Alyssa & John 6: She's Raising Sister Moms

[CaptainFunderpants]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:54 PM, Melissa1977 said:

*Snip*

I don't think megafamilies are raising the young daughters to be helpers at their elder siblings houses. Leave and cleave... It seems that every house has to "built" their own army of helpers. Addallee and Ellie must be working hard to keep Bates house clean, doing laundry for the 10(?) people still at home etc. Kelly is not going to lose her helpers, sending them to other houses. Plus Alyssa does not seem close at all with her little sisters.

Seems like it depends on the family. I'm pretty sure the Lost Girls do a fair bit of sister momming for their niblings, particularly Jordyn with Jessa, and it wouldn't surprise me if we saw more of it with Jenni and Joy once the latest Forsyth child is here.

Side note: Gosh, writing that is heartbreaking. In my heart this is their third, but in regard to needing extra hands this is their second.

Back on the subject of Alyssa: I could see Callie volunteering and Alyssa accepting the help. She seems left out of the Addallee/Ellie twosome and is more of an introvert like Alyssa. 

[Melissa1977]

14 minutes ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Back on the subject of Alyssa: I could see Callie volunteering and Alyssa accepting the help. She seems left out of the Addallee/Ellie twosome and is more of an introvert like Alyssa

Callie is very extroverted. Kelly said she's the most talkative and "crazy" daughter, and very emotional. In addition, she seems very childish, not interested in being "a big girl". I have the feeling that Allie is more trained than Callie and that having Callie at home would mean more work for Alyssa!

Addie, Ellie and Callie (the 3 names together sound as a joke) are absolutely lost girls. They have raised themselves for the most part. Now that they are approaching their teen ages, maybe Kelly will notice them, but the damage is done. 

[Lgirlrocks]

When I was three or four I wanted to be in school like my big brother. We were homeschooled. My mom got me some work books and let me work from the table. Maybe Lexi begged to start school like her older sister? 

[AussieKrissy]

10 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

When I was three or four I wanted to be in school like my big brother. We were homeschooled. My mom got me some work books and let me work from the table. Maybe Lexi begged to start school like her older sister? 

That may be true. But still doesn’t explain why Alyssa would post a pic saying she is aged three and starting kindy. Give her the sign. She can’t read. Write something like. I wanted to hold the sign and copy my big sister. Sssssh I think I’m starting kindy. 

[kmachete14]

I understand the sister-mom thing is really toxic, and we have Jana Duggar to prove it, along with a host of other fundies, but some older sisters DO really love it.

I was volunteering to babysit my own 4 siblings as well as family and friends when I was in third grade, loved putting my little siblings to sleep and changing their diapers, weirdly would wish people would think I was their mom when I would take them on walks or to the park in the stroller, taught my siblings to read, cooked for them . . . I loved the responsibility (and probably the feeling of being in charge lol). 

If I wasn't watching my own siblings, I was playing dollhouse, and then later, the Sims. And then I became a teacher (after years of playing "school" with my siblings as well). Being a teacher was the fulfillment of a life-long dream. 

So I guess I'm not ringing the alarm bells just yet for Allie just because she dressed her sisters and made breakfast and Alyssa posted it one time. To me that's normal older sister behavior. 

If Allie starts having to miss out on regular experiences to stay home and be the second mom, then I would be concerned. But so far, she still seems to be swimming with her cousin, playing outside, "doing school," and doing the rest of the mundane stuff Alyssa procures for them. 

Idk. I could just be looking at it through MY lense and not the historical Bates' /fundie family red flag for sister mom lense but again, idk. 

[nausicaa]

On 8/15/2020 at 6:38 AM, mstee said:

Not sure how the kids managed, I was just going off what she said in her post. I hope she was exaggerating because poor Allie shouldn’t have to manage two toddlers on top of being a very young child herself. I know many parents have serious illnesses (my mom had chronic illness throughout my childhood that kept her in bed) but continuing to have kids knowing you’re getting sicker with each one is a bit crazy IMO. She knows she has 3 other young ones to look after. One again, the kids lose out in a situation. 

Also, continuing to choose homeschooling when you're getting sicker with each pregnancy (to the point of being bed-ridden for months on end) with no plans of stopping also seems like wildly irresponsible educational neglect. 

I don't know why her non-Gothard social media fan girls don't see more of these glaring issues. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Also, continuing to choose homeschooling when you're getting sicker with each pregnancy (to the point of being bed-ridden for months on end) with no plans of stopping also seems like wildly irresponsible educational neglect. 

