So what's the deal with Smuggar and the Oprah interview?

[Sola]

I don't buy the abuse rumour. If Oprah knew something like this, I am pretty sure she would be duty bound to report it. Also if he had done that and it got out, someone, somewhere would report it. People like to bring influential people down and I would imagine that bringing out a Duggar scandal would be a major coup.

[Guest Anonymous]

At least someone is teaching the younger kids SOMETHING. :roll:

The essence of home schooling. I hope to hell it wasn't at the dining room table :o

[Buzzard]

I read the twop speculations about Josh being an ATI camp. I read a different twist to the molestation rumors on IMDB. Someone there posted that Josh molested one of his younger brothers during the time Boob was in politics and that Boob covered it up.

.

I always assumed that it was one of the brothers as well. Joshie has his own room and as far as I know no other duggar has been granted that honor. I always assumed it was because he did something that required he be kept away from the other boys.

[emmiedahl]

It might not have been abuse. A brother could have walked in on Josh's alone time, or he could have shown the second oldest brother something on the net. What they consider perversion =/= actual perversion.

[Buzzard]

It might not have been abuse. A brother could have walked in on Josh's alone time, or he could have shown the second oldest brother something on the net. What they consider perversion =/= actual perversion.

If he was just spanking it they would have made him sleep without sheets so all the other brothers could see what sinful things he was doing and tell on him.

[JenniferJuniper]

I always assumed that it was one of the brothers as well. Joshie has his own room and as far as I know no other duggar has been granted that honor. I always assumed it was because he did something that required he be kept away from the other boys.

Best guess is that he did something they considered inappropriate. Whether it rises to the level most of us would freak out about is anyone's guess.

Of all 19 kids, Josh is the only one most people who watch the show almost instinctively recoil from. Something to consider.

[Kitty]

Best guess is that he did something they considered inappropriate. Whether it rises to the level most of us would freak out about is anyone's guess.

Of all 19 kids, Josh is the only one most people who watch the show almost instinctively recoil from. Something to consider.

He's an asshole and an attention whore?

He's a total dick to Anna, but I think his assholishness is because of his immaturity and, well, he's Jim Bob Jr. None of that is enough to make me believe he is a sexual abuser. I can buy that he found porn, I can buy that he liked it. But I keep finding too many holes in the rumors, and a lot of the rumors contradict each other.

Given Oprah's past, I don't doubt she would have reported Josh's ass to CPS. And I know that sort of thing would be public. The Duggars can't hush everything up. We've seen in when Josie got sick in Israel- they tried to keep it on the DL, but failed. Something like this wouldn't just be a random comment on a blog, and a few threads on unnamed internet forums.

[doe]

There was some speculation that the ATI camp/shaved head situation and 'sin in the camp' was possibly related to the broken off courtship to the Holt girl. And the sin was possibly inappropriate behavior like something past hand holding?

[Guest Anonymous]

Basically that she's propping up Jim Bob and pimping out him and his family for her own gain.

Yeah, what?

Now that just sounds like a crock of horse shit about Grandma Duggar. When I watch the show most of the time she looks exhausted and the rest of the time she looks like a deer caught in the headlights with a look like what the hell did I get myself into by moving into this circus. I know she and Grandpa Duggar moved in when Grandpa got Cancer but now with grandpa gone she needs her own life again and her own place. This woman is constantly helping with the piles of Duggar laundry and she is constantly picking up or cleaning around Michelle and Jimbobs house. At her age she should be going on cruises with friends and having fun while she is coherent enough to have a good time since she is not getting any younger. Jimboob needs to be bitchslapped for making his mother do chores around his home.

