Alyssa & John 5: She's Raising Fashion Conscious Girls

[marmalade]

10 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

10 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I looked at the post and it does not say a week. Or I didn't find it.

 

It was probably John's post. They both posted with the couch full of snacks.

[FighterJet]

On 5/19/2020 at 6:10 PM, FluffySnowball said:

You two might very well be right, @JanasTattooParlor and @kmachete14. I was only speculating and would be happy if I were wrong. But with these people (fundies in general), whenever it comes to the topic of raising children, I can’t stop thinking of corporal punishment. Hopefully I’m often mistaken! 

Unfortunately, what you say can't be fully ruled out: John and Alyssa may not be as fundamentalist as their parents when they were their same age, but they were raised under IFB tenets, where the rod often plays a mind-blowingly central role. The rod is so central that in extreme cases it basically becomes the only conflict resolutor between parents and children. It's ridiculous, it really paints a very culturally lowly picture of these people.

We don't need to look far to realize that the practice of beating 2 year olds into sitting quietly at church is pretty much widespread among homeschooling NIFB moms. They openly talk about this, and exchange "training" tips, on their shows and social media. What they do would be comical - in a "I can't believe they're really doing that" way - if it weren't so tragic and disturbing: they ask their kids to sit quietly in front of a mock function at home, then, if one of them as much as moves a little, the parent quickly administers a swat. That's how some NIFB and IFB parents train their kids to sit in church: like circus animals of past times. For people who claim to love children so much, some quiverfulls sure do employ as many strategies as possible to minimize the amount of time and effort they put into raising them. Super long nap times, astonishingly early bedtimes, Ford assembly line chore distribution, draconian rules about toy usage and storage, sister-mommying, toddler "sitting still in church" training, are all done with the parents' convenience in mind, in some cases at least. 

I believe most of the fundamentalist moms I have in mind are secretly aware of the wrongness of their ruthless corporal punishment ways. If they weren't, they wouldn't employ the hushed tones they usually do around the technicalities of their "discipline". I believe their gut tells them to feel ashamed. But a one-size-fits-all, over-employed Proverbs 19:18 is all they need to feel divinely entitled about their abuse of power. Another reason why I think some of these parents keep beating their children has to do with the way they were raised themselves: if they were beaten, it would be 1000 times easier, psychologically, for them to say "I turned out fine" than to face the reality that their parents might've been wrong, with all the consequences such an admission could entail.

Back to John and Alyssa - I really, really hope they haven't used the rod to teach the girls how to sit during church, and maybe they haven't. It helps that they said "teach" and not "train", maybe to distance themselves from the circus animal mindset. They aren't that rabid after all. Alyssa seems tired lately, despite everything I don't think she's a bad person, and the fact that she was in charge of cooking for her huge family for years really helps put some of the things she does into perspective. I sometimes think she found refuge in John.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by FighterJet

[AliceInFundyland]

The "hushed tones" is a whole component of the method. Any of the fundies who employ this say that they do it with quiet voices and a loving spirit. They purport to never discipline in anger and devote time to calming down first.

I don't think, sadly, they know to be ashamed. At least not yet. Look at John and Chelsy Maxwell's kid. Little Axton didn't know how to smash his smash cake. Chelsy was pleased to see her "training him not to touch his food" was working.

Of course they do what their parents did. But, it takes a lot of time to move beyond that and see how it damaged them. And then their kids. I think a better way to think of this to hope that they'll have kids that won't conform - and for whatever reason they'll realize that the one size fits all approach of their parents DOES NOT WORK. At that point, we can hope that love will prevail over the training and discipline.

[FighterJet]

13 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I think a better way to think of this to hope that they'll have kids that won't conform - and for whatever reason they'll realize that the one size fits all approach of their parents DOES NOT WORK. At that point, we can hope that love will prevail over the training and discipline.

That makes sense, a non conforming kid. Although, for indoctrinated parents to reconsider their ways, it would have to be a child who's not walking out of the cult as soon as they turn of age, or else they'd just label the kid as "reprobate" and cut ties so as not to influence siblings.

And by "hushed tones", I meant that some of the NIFB parents are aware that beatings are considered to be a borderline topic, at best, so much so that they realize they can't talk about them with too much detail online. Some claim to be exhausted by the constant beatings (wouldn't that be a sign that it's not working? They're so weird). Yet, these very same people have no problem explaining how they unquestioningly obey and submit to their husbands or do other controversial things. That's just something that can be observed.

Edited May 29, 2020 by FighterJet
add sentences.

[AliceInFundyland]

In the context of this thread - Allie might want to dye her hair purple and shave half of it off when she is 13. I would like to think that Alyssa might be inspired to consider how her own fashion choices were severely affected by her parents.

Allie might not be considering her faith at that point. It could just be the hair. Those are the kind of little shifts that I see leading them away from their parents extremely judgemental behavior.