I don't know why her non-Gothard social media fan girls don't see more of these glaring issues. 

The same reason humpers don't recognize the Gil and Kelly's neglect....they can't see past the shiny, pretty children.  

[formergothardite]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:57 AM, kmachete14 said:

So I guess I'm not ringing the alarm bells just yet for Allie just because she dressed her sisters and made breakfast and Alyssa posted it one time. To me that's normal older sister behavior.

Normal older sister behavior is a five year old trying to dress her little sisters and cooking breakfast. But this post was Alyssa bragging about how her hard work finally paid off and this is a proud "mom moment" because of that. If she had to put "hard work" into getting Allie to do these things, this it isn't something she is doing on her own, it is something forced on her. This isn't fun, normal behavior, it is Alyssa continuing the fundie cycle of oppressing young children and forcing them to shoulder the work load of their parents. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Normal older sister behavior is a five year old trying to dress her little sisters and cooking breakfast. But this post was Alyssa bragging about how her hard work finally paid off and this is a proud "mom moment" because of that. If she had to put "hard work" into getting Allie to do these things, this it isn't something she is doing on her own, it is something forced on her. This isn't fun, normal behavior, it is Alyssa continuing the fundie cycle of oppressing young children and forcing them to shoulder the work load of their parents. 

This.  It's the training and expectation that's the problem.

I am over a decade younger than my sister and when she was a teen she worked part time in a shop that sold clothes for kids.  She'd buy me little sundresses and hats out of her own money because she thought they were cute and loved dressing me up but she never had to, and lord knows I had more than enough clothes at home.

That's the difference between being trained to be a sister mom and just being a big sister.  

[Vivi_music]

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

This.  It's the training and expectation that's the problem.

I am over a decade younger than my sister and when she was a teen she worked part time in a shop that sold clothes for kids.  She'd buy me little sundresses and hats out of her own money because she thought they were cute and loved dressing me up but she never had to, and lord knows I had more than enough clothes at home.

That's the difference between being trained to be a sister mom and just being a big sister.  

Exactly. I am also the youngest and got a big age gap with my siblings (8, 10 and 13 years apart). I know from family anecdotes that my eldest brother who was 13 when I was born really helped take care of me: putting me to sleep for naps, giving me baths, feeding me, changing my diaper, etc. because he loved it.

My other siblings loved playing with me and all, like you play with a younger sibling, but didn't do caregiving. So my Mom never forced them (because they were 8 and 10 and allowed to... you know, be kids!). Also note that my older brother did a lot of caregiving, not my sister... which I bet is far from the reality of fundieland. Alex simply did it because he loved it, not because it had to raise his baby sister.

Cute anecdote: when Alex became a father years later, he was the one who gave his first-born his first bath. My SIL was too nervous and he had done it a lot when I was a baby, so felt a lot more at ease.

[AussieKrissy]

45 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

Exactly. I am also the youngest and got a big age gap with my siblings (8, 10 and 13 years apart). I know from family anecdotes that my eldest brother who was 13 when I was born really helped take care of me: putting me to sleep for naps, giving me baths, feeding me, changing my diaper, etc. because he loved it.

My other siblings loved playing with me and all, like you play with a younger sibling, but didn't do caregiving. So my Mom never forced them (because they were 8 and 10 and allowed to... you know, be kids!). Also note that my older brother did a lot of caregiving, not my sister... which I bet is far from the reality of fundieland. Alex simply did it because he loved it, not because it had to raise his baby sister.

Cute anecdote: when Alex became a father years later, he was the one who gave his first-born his first bath. My SIL was too nervous and he had done it a lot when I was a baby, so felt a lot more at ease.

Nawww gives me all the nice feels. 

[Deanie]

So I just watched Alyssa's 'We went back to School' video and I don't know where to start.  I feel so sorry for those children, sitting and staring at a screen every day with zero real time interaction- the exact opposite of what you should be doing to foster a love of learning.  And starting children as young as Zoey is nuts- they might parrot back letters and numbers but there is no understanding.  All the research points to little or no screen time for children and learning to read when they are a little older yields better results.  It all just seems so unhealthy.  Homeschooling can be wonderful if done properly - this approach is just lazy and depressing. 

[princessmahina]

They have a nice schoolroom. It’s a shame Alyssa has focused her energy on the aesthetics instead of the substance of homeschooling. 

