Alyssa & John 5: She's Raising Fashion Conscious Girls

[DalmatianCat]

They also mentioned in their first book that a cell tower was put on their property and they payment from that alone takes care of most of their living expenses. While they didn’t ever present as “wealthy” before the show I do agree that JB was probably more interested in investments than material things and they had a lot more assets than most people would have guessed. My parents were like that...growing up and listening to them talk I assumed money was tight and that was why they emphasized saving, budgeting, and hard work. Looking back I realize they were just frugal and focused on saving for the future because they have an excellent lifestyle, have paid off several houses, put all their kids through college debt-free, and travel around the world for leisure. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

They also mentioned in their first book that a cell tower was put on their property and they payment from that alone takes care of most of their living expenses. While they didn’t ever present as “wealthy” before the show I do agree that JB was probably more interested in investments than material things and they had a lot more assets than most people would have guessed. My parents were like that...growing up and listening to them talk I assumed money was tight and that was why they emphasized saving, budgeting, and hard work. Looking back I realize they were just frugal and focused on saving for the future because they have an excellent lifestyle, have paid off several houses, put all their kids through college debt-free, and travel around the world for leisure. 

I had forgotten about the cell tower. That would explain a good potion of their steady income. 

[princessmahina]

Jim Bob has said he worked In a grocery store in high school and before he met Michelle. Living at home, he probably didn’t have much in the way of expenses and was able to save a lot, which explains how he was possibly able to put an okay down payment on a cheap house. 
 

I read their first book years ago. I may have to pull it out again and skim over it. 

[Tangy Bee]

The Websters were dressed for the summer today??

[QuiverFullofBooks]

On 6/13/2020 at 6:58 PM, SassyPants said:

But didn’t he also cash in a six digit savings on a failed bid on a senate seat? How does that jive with buy used and blah, blah...she couldn’t get a new washer, despite having eleventy kids, yet he could blow a wad on a whimsical failure? Decisions like that do not jive with either conservative spending or easily amassing money.

It wasn’t exactly savings, it was part of the money they got for selling their old house while they were building the current house. The site of the old house is on the grounds of the current Cross Church, and the church seems to have been a very motivated buyer.

Also, I don’t recall any story of not being able to afford a washing machine. If they did buy used washing machines, it doesn’t seem to have been a problem.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 6/13/2020 at 4:02 PM, SassyPants said:

Funny, none of his kids have been able to replicate the success.

They've never had to.  I do wonder which is the kids has it in them to hustle like JB if it was necessary to put food on the table?

Jessa maybe?  I think Jill would work hard to feed the boys if she had to, not sure if she'd be able to muster the ruthlessness of her parents.

But him keeping them in an extended period of adolescence even when one of his kids has 6 kids of his own stunted whatever potential they may have had.  And for some of them I don't see a whole lot of potential to start with.  

[Kailash]

On 6/13/2020 at 4:02 PM, SassyPants said:

We bought our first  home for $120,000*in 1982, before JB and M were even married. Interest rates at that time were 12%. Our mortgage was 1200/month, to live in an OK house in a very middle class neighborhood in the Bay Area of CA. I know they were in Arkansas, but the math still doesn’t work for me. They bought a home, cars and a business , had multiple kids, and were living debt free? Where was the money coming from? They were basically kids.

Whatever they’re doing or whatever their secret is, EVERYONE should be doing it. Instead of talking about God, JB should be selling his get rich before you’re 25 secret. Funny, none of his kids have been able to replicate the success.
 

The house was 20 years old and a bank repo.

In 1980 the median house price was $61,600 in Arkansas. I have found that comparing prices of western states/areas  (especially in the SF bay area) with prices in the midwest is truly flabbergasting. 
For instance, my niece and her bf live near SF. They pay $3,500 a month to rent a one bedroom apartment. Here in Kansas, we rented a 2 bedroom apartment for $425 a month. The difference is huge.

[neuroticcat]

17 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

 

Also, I don’t recall any story of not being able to afford a washing machine. If they did buy used washing machines, it doesn’t seem to have been a problem.

I only remember it vaguely so I may have it wrong, but Michelle was talking about how JB always took any profit and invested it in the next great deal. So I think the example she gave was that she really wanted a new washing machine (instead of making do with old used one) but he decided to buy some construction machinery at auction and it ended up being a great payoff.

