I'm a Reformed Person in VF/ATI circles. Ask Me Anything.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ha, you beat me to it.

He's ignoring all of my questions. I think he's either a troll or an intern who's gone cowboy. And I do mean cowboy - chaps, spurs, and boots!

Why so shy, intern?

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Ask you anything? How about do you still buy into this stuff at all?

I'm too tired to debate my thoughts that none of these camps are in any way intellectual...but maybe someone else isn't.

No comment on question one. I'm theologically reformed, have a great amount of respect for Christian heroes of ages past, but I also believe in modern science. I'm diplomatic about who I share my views to, but I do respect and admire certain leaders in the VF/ATI/MME movements, and despise and loathe others.

When I say intellectual, I don't mean that they're of the same persuasion or conclusions as other intellectuals, merely that they do think at a very high level, and are intellectually gifted people. Hitler, one of the most horrible and despicable humans to have ever existed, was actually an academically gifted person. I disagree entirely with his conclusions but I recognize that he must have been a hell of a speaker to get that many people to cheer him.

[erunerune]

1. I predict record-setting FJ pageviews for this thread. I'm riveted. Positively riveted. Fundies, ex-fundies, fundie-watchers alike are hitting refresh like crazy.

2. I know our kindly knight is protecting his identity for obvious reasons, but can we get a vague sense of where you fit in this world, Mr. Knight? Apart from being a 20-somethingish white male, I guess :)

3. Were you are the Noor/Botkin nuptials? Was the wedding as grim & cheerless as it appeared online, or did you just have to be there to catch the fun parts?

4. Who is your favorite VF rock star, apart from Dougie? Who is your secret VF royalty girl crush?

5. As an outsider, VF appears positively suffocating, but obviously its member would disagree. What's your take?

6. What brought you to Free Jinger?

7. You don't have to answer any of these if they are too nosey or time-consuming, but since you so generously offered.... thanks! :)

[mirele]

I actually do kind of believe this. I know when we went to Reformed/Reconstructionst/Rushdoony-reading church there was lots and lots and LOTS of talk. In fact, one of the ways my parents dealt with my sister and I was to sit us down and have long conversations (sometimes hours long) explaining why we were wrong and they were right. The conversations didn't end until we were in tears, promising to do better.

It's all "intellectualism" within a very small sphere. You can't go outside of Calvin and certain scholars. God forbid that you actually read something on (for example) the Documentary Hypothesis or about the sayings gospel Q. But within, there is a lot of stuff to learn and discuss and there are differences of opinion within a fairly narrow band (examples: sublapsarianism versus supralapsarianism, paedocommunion versus adult communion, and so on). And they argue about it. (I had a friend in college who tried to convert me to TULIP and all that. I think that was the beginning of the end as far as me and Christianity.)

[Guest Anonymous]

When I say intellectual, I don't mean that they're of the same persuasion or conclusions as other intellectuals, merely that they do think at a very high level, and are intellectually gifted people. Hitler, one of the most horrible and despicable humans to have ever existed, was actually an academically gifted person. I disagree entirely with his conclusions but I recognize that he must have been a hell of a speaker to get that many people to cheer him.

Dude. Did you just compare Vision Forum to the Nazis and Godwin your own thread?

I actually recoiled from my computer screen while violently shaking my head in disbelief. I'll give you this, you're entertaining.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Do you know any thing of the Coghlans,Kim and Perry, of Life In a Shoe? And is having so many daughters in row like they do-7-looked on as something of a pity,bad luck,etc?

I don't know them well personally. I remember seeing him around the VF warehouse a lot, but he's an odd guy. Jovial and humorous in a dry way- a tiny bit creepy. It's not seen as bad luck among VF'ers to have all girls. It's seen as easier, in many ways. Because the girls can just stay home and it all looks good. The guys have to grow up and do important things, and if they don't it demonstrates that you're an incapable parent. If a boy grows up he feels entitled to be a little wild. Parents of girls can be bad parents more easily.

[Aurora]

At least in personality. Despite what others may feel about his theological or worldview conclusions, his historical knowledge is incredible. I'm a very questioning and challenging person- a real rebel child- so I always try to poke holes in what people believe, especially as I get close to them. This is true even when I agree with and love the people I get close to. Doug Phillips is the one guy who the closer I get, the more impressed I am, even if I find more idiosyncrasies.

