[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, Kailash said:

I wish I kept a list of suspected trolls on FJ. Sometimes people act suspiciously but drop off the radar and I forget about them. Then they make some OTT post and I remember. ?

I think there is fair degree of overlap between suspected trolls and my ignore list. For those who just started playing, if you are on your desktop  or laptop computer, hover your mouse pointer over the name of the person you wish to block. A box will appear. At the bottom middle of the box, click ignore. You will be taken to a new page that allows you several options of what you wish to ignore. I leave the mention box unchecked.

This will allow you to ignore the posts of people who don't realize that Arkansas has different laws and rules than the US Government. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, closetcagebaby said:

They are actually the ones that reported him so they are very very much in favor of reporting. The son is an Anabaptist minister and talks a lot about how fundamentalism breeds a lot of abuse. It’s very interesting and thus far gives basically the blueprint of how best to handle it.  

Thank you.  I don't usually ask for indepth clarity ....just struggling a bit with what to click on these days.  I appreciate it.

[seraaa]

Freejinger, I enjoy reading all of your perspectives. Really interesting discussions happening in response to this awful thing

[nini9]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

Of course she understands. It is ridiculous to think she doesn't.  Her husband did the very thing her mother in law was claiming trans people would do. She lived in D.C. surrounded by people whose brand was ranting about how liberals/gay/trans people are evil because they think adults being attracted to children is okay. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS! Was the rallying cry she was a part of. 

This idea she can't understand what he did is bad is bullshit. They have been claiming it is bad for years, just claimed it was the other people doing it, not anyone in their own camp. 

Yeah i've seen some replies where people have been speculating if Anna understands the severity of Josh's crimes, and I mean...its a fair question but she IS an adult. (A married, sexually experienced adult who understands *bare minimum* the psychological/physical aspect of sex too) 

The whole 'innocent until proven guilty' mentality is definitely like the absolute last thread of hope they're clinging onto...once he's in prison for a long-term sentence it will become very 'real' to her. I'm sure she is also still in shock as well. 

[countressrascal]

2 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You Googled the wrong statutes. Arkansas laws only apply to state crimes. These are federal charges.

Here is the link to the Justice Department Child Porn Information:

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-child-pornography

It is my understanding that once he is released his must register with the State and be placed on the Federal Registry, however his restriction are under the state law. 

[Xan]

Alan Bennett wrote a series of monologues called "Talking Heads" and they're excellent.  One of them is called "Playing Sandwiches" and it's about man who is appears to be attempting to reform from his csa tendencies.  It's pretty dark.  The reason I'm even mentioning it is that it made me realize how disordered the character's thinking was.  These people are not operating in the usual moral and logical ways.  There's one bit of dialogue that really disturbed me.  I'm putting the line under a spoiler in case it's triggering.  I have no idea with whom Mr. Bennett might have talked when he was writing this.

Spoiler

The main character is talking about a little girl who has been left alone with him and is "playing sandwiches" (putting one hand over another, etc.)  He says, "She knew what she was doing."

Just like most fundie men infantilize women, I think it's possible that some of them sexualize little girls and ascribe to them more mature thinking than they should.

 

[keep_my_spleen]

11 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

She was what, mid to late 20's? And she had lived in Washington D.C. and she had siblings who had left the lifestyle and were still fully loved by her parents. She had family offering to help. I would have more sympathy if she was an 18 year old whose family would have shunned her. 

Okay, that makes more sense.  For me, I was 16 when I first started talking to my ex and 18 when it ended, so very different time frames there.

I do still think she's entrenched, but maybe not as much as someone like Jill or Jinger was/is, and has made some very different choices than them.

[Freejin]

55 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Disgraceful, though it appears the Caldwell's and Duggar's are not friends anymore, Joe and Kendra are still married and don't need people stirring up shit between both their parents any further. I think the other siblings, inlaws and inlaws families shouldn't be getting harrassed on social media over Josh. 

How do you know they’re not friends anymore? Was there a falling out?

[NotQuiteMotY]

@zee_four, would you mind putting your description under a spoiler box? I was a bit taken aback to see a relatively graphic description of your experiences, and I wouldn't be surprised if it may be triggering for some members of FJ with no warning.

[Lavenderdilly]

2 hours ago, seraaa said:

I did not know this! That's really fantastic of them. A good thing.