Bur it’s been a long time since Zi read the first book ...so definitely could be wrong.

[LacyMay]

13 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

They've never had to.  I do wonder which is the kids has it in them to hustle like JB if it was necessary to put food on the table?

Jessa maybe?  I think Jill would work hard to feed the boys if she had to, not sure if she'd be able to muster the ruthlessness of her parents.

Joseph and John David could have potential for work ethic neither seems afraid of work. I can see them being ruthless enough too especially since they have already shown they are willing to manipulate the rules (MEDICorps) 

I just don't think they have the inherent drive. I think Jim Bob was shaped by hearing about how his parents didn't always have enough and it gave him a desire for more. I don't think the Duggar kids have that same thirst.

[FrumpyAtheist]

Who really knows what any of these kids would have done or accomplished with a proper education? It's hard to judge their ambition when they are so brainwashed into such a limited set of "career" choices and no intellectual curiosity.
 

I still think Jill would and could have been a great nurse if she weren't in that family. And who knows which of the others might have had drive or ambition. We'll never know, really.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by FrumpyAtheist

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, LacyMay said:

think Jim Bob was shaped by hearing about how his parents didn't always have enough and it gave him a desire for more. I don't think the Duggar kids have that same thirst

Jim Bob's parents could have been poor for a time, but I bet he and his sister weren't feed grifted RICE and ONLY RICE for days, because "frugality". What's the point of housing investments and political dreams if it means not properly feed your children? 

Jim Bob has always been the king of that house. His money is used to please him, not to give his children opportunities or careers or real business. Maybe his parents were poor or his father was lazy or whatever, but he had way better childhood (an education!) than his own children.

[just_ordinary]

4 hours ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

Who really knows what any of these kids would have done or accomplished with a proper education? It's hard to judge their ambition when they are so brainwashed into such a limited set of "career" choices and no intellectual curiosity.
 

I still think Jill would and could have been a great nurse if she weren't in that family. And who knows which of the others might have had drive or ambition. We'll never know, really.

 

I agree. It’s not just that they haven’t had the opportunity, there is also the advantage of living in the company of people that value work ethic and/or education. There are unspoken expectations that unconsciously push you in certain directions. So I say it’s more than just having the very real but kind of abstract options but also having some connection points to it. 
Jill, is often characterised a people pleaser around here. If that is true, she might have risen even higher than we imagine, because she would have tried to fulfill subconscious, deeply ingrained expectations. People are capable of a lot, even more if they find themselves just in the right environment (thinking of all those lazy, entitled and mediocre intelligent people that get pretty good university degrees just because they are comfortable in certain environments and get the right support). 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

Alyssa and John apparently have a YouTube channel and talk about her heart issues here:

 

[SassyPants]

18 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Alyssa and John apparently have a YouTube channel and talk about her heart issues here:

 

I listened. I feel for her. I have sinus tachycardia that started in my early 20s. My condition was stable and untreated until I was approaching 60, at which time I had many episodes of what Alyssa described, and man that makes you so tired. I can’t imagine going through it with 3 little kids. Since I never developed SVT (thus far), I haven’t required surgery. I do take a beta blocker and am at risk for A-Fib. My condition is genetic. I have known several people who have had SVT and were treated with ablation therapy similar to Alyssa. 

[FrumpyAtheist]

I listened too. I thought it was interesting that she mentioned it was her second cousin who works in the medical field (presumably as a nurse or doctor?) who helped them find the right doc and get a diagnosis. So, they have a female medical professional in the family who changed their lives. How can this not influence them to believe that it's ok for people, including women, to go to school and study things outside the Bible? Surely this showed them that studying real knowledge isn't evil and in fact saves lives?

It really bothers me that they are so happy to leech off of everyone else's productivity and expertise when it's convenient, yet they teach their children that following those paths is wrong. Such hypocrites.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

6 hours ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

I listened too. I thought it was interesting that she mentioned it was her second cousin who works in the medical field (presumably as a nurse or doctor?) who helped them find the right doc and get a diagnosis. So, they have a female medical professional in the family who changed their lives. How can this not influence them to believe that it's ok for people, including women, to go to school and study things outside the Bible? Surely this showed them that studying real knowledge isn't evil and in fact saves lives?

It really bothers me that they are so happy to leech off of everyone else's productivