rutherford County Sheriff from within the past hour (pictures at link)

Key points:

• Dive teams, etc. have recovered more plane debris and more human remains
• Debris field about half a mile wide
• LE drone operations continuing overhead to assist them and other air traffic restrictions are in place right there so they can work the scene
• NTSB has their lead investigator on site now and will be the lead investigating agency, along with FAA and local agencies who will be assisting, and will work with Cessna to aid. NTSB indicates up to 1-2 years to complete investigation (that's not unusual...preliminary info usually comes out earlier, but completing them does take time)
• On scene work will continue until dark today, then resume again Monday am
• Civilians are requested to stay away from the area, particularly boaters, both for scene preservation and safety of those working the scene and safety of boaters due to debris, etc. in the area
• Lamar Hill boat ramp and Fate Sanders Recreation Area are closed until further notice due to the investigation
• All investigation inquiries need to be directed to the NTSB now. Local agencies or NTSB will release more info if/when necessary/appropriate

 

https://www.facebook.com/Rutherfordcountyfirerescue/posts/3947838801966068

9 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Have they recovered anything? I’m having trouble finding information online. 
 

I wonder why Brandon Hannah was on the plane without Elizabeth??? Thankfully, her and the kids weren’t. I am feeling concerned for Elizabeth and her kids. I think the Martins (David) were 2nd in command to Gwen. I also feel so sad the other couple died and left behind kids.

I've posted updates from pressers yesterday and just posted another moments ago that was given within the past hour that discusses the most recent release of information.

[luv2laugh]

2 minutes ago, jakesykora said:

For those wanting more details on the current status of investigation, here's the midday update from the Rutherford County Sheriff from within the past hour (pictures at link)

Key points:

• Dive teams, etc. have recovered more plane debris and more human remains
• Debris field about half a mile wide
• LE drone operations continuing overhead to assist them and other air traffic restrictions are in place right there so they can work the scene
• NTSB has their lead investigator on site now and will be the lead investigating agency, along with FAA and local agencies who will be assisting, and will work with Cessna to aid. NTSB indicates up to 1-2 years to complete investigation (that's not unusual...preliminary info usually comes out earlier, but completing them does take time)
• On scene work will continue until dark today, then resume again Monday am
• Civilians are requested to stay away from the area, particularly boaters, both for scene preservation and safety of those working the scene and safety of boaters due to debris, etc. in the area
• Lamar Hill boat ramp and Fate Sanders Recreation Area are closed until further notice due to the investigation
• All investigation inquiries need to be directed to the NTSB now. Local agencies or NTSB will release more info if/when necessary/appropriate

 

https://www.facebook.com/Rutherfordcountyfirerescue/posts/3947838801966068

Is this the first time they’ve announced they’ve recovered human remains?

[FiveAcres]

Here is another more recent news source, from a site called the Tennesean. 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2021/05/30/tennessee-plane-crash-saturday-percy-priest-lake/5271905001/

Skimming it, I found these paragraphs interesting, if true: 

Quote

 

FAA documents raise questions about pilot's license

According to the Federal Aviation Administration website, no one on that flight was qualified to fly the plane. Joe Lara, 58, had a pilot's license, but had not updated his medical certification since 2017. The medical certification is required every two years.

Brandon Hannah, another church leader with a pilot license, was on the flight, but he didn't have a certification for the Cessna 500 series, according to the FAA database.

A recording of the communication between the control tower and the pilot, captured on LiveATC.com (ATC stands for Air Traffic Control), revealed an alarm going off in the cockpit of the plane seconds before it crashed, suggesting a mechanical failure in the aircraft, which was built in 1982.

 

 

[Destiny]

2 minutes ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

I had heard last night that they were flying to FL to attend a 'Trump event.'

Along similar lines, Phil Williams just posted this:

 

Not just attending it, but sponsoring it? That's a great look. ? ICK!

[jakesykora]

Just now, luv2laugh said:

Is this the first time they’ve announced they’ve recovered human remains?

No.

As I said, in posts yesterday afternoon I posted from pressers then, they stated that they had at least one confirmed fatality due to remains (and expected the rest to be).

[tsukinokawa]

I am speechless. I didn't follow Gwen that much here but I never thought that one day she would die in a plane crash. r.i.p to her and other victims

Edited May 30, 2021 by tsukinokawa
changed a word

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

I had heard last night that they were flying to FL to attend a 'Trump event.'

Along similar lines, Phil Williams just posted this:

 

So the one man backed out of a wedding he was supposed to officiate so he could attend a hate rally Gwen was helping sponsor? I have sympathy for their families but these people just really weren’t nice.