[Perrierwithlemon]

I've held back from commenting on this, but (since we're still on this topic) there are non-violent ways to get kids to sit through church. When I was a kid, I HATED Sunday school, so I didn't mind sitting in church. Also, some kids find it easier to sit quietly than others. My mom always encouraged me to do something while I was sitting in church like coloring, drawing, origami/paper airplanes, small, handheld puzzles (like 15 puzzle), reading the bible, or note-taking (when I got older). It could be possible that Alyssa could be training her kids to sit by "bribing" them with coloring pages or encouraging quiet play. I simply hope that this is the case because I don't wish spankings on any child. 

[treehugger]

With experts estimating between 70-80% of Americans approving of corporal discipline (in 2018 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/574978/) I’m not holding my breath that the Bates children aren’t spanking their kids.  

Spanking is very much a generational curse that is incredibly hard to break and requires a lot of intentional parenting.  Seeing how lazy Alyssa is about homeschooling, I strongly doubt she is cultivating the intentional kind of relationship with her kids needed to break that cycle.  I may be wrong, but I like I said, I’m not holding my breath.  

[neuroticcat]

In any social media interaction I’ve ever had on spanking, the parents who spank are proud of it...and the ones who speak loudest are the “rod” group.

They refuse to acknowledge its a made up Bible interpretation and often point to their controlled well behaved children as proof. 

I think the only whispering happens among those who try and be ”wise” around, in this case, fans - or friends who would be appalled at fundie child training.
 

I hate spanking so much. 

[princessmahina]

1 hour ago, treehugger said:

With experts estimating between 70-80% of Americans approving of corporal discipline (in 2018 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/574978/) I’m not holding my breath that the Bates children aren’t spanking their kids.  

Spanking is very much a generational curse that is incredibly hard to break and requires a lot of intentional parenting.  Seeing how lazy Alyssa is about homeschooling, I strongly doubt she is cultivating the intentional kind of relationship with her kids needed to break that cycle.  I may be wrong, but I like I said, I’m not holding my breath.  

That statistic hurts my heart. My baby frustrates me endlessly (he threw a tantrum and literally flung his poop like a monkey) but I can’t imagine hitting him for..being a kid. Ugh. 

[FighterJet]

On 5/30/2020 at 2:43 AM, Perrierwithlemon said:

I've held back from commenting on this, but (since we're still on this topic) there are non-violent ways to get kids to sit through church. When I was a kid, I HATED Sunday school, so I didn't mind sitting in church. Also, some kids find it easier to sit quietly than others. My mom always encouraged me to do something while I was sitting in church like coloring, drawing, origami/paper airplanes, small, handheld puzzles (like 15 puzzle), reading the bible, or note-taking (when I got older). It could be possible that Alyssa could be training her kids to sit by "bribing" them with coloring pages or encouraging quiet play. I simply hope that this is the case because I don't wish spankings on any child. 

I would be inclined to believe that most children of every religion worldwide learn to sit through a religious function without violence, except for the fundie children of any religion. 

It's lame that fundies would whip their kids into church attendance and then tell them that they go to church because it's "joyous" and "happy".

On 5/30/2020 at 5:08 AM, neuroticcat said:

In any social media interaction I’ve ever had on spanking, the parents who spank are proud of it...and the ones who speak loudest are the “rod” group.

They refuse to acknowledge its a made up Bible interpretation and often point to their controlled well behaved children as proof. 

I think the only whispering happens among those who try and be ”wise” around, in this case, fans - or friends who would be appalled at fundie child training.
 

I hate spanking so much. 

The louder they express their pride, the farther they get from ever questioning their ways. I feel like it's a vicious circle: if they did acknowledge the interpretation, their castle of lies would crumble, and they'd collapse under the rubble of what ifs, regret and festering wounds from their own pasts.

[FighterJet]

Alyssa and John brought the girls to the beach for a Bates family meetup. 

Alyssa posted some beach pictures, then removed them, then posted them again.

Reading comments, I realized that Alyssa removed them because some sanctimonious fans apparently couldn't stand the scandalous view of shirtless brother Warden, or something like that. How prurient!

[JanasTattooParlor]

42 minutes ago, FighterJet said:

Alyssa and John brought the girls to the beach for a Bates family meetup. 

Alyssa posted some beach pictures, then removed them, then posted them again.

Reading comments, I realized that Alyssa removed them because some sanctimonious fans apparently couldn't stand the scandalous view of shirtless brother Warden, or something like that. How prurient!

See I thought she removed them because she realized that she’d get backlash for posting about her family when yesterday was #blackouttuesday, and instead posted the black square with the Bible verse. She replied to a comment that asked about the pictures being taken down saying “I’ll post them tomorrow” like she realized that yesterday wasn’t the day to post them. 