And yeah, I can imagine there is still so much work to do to turn these ideas into policy reality. They are complex, expensive changes and it'd take time and effort. Not the fast and shiny election promises

Alex Timpson ( decd) was a remarkable woman and I think she’s the main force behind the hiring ethos of the company, her influence on her husband and children is easily seen  , look her up.  If you’re from UK you’ll know their shoe business , they also have a couple of pubs where they offer jobs and training  to long term unemployed , people leaving care-  who are at a real disadvantage in the job market,  and of course their main business hire lots of ex offenders , because for many ex offenders not having income and stability means reoffending is almost inevitable. Their staff care policy is one which many bigger companies should look at and try and emulate.(e.g  a day of on the day your child starts school for the first time so you can take them yourself ) 
 

As one of the sons said  -“ many firms hire ex offenders they just don’t know it because ex offenders doctor their cv to get a job” .Timpsons are upfront about choosing to give ex offenders an opportunity to earn an income after serving their sentence and also people allowed out of prison on day release to get work experience. 
 

[nausicaa]

5 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

If he had a tiny shred of decency he'd tell her himself that he needs to live separately.  Or file for divorce himself. He probably has nothing but contempt for anyway.  

When he comes out of prison, especially if Jim Bob has ended or severely reduced his bankrolling of him, I fully expect this to happen. 

He has no prestige in his social circles anymore, and can't leverage his family name for any kind of job. He hasn't been a true believer in quite a while, and after the roughness of prison and a long separation from Fundamentalist habits, I can see him just saying fuck it and not even bothering to pretend anymore. 

I hope it happens; it'd probably be the best for everyone. 

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, Drala said:

We have a lot in common.  I also have a background in addictions and worked with adolescents as a clinical social worker for several years.  I eventually did a PhD in social work.  My dissertation looked at cultural perceptions of sexualized behavior involving adults and children. After that, I did behavioral and public health policy analysis for the state where I live.  I retired last year. 

I have also been away from FJ for a while.  I joined FJ in 2015 when I was laid up with a hip replacement and heard about Joshgate 1 & 2.  In response to my very first post in this forum, an Admin gave me a warning against speculation.  In a thread about Josh's "porn addiction," I suggested that he might be looking at child porn.  I wish my instincts had been wrong about that.

I remember back then that there were debates on whether or not he met the diagnosis of a *you know what* and people kept going back and forth about the age of 15 being below 16 along with whether it was a crime of opportunity vs. about children. 

At first, I definitely suspected he was a *you know what* but, after awhile, I started assuming it was about the opportunity. I think my mind assumed it because it’s more comfortable to assume that was the case vs. the other... 

Edited May 2, 2021 by luv2laugh

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

@zee_four, would you mind putting your description under a spoiler box? I was a bit taken aback to see a relatively graphic description of your experiences, and I wouldn't be surprised if it may be triggering for some members of FJ with no warning.

That's a really good point - I'll do it now so it's not sitting out there.

[gustava]

1 hour ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Yes, KJ reads here and on Reddit, embellishes the stories, and then posts them as her own.  That said, Boob's 30+ business licenses for god knows what smack of shadiness or mismanagement (actually probably both). I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's engaged in a lot of financial shenanigans.

I did note as she was reading parts of the indictment that it includes language which states that proceeds of the illegal activity must be forfeited.  Does that suggest that Josh might have been involved in either creating and/or selling CP?  Also, the indictment uses "defendantS" plural.  Why plural?  Might someone with legal knowledge comment?

[viii]

Don’t underestimate Anna. I would say that perhaps in the early years of her marriage she was very naive but this is a woman who is also an activist. She knows far more about the secular world than some people realize. Of course she knows what child pornography is. ?

[FiveAcres]

Just now, gustava said:

I did note as she was reading parts of the indictment that it includes language which states that proceeds of the illegal activity must be forfeited.  Does that suggest that Josh might have been involved in either creating and/or selling CP?  Also, the indictment uses "defendantS" plural.  Why plural?  Might someone with legal knowledge comment?

The video (by someone with a background as a state prosecutor) that I watched last night addressed this point. The devices that were seized in in the 2019 raid will not be returned. They are now government property, regardless of outcome. 

[nausicaa]

29 minutes ago, Kailash said:

I wish I kept a list of suspected trolls on FJ. Sometimes people act suspiciously but drop off the radar and I forget about them. Then they make some OTT post and I remember. ?

Some people have certainly been everywhere and done everything. 

[hoipolloi]

1 minute ago, nausicaa said:

32 minutes ago, Kailash said:

I wish I kept a list of suspected trolls on FJ. Sometimes people act suspiciously but drop off the radar and I forget about them. Then they make some OTT post and I remember. ?

Some people have certainly been everywhere and done everything. 

It's been Old Home Week in these threads for the past few days so why shouldn't that include our perennial trolls & braggarts?

[seraaa]

13 minutes ago, Lavenderdilly said:

Alex Timpson ( decd) was a remarkable woman and I think she’s the main force behind the hiring ethos of the company, her influence on her husband and children is easily seen  , look her up.  If you’re from UK you’ll know their shoe business , they also have a couple of pubs where they offer jobs and training  to long term unemployed , people leaving care-  who are at a real disadvantage in the job market,  and of course their main business hire lots of ex offenders , because for many ex offenders not having income and stability means reoffending is almost inevitable. Their staff care policy is one which many bigger companies should look at and try and emulate.(e.g  a day of on the day your child starts school for the first time so you can take them yourself ) 
 

As one of the sons said  -“ many firms hire ex offenders they just don’t know it because ex offenders doctor their cv to get a job” .Timpsons are upfront about choosing to give ex offenders an opportunity to earn an income after serving their sentence and also people allowed out of prison on day release to get work experience. 
 

This all sounds really great

[luv2laugh]

53 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

Josh is a sick dangerous man.  He can NEVER be near children - ever - even his own. 

These are federal charges not state.  It does not matter what the state sanctions are.  He will be tried and sentenced under federal law. 

I’m concerned because some people are saying people with his charges have only served a few years, like 3.5... His kids would still be very young by time he got out. I don’t know if he would be able to be prevented, legally, from living with his kids. I’ve read some say that it doesn’t always happen that they can’t. 
 

It’s also complex because if CPS gets involved, there is a chance all the kids they talk to might not be comfortable talking and something may eventually come out years or decades down the line (if something happened). I think of the Willis family.

Edited May 2, 2021 by luv2laugh

[zee_four]

1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Disgraceful, though it appears the Caldwell's and Duggar's are not friends anymore, Joe and Kendra are still married and don't need people stirring up shit between both their parents any further. I think the other siblings, inlaws and inlaws families shouldn't be getting harrassed on social media over Josh. 

That makes me wonder, everyone is talking about how Anna and the married Duggar kidults will handle this and react but-

 

What about their spouses and in laws? There's got to be at least one family who is really not ok with it and wants to ensure their own children and grandchildren are as far away from it as possible? At least I'd hope so...

[luv2laugh]

7 minutes ago, zee_four said:

That makes me wonder, everyone is talking about how Anna and the married Duggar kidults will handle this and react but-

 

What about their spouses and in laws? There's got to be at least one family who is really not ok with it and wants to ensure their own children and grandchildren are as far away from it as possible? At least I'd hope so...

I’m imagining a few of the Duggar siblings are feuding with JB and others in the family over bailing him out right now... Based on the siblings that liked Jinger’s statement, I’m thinking of people like JD, Joe, maybe Joystin, Josiah, and others like Jed/Jer. Jason is probably very happy he is out of Arkansas and away from TTH... Jessa/Ben probably feel stuck. I can see JB/Michelle sending Jana or Jessa in (probably both) to help Anna cope, if Anna’s not already living at TTH. Probably the lost girls are watching everyone’s kids.

Edited May 2, 2021 by luv2laugh

[FiveAcres]

2 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I’m concerned because some people are saying people with his charges have only served a few years, like 3.5... His kids would still be very young by time he got out. I don’t know if he would be able to be prevented, legally, from living with his kids. I’ve read some say that it doesn’t always happen that they can’t. 

Although people have been warning that he may serve no more than 3.5 years, we do not know what is in the evidence that was seized in the raid. The prosecuting attorneys know. In a few days the defense attorneys will know. And the defense attorneys may take a look at the evidence, swallow to settle an upset stomach, and then start conferring about what is the best possible plea that they might get for Josh from the prosecutors. And the best possible might be considerably more than 3.5 years. 

[zee_four]

18 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's a really good point - I'll do it now so it's not sitting out there.

OMG i am so sorry about that! I feel awful I didn't think about how triggering that could be for others. Part of the whole getting worn down and accepting stuff that isn't normal.

 

Thank you @HerNameIsBuffy for fixing that for me. I appreciate it.

 

♡

[Lavenderdilly]

Just to say I’m in awe of all of you who have shared your experiences of living in Fundie driven families, experiences of family members under sentence or charge,  or have worked in / working in sex based industries. It can’t be easy to have opened  this up to comment but for those of us with the good fortune not to have had some of your experiences , thank you for putting it out there , it widens our perspective .

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Lavenderdilly