[Kitty]

Now that just sounds like a crock of horse shit about Grandma Duggar. When I watch the show most of the time she looks exhausted and the rest of the time she looks like a deer caught in the headlights with a look like what the hell did I get myself into by moving into this circus. I know she and Grandpa Duggar moved in when Grandpa got Cancer but now with grandpa gone she needs her own life again and her own place. This woman is constantly helping with the piles of Duggar laundry and she is constantly picking up or cleaning around Michelle and Jimbobs house. At her age she should be going on cruises with friends and having fun while she is coherent enough to have a good time since she is not getting any younger. Jimboob needs to be bitchslapped for making his mother do chores around his home.

I've never seen Grandma Duggar on the show, but something about the whole "she's pimping Jim Bob out" just didn't sound right to me.

[Buzzard]

I dont believe that joshie actually molested one of his siblings. Its possible that he asked a question, maybe stared too long at another brother, or touched someone. I also believe it was a boy based upon his isolation in his own room and the fact that this would have been disclosed to Anna's family - although its possible that it broke up the first courtship.

Joshie isnt a sex offender, he's was just sexually opressed like many of the kids. He's an ass for sure, but I dont think he's dangerous.

[fundiefan]

I suspect any sin in the camp is josh touched someone's boobie. Or thought about it.

I think the same thing. The words 'porn' and 'molest', if there is any truth to any aspect of the stories at all, most likely means nothing more than looking at/touching/thinking about a boob, or a female in general.

For all the speculation about whatever the story may or may not be, the biggest thing, I think, is for everyone to remember that fundies have pretty different concepts of porn and molestation than the average person. We see porn as, well, porn and molestation as sexual contact/attempts. Fundies see looking at the opposite sex as pornographic and having an original thought about a person of the opposite sex as molestation.

[NurseNell]

I dont believe that joshie actually molested one of his siblings. Its possible that he asked a question, maybe stared too long at another brother, or touched someone. I also believe it was a boy based upon his isolation in his own room and the fact that this would have been disclosed to Anna's family - although its possible that it broke up the first courtship.

Joshie isnt a sex offender, he's was just sexually opressed like many of the kids. He's an ass for sure, but I dont think he's dangerous.

This is what I've always thought also. It may have been something the rest of us would consider normal growing up stuff, like let's play doctor or show me your, I'll show you mine. I don't believe it's anything sinister or abnormal to anyone but the Duggars.

[marmalade]

What we do know is that there is confirmation that Smuggar had a prior courtship, presumably with a Holt girl because there was a sudden rift between the families that lasted for several years. I wonder if part of Smuggar's atonement for that breakup evidenced itself in all those HOLT! signs all over his car lot before the 2010 AR Republican primaries (complete with the Obamacare ambulance).

He probably found internet porn, and I've heard enough stories about the uber-fundies making kids get up in front of their congregations to confess their "sins." The Duggars were homechurching by then, so I can totally buy that he had to make a confession.

I also buy that the Duggars pulled out of Oprah due to her offer of college scholarships. I can totally see Boob and Mullet totally misreading the gesture and instead viewing it as condescending to their way of life. They do tend to be on the defensive a lot, more as their specials became a full-blown "reality" show (Jason's accident and Anna on a toilet are about the only real things I've seen on the show of late).

[Letgo]

If there was "porn" involved in the sin in the camp incident it could have been something like looking at women in bathing suits or being on the Victoria's Secret site.

Josh has never seemed smarmy to me, just sort of oldest-child-immature. As the oldest child, and oldest son to boot, he was his parents' pride and joy, with a lot of responsibility placed upon his shoulders at a young age. He may not have had the best personality to live up to the expectations other had of him. But his behavior has always seemed to me as if he is trying to be what he thinks he should be. I don't think he even notices that his wife carries the luggage and the children. He is supposed to be a leader, not a worker, and that is what he is/does. His actions might be odd and inconsiderate, but I don't think he would see why. He is still very young, only 23 I think, and he had a sheltered life until very recently. Josh is the oldest and forced to be "mature" when he isn't. I'd bet a lot of the work in the family slid right off him and onto his next four sisters-and John David if a male was needed since they have very gender specific ideas. Josh would have been the supervising child who got the credit but didn't actually do the work.

I really can't see Oprah and everyone on her staff keeping quiet if a sex crime had actually been committed and they knew about it. Do we really know for sure that the family definitely taped a show? I recall that old Proctor and Gamble satanic rumor and knew people who claimed that they had seen the show on which the logo was discussed-but there never was a show. It simply didn't happen. Did the Oprah taping really occur? And how do we know for sure?

[tabitha2]

If you choose to believe our ATI/VF mole we have,he has insight on the sin in camp situation and Josh Duggar in General.And that the Oprah thing was nothing related to that but did happen.

[Kitty]

If there was "porn" involved in the sin in the camp incident it could have been something like looking at women in bathing suits or being on the Victoria's Secret site.

Josh has never seemed smarmy to me, just sort of oldest-child-immature. As the oldest child, and oldest son to boot, he was his parents' pride and joy, with a lot of responsibility placed upon his shoulders at a young age. He may not have had the best personality to live up to the expectations other had of him. But his behavior has always seemed to me as if he is trying to be what he thinks he should be. I don't think he even notices that his wife carries the luggage and the children. He is supposed to be a leader, not a worker, and that is what he is/does. His actions might be odd and inconsiderate, but I don't think he would see why. He is still very young, only 23 I think, and he had a sheltered life until very recently. Josh is the oldest and forced to be "mature" when he isn't. I'd bet a lot of the work in the family slid right off him and onto his next four sisters-and John David if a male was needed since they have very gender specific ideas. Josh would have been the supervising child who got the credit but didn't actually do the work.

I really can't see Oprah and everyone on her staff keeping quiet if a sex crime had actually been committed and they knew about it. Do we really know for sure that the family definitely taped a show? I recall that old Proctor and Gamble satanic rumor and knew people who claimed that they had seen the show on which the logo was discussed-but there never was a show. It simply didn't happen. Did the Oprah taping really occur? And how do we know for sure?

We don't know for sure. There's not many sources at all, let alone good ones. I don't think the Oprah taping ever happened. I think the rumors came from the Duggars just travelling somewhere, not having a TV show all about it, and then everyone going nuts trying to figure out why the Duggars wouldn't have a TV special about their travels (do these people never stop to consider that the Duggars might just want to visit family or something?) And it evolved into slander, like "Oprah offered to pay for college for the girls but JB and Michelle got offended" or "Josh molested his sisters/brother/some random girl at church" etc.

I find Josh very immature too, like a teenager. I have a difficult time believing he's 23. He does come across as much younger, and I think to some extent he'd been spoiled AND sheltered. He's at least 2 years older than JD&Jana. He is as sleazy as Jim Bob, but Jim Bob is probably the only person Josh could really look up to, having no older brothers, and being rather isolated from other, older boys/men. I get the impression that JB and Josh are very close, since JB is helping support Josh and Michelle was all "leave and cleave!" Josh is an ass in the sense that the guys I dated in high school were asses- inconsiderate, often rude, often self-centered. Most of my exes have grown out of that, but I don't think Josh has, or ever will. And Anna is extremely unlucky. Jim Bob's sleaze genes plus immaturity-induced assholishness is probably why Josh pisses off so many people.

[lilwriter85]

If there was "porn" involved in the sin in the camp incident it could have been something like looking at women in bathing suits or being on the Victoria's Secret site.

Josh has never seemed smarmy to me, just sort of oldest-child-immature. As the oldest child, and oldest son to boot, he was his parents' pride and joy, with a lot of responsibility placed upon his shoulders at a young age. He may not have had the best personality to live up to the expectations other had of him. But his behavior has always seemed to me as if he is trying to be what he thinks he should be. I don't think he even notices that his wife carries the luggage and the children. He is supposed to be a leader, not a worker, and that is what he is/does. His actions might be odd and inconsiderate, but I don't think he would see why. He is still very young, only 23 I think, and he had a sheltered life until very recently. Josh is the oldest and forced to be "mature" when he isn't. I'd bet a lot of the work in the family slid right off him and onto his next four sisters-and John David if a male was needed since they have very gender specific ideas. Josh would have been the supervising child who got the credit but didn't actually do the work.