[FighterJet]

15 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

See I thought she removed them because she realized that she’d get backlash for posting about her family when yesterday was #blackouttuesday, and instead posted the black square with the Bible verse. She replied to a comment that asked about the pictures being taken down saying “I’ll post them tomorrow” like she realized that yesterday wasn’t the day to post them. 

Oh right makes sense. I didn't realize she posted them yesterday for the first time, I just saw everybody else commenting on the shirtless picture of her brother and, you know, you never know what lengths fundies may go. Good she's been sensitive about black out tuesday.

[LillyP]

Yes she deleted them because of black out tuesday, but commented on someone's question saying she'd repost. She did repost and the shirtless pic is there.

Meanwhile...bates boys hanging out shirtless on the beach, younger daughters wearing tank tops instead of modest swimwear, and Alyssa wearing a regular bathing suit around her family! I predict that within 5 years we're going to see bates kids who still live at home being able to wear pants and basically do whatever they want. I could be reaching, but I think they are fighting hard to seem as mainstream as they can.

[SassyPants]

Easy money stream over everything else, including Jesus.

[faraway]

They just want to enjoy all the freedom and enjoyments the world has to offer while still wanting to be seen as "godly". The Bates' are steadily losing their fundie status, there will not be much there that sets them apart. Unless one of the kids has 15+ kids they will diasappear into insignificance...

[AussieKrissy]

I love mega fundie families for the genetic aspect. I love seeing how similarities play out. Hat Girl on right addallee or Ellie (???) is a clone for Alyssa and Bates howler m on key equivalent boy is too. Callie is a clone of her cousin Kat and her little sister. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

[Melissa1977]

8 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Hat Girl on right addallee or Ellie (???) is a clone for Alyssa and Bates howler m on key equivalent boy is too. Callie is a clone of her cousin Kat

She's Addalee, she looks a lot like Alyssa and Kelly, and maybe like Michaela, too?. I never before thought that Alyssa and Kelly were so similar, but maybe it is because Alyssa is so thin compared to Kelly and it makes their faces look a bit different. But Addalee resembles both of them. 

Callie is a clone of her cousins ( who are basically 4 cloned girls themselves). 

 

[front hugs > duggs]

I remember seeing a baby photo of Callie and how much it resembled the baby Allie Jane photos at the time. They literally looked so much alike as babies. 

[SassyPants]

So live church has happened for the Websters. Per IG, Alyssa is in a dark, off the shoulders, what appears to be velvet dress. Seriously, for a weekly, morning, Sunday service in June? I will never understand these people.

[Johannah]

It’s really a shame that Alyssa of all people missed out on prom and sorority mixers and living in a city going out to bars with friends. As a fundie mom of 3 in her 20s who enjoys dressing up, her only outlet now is church and the occasional date night with John, during which she has worn floor length gowns to casual restaurants. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Johannah
adding info

[Tangy Bee]

On 6/6/2020 at 7:53 AM, faraway said:

They just want to enjoy all the freedom and enjoyments the world has to offer while still wanting to be seen as "godly". The Bates' are steadily losing their fundie status, there will not be much there that sets them apart. Unless one of the kids has 15+ kids they will diasappear into insignificance...

Sadly until they ditch courtship and saving 1st kiss, they will be still considered fundies. That's how they all got famous. Glad we are witnessing them evolve. What's fascinating is there are a new generation of fans who don't even know about the matching prairie dresses or the layered blouses. And forgive me, but Gil looks adorable in those green shorts. Have any of us seen JB Duggar in shorts? I've even seen Steve Maxwell wear shorts. It was brief, but he was wearing them.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Tangy Bee

[AussieKrissy]

4 hours ago, Johannah said:

It’s really a shame that Alyssa of all people missed out on prom and sorority mixers and living in a city going out to bars with friends. As a fundie mom of 3 in her 20s who enjoys dressing up, her only outlet now is church and the occasional date night with John, during which she has worn floor length gowns to casual restaurants. 

Maybe If she had of had more of a well rounded childhood sports academic etc. bible, babies and playing dress ups, might not be her only interests. I can see your point about her liking to pop out for after work drinks or a Friday night bar hop in her new cutest outfit.... sigh different life. 

[front hugs > duggs]

I moved to the Orlando area in April. I shit you not, the nearest highway is I-429, AKA Daniel Webster Parkway. ?. I was trying to look up a salon down here (not to go to now, but when I feel comfortable enough to go) and the hair artist featured Alyssa on her homepage. I. Can’t. Even. 

[Johannah]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Maybe If she had of had more of a well rounded childhood sports academic etc. bible, babies and playing dress ups, might not be her only interests. I can see your point about her liking to pop out for after work drinks or a Friday night bar hop in her new cutest outfit.... sigh different life. 

I agree. And if she’d had earlier opportunities to dress up, she might not be so obsessed with doing it now.