Doug can recite for hours historical facts, and when I look them up to confirm them, he's accurate to the smallest of degrees. I've also been present when he had discussions with contrary historians or scientists in the top of their fields. His conclusions may be wonky by your standards (or mine) but he has actually put in the hours of reading and research before opening his mouth. He's a very intelligent man, even if you feel it's being put to waste. There's a reason so many people look up to him.

Knight, it's kind of you to answer our questions. Thanks! But I am sorry, I do not believe this one. Show me where Doug Phillips has any impressive academic credentials. His presentation of historical "facts" is so completely twisted and incorrect. Comeon... the Titanic stuff? The WWII stuff? It's fantasy.

Re talk and children: lots of talk =/= theology.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Geoff Botkin: a control freak to the point of being mentally ill? Victoria Botkin: depressed??

Your thoughts, please.

Yes to one, no to two. Geoff has promoted his own image to the point where he can't live up to it. He is conflicted, distracted, and not healthy. He had some kind of health problem that the entire family kept quiet, and I thought it was cancer at first. When he moved to Tennessee for 'health reasons' I assumed it wasn't cancer, but I'm still not sure what it is, or if it's been resolved.

Victoria is a bit of a hippie (you all got that one right!) but she is a very happy person. She's the least dominion/build-an-empire oriented of all the Botkins, and perhaps the least American. She seems to miss the New Zealand life somewhat, and the simpler times of relaxing with little Botkin children instead of following the big ones around. But in spite of that, she is far from depressed, or she hides it well.

[treemom]

I dont think he will answer anything I ask.

But anyhow, mr knight, do you think it is weird and even creepy for daughters to shave their fathers?

[treemom]

Yes to one, no to two. Geoff has promoted his own image to the point where he can't live up to it. He is conflicted, distracted, and not healthy. He had some kind of health problem that the entire family kept quiet, and I thought it was cancer at first. When he moved to Tennessee for 'health reasons' I assumed it wasn't cancer, but I'm still not sure what it is, or if it's been resolved.

Vanderbilt in Nashville has a good stem cell transplant program for some cancers. How amusing would it be to have Geoff use stem cell therapy after the laughable baby conference.

[debrand]

Hello Knightinshingingamore. It's good to see you here 8-)

I have a serious question that might sound like I'm making fun of you but I'm not.

Does Doug Philips realize that some of his actions and the manner in which he writes sounds feminine to an outsider? For example, writing about a sweaty, manly romp sounded like someone making fun of a gay porno to many of us. I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ass with this question, I promise. I'm serious.

Will any of the Botkins of Philip children join the military? Many of my family members have been in the military. My sister served several tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. My husband served a tour in Afghanistan. My brother was in the 82nd Airborne and my dad died in Vietnam. The Vision Forum glorification of military service without actually having served any time in the military sometimes rubs me raw.

Have the Botkin girls ever been in love?

[theologygeek]

Yeah. You're so right. Kim and Perry of inashoe.com. Two high level gifted intellects if ever there were any.

[MerryHappy]

Were you ever at Headquarters?

[Guest Anonymous]

I dont think he will answer anything I ask.

But anyhow, mr knight, do you think it is weird and even creepy for daughters to shave their fathers?

Don't feel bad treemom, I'm getting the brush off, too. It's kind of shitty to waltz in here saying "ask me anything" and then ignore the women that get too uppity.

You're quite precious, aren't you, KnightInShiningAmore? Aren't you worried about your purity here in this den of internet iniquity?

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Is voddile bahcaum their token black guy? Will any of the other royalty actually allow their sons to marry jasmine?

I never got quantifiable proof of this, but I think Jasmine had a thing for one of the Botkin boys. She wrote on her blog at one point about wanting to marry someone from an exotic place, and who did an exotic job like filmmaking. Right around this time, the Bauchams and the Botkins were spending a lot of time together, specifically Jasmine and the Botkin Sisters. My friends all snickered at this particular blog post.

Voddie was never explicitly the token black guy. He's a far more powerful leader within the reformed community than Geoff Botkin, but he was never on equal footing theologically with the VF crew. I don't see him around much these days.

[tabitha2]

Thank you.Another one,is their a rivalry,friendly or other wise between VF and ATI? Between Gothard and Phillips?

[Guest Anonymous]

OK. I'm interested.

1) Do you know anything about Doug's relationship to his sister Alexandra? As a jeans-wearing, Tim Curry admiring, Europe-traveling, yoga-practicing woman, she doesn't quite fit his views of how women should act. Does she ever show up at VF events? Any sense of how she feels about her brother?

2) When you say you believe in modern science, do you mean evolution?

3) What is Liberty Phillips really like? What are her interests? Any chance she might fulfill my daydream of her running off to NYC or Paris and becoming a feminist hipster???

4) Anything going on between Joshua Titus and Elizabeth Botkin?

5) How do the girls cope with being told constantly that their role is subservience for the rest of their lives?

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Ha, you beat me to it.

:) I did say I would be writing this from my perspective, though as honestly as possible. Doug is not a jerk. Naive, misguided, living in a fantasy? Maybe. But charismatic, genuine, and doing his best to make the people around him happy, undeniably so. His vision is a little shortsighted, perhaps, but he is good with people.

[treemom]

:) I did say I would be writing this from my perspective, though as honestly as possible. Doug is not a jerk. Naive, misguided, living in a fantasy? Maybe. But charismatic, genuine, and doing his best to make the people around him happy, undeniably so. His vision is a little shortsighted, perhaps, but he is good with people.

Oh I don't know...he doesn't think i am an equal to my husband. That is pretty jerky to me.

[formergothardite]

What does Doug think about LOLDoug? And why can't his interns spell worth a crap?

[debrand]

I never got quantifiable proof of this, but I think Jasmine had a thing for one of the Botkin boys. She wrote on her blog at one point about wanting to marry someone from an exotic place, and who did an exotic job like filmmaking. Right around this time, the Bauchams and the Botkins were spending a lot of time together, specifically Jasmine and the Botkin Sisters. My friends all snickered at this particular blog post.

Voddie was never explicitly the token black guy. He's a far more powerful leader within the reformed community than Geoff Botkin, but he was never on equal footing theologically with the VF crew. I don't see him around much these days.

That is sad. I've always thought that Jasmine was a very smart young lady. She would have made a good wife for one of the Botkin boys. Would the Botkins be friendly to an interracial marriage?

[theologygeek]

Dude. Did you just compare Vision Forum to the Nazis and Godwin your own thread?

This is better than tv. Okay I'll stop being rude now. I'm sorry Knight, carry on.

[KnightInShiningAmore]

Were you a Vision Forum intern? How many interns are assigned to keep an eye on this forum?

Does Doug Phillips have any idea how gay he comes off with all of his talk about sweaty manly romps?

I'm not a vision forum intern, though I applied for it once. My family is not closely knit with VF theologically, nor do we have a lot of money to give. There are only a few internship slots, and they are given out carefully, compared to the hundreds of submissions they get.

I do know a lot of VF interns/former interns, and could tell you a bit what the experience is like.

Doug Phillips, bless his heart, is as clueless as any human being could possibly be about the gayness of those posts. He's a bit like a little kid, he'll say some of the most perverted things with double meanings you could ever imagine. I used to think it was intentional, but after pointing one out to him, he was genuinely shocked and dismayed, and eyed me leerily as though anyone who could know such filth shouldn't be trusted. He's probably right.

[debrand]

:) I did say I would be writing this from my perspective, though as honestly as possible. Doug is not a jerk. Naive, misguided, living in a fantasy? Maybe. But charismatic, genuine, and doing his best to make the people around him happy, undeniably so. His vision is a little shortsighted, perhaps, but he is good with people.

I believe that Doug is charismatic. He wouldn't be able to gain so many fans if he didn't have charisma

[twin2]

This is better than tv. Okay I'll stop being rude now. I'm sorry Knight, carry on.

No kidding. I'm going to go microwave some popcorn! This is the most fun I've had on a Friday in a long time!

BTW: What is Capt. Dougie's official view on microwaves?