I really can't see Oprah and everyone on her staff keeping quiet if a sex crime had actually been committed and they knew about it. Do we really know for sure that the family definitely taped a show? I recall that old Proctor and Gamble satanic rumor and knew people who claimed that they had seen the show on which the logo was discussed-but there never was a show. It simply didn't happen. Did the Oprah taping really occur? And how do we know for sure?

I don't think we will ever really know if a taping happened. I can see Oprah and her staff hiding a "lost episode". If taping had happened I could see audience members telling the media. Years before the Duggars got national attention, Oprah did a few shows about large families. I recall one family she profiled was a Catholic family with 12 or 13 kids and she also interview Celine Dion's family in which there were 14 kids. Oprah used to repeat subjects every few years. Before the Roloffs had a show, Oprah did a show about dwarf couples raising families and after the Roloffs became famous, Oprah had them on her show and she revisited the previous dwarf couples that were on show before. I do think it possible that Oprah did interview and do taping with the Duggars, but again we will never know.

[emmiedahl]

I think there was a taping. A, because you read things like this: http://www.monkeyboxblog.com/2007/01/wh ... today.html B. Because every major TLC family has been on Oprah, so why not the first family of reality TV? I can't see Oprah NOT wanting to interview the Duggars, and I cannot see the Duggars refusing free publicity and trips unless there was some sort of bad blood between Oprah and the family.

[takers401]

I'm confused. Some are saying that Josh had his own room (and this may have been because of the alleged molestation charges). I've never seen Josh with his own room on the shows or mentioned in the books. How did people find this out? I do know that Josh had a Media Room off the Boy's Room that was his as he was interested in that type of thing for a while (I think the Girl's room version of this is their Sewing Room). Is this the room that people are referring to?

[fundyfunland]

Our Knight on another thread just gave us the answer to this. Porn & masterbation - re: "sin in the camp." As for the Oprah episode, according to Knight, the girls turned down paid college educations, and didn't want the episode aired.

[takers401]

Our Knight on another thread just gave us the answer to this. Porn & masterbation - re: "sin in the camp." As for the Oprah episode, according to Knight, the girls turned down paid college educations, and didn't want the episode aired.

This makes me sad in a way. Josh was just doing what boys do, experimenting with their body using the tools (heh) they have. Yet it's looked upon as an evil sin that must be driven out.

[tabitha2]

The Oprah thing.I have feeling the 'free college education' came with all sorts of strings attached,Oprah being quick to take advantage of the huge raves something like giving several daughters (and sons but mostly the girls) of huge,low income at the time family would give her publicity machine.

[O Latin]

I'm confused. Some are saying that Josh had his own room (and this may have been because of the alleged molestation charges). I've never seen Josh with his own room on the shows or mentioned in the books. How did people find this out? I do know that Josh had a Media Room off the Boy's Room that was his as he was interested in that type of thing for a while (I think the Girl's room version of this is their Sewing Room). Is this the room that people are referring to?

I was going to ask the same question. I don't remember Josh ever having his own room. Maybe he did, but I don't remember it ever being specifically mentioned. Wouldn't that contrast pretty sharply with the "they all wanted to have one big room for the boys and one for the girls," spiel from the moving in special?

[nutella addict]

I only recall Josh having a separate room after he and Anna were married when they stayed with the family for a bit here and there to "help out" or something? It was a really long time ago so I may be wrong, but I remember her doing exercises early in her pregnancy with Mac where they were in their own small bedroom in that house? But as far as I remember from before then, Josh was in the boys dorm...