[slp]

If Alyssa is using Abeka, they have a K3, K4, and then K 5 program. K 3is essentially pre-K 

Edited August 23, 2020 by slp

[Dominionatrix]

If you look closely at Lexi’s first-day-of-school sign it says she is starting K4. 

[indianabones]

6 hours ago, Deanie said:

I feel so sorry for those children, sitting and staring at a screen every day with zero real time interaction- the exact opposite of what you should be doing to foster a love of learning. 

She kept repeating "It's just like being in a real classroom!" and I kept yelling at the screen "But the kids can't ask the teacher questions!"

[AussieKrissy]

7 hours ago, indianabones said:

She kept repeating "It's just like being in a real classroom!" and I kept yelling at the screen "But the kids can't ask the teacher questions!"

Except it’s not. You are putting your kids in a bubble so they only think and act like you. 

[Mrs Ms]

These 2 are really upsetting to me because I see SO much wasted potential. Any interaction between John and Alyssa seems to me like they are very in love and genuinely enjoy each other. Any interaction with the kids seems the same. Yet they are doing E.X.A.C.T.L.Y the same shit parenting that their parents did with more screen time and shorter/tighter clothing. With them more than any other of the Bates/Duggar couples I think if they had more positive and engaged role models they would have been pretty good parents. 
Instead we have the fucking assembly line, factory mass production shitstorm they learnt from their own sperm donors/incubators ?

[neuroticcat]

6 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Except it’s not. You are putting your kids in a bubble so they only think and act like you. 

Yes. Abeka falls in the indoctrination camp imo

Imagine choosing the worst of covid remote schooling options from a biased curriculum and thinking it’s best for your children. Or maybe not even knowing enough to question it at all.

Edited August 24, 2020 by neuroticcat

[OHFL2009]

6 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Yes. Abeka falls in the indoctrination camp imo

I recently found out that our neighbors use Abeka to homeschool their kids, and I was floored. They (the parents) drink, cuss like sailors, have mentioned smoking weed, and the only religious anything I've heard from them is a very rare Facebook post around a religious holiday, like a picture with a related bible verse at Christmas or Easter. 

[nolongerIFBx]

On 8/23/2020 at 5:22 AM, Deanie said:

So I just watched Alyssa's 'We went back to School' video and I don't know where to start.  I feel so sorry for those children, sitting and staring at a screen every day with zero real time interaction- the exact opposite of what you should be doing to foster a love of learning.  And starting children as young as Zoey is nuts- they might parrot back letters and numbers but there is no understanding.  All the research points to little or no screen time for children and learning to read when they are a little older yields better results.  It all just seems so unhealthy.  Homeschooling can be wonderful if done properly - this approach is just lazy and depressing. 

Yet as far as an accredited education, Alyssa is doing better for her children than her parents did. Only the DVD program at ABeka is accredited. If the parents want to teach using the books, then the education is not accredited. I know several parents who lamented using the DVDs because they did not feel like that was truly schooling their kids but if they wanted them to be able to go to college they had to use the DVDs.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I would be worried about accredited kindergarten.

[ophelia]

On 8/23/2020 at 12:22 PM, Deanie said:

Homeschooling can be wonderful if done properly - this approach is just lazy and depressing. 

This sums up a lot of the homeschooling we see. Zsu used to be really creative back in the day when she had only four or five kids. She put time and effort into the learning materials and did great, age-appropriate crafts with her kiddos.

Most of the Bates seem to be quite lazy and before the TV-money they lead a rather depressing life in poverty. Yet still they felt superior. Fundie logic. I thought Alyssa married that early to escape that, yet it she unfortunately isn't educated enough to realize that their life might look similar in a few years if they don't make some hard decisions now.

[Deleorean88mph]

The school room set up looks way too distracting. At least station the girls in 3 separate areas. And how long per day are Zoey's letter videos? She can just learn the same thing next year. 

[FaithAndReason]

How can Alyssa say it's like a real classroom when she has never been in one? Further, if you are so sure that homeschooling is superior to us heathens that attended classroom school, why in the heck are you trying to make your girls feel like they are in a real classroom??? 

[AussieKrissy]

36 minutes ago, FaithAndReason said:

How can Alyssa say it's like a real classroom when she has never been in one? Further, if you are so sure that homeschooling is superior to us heathens that attended classroom school, why in the heck are you trying to make your girls feel like they are in a real classroom??? 

This and all this! coming here to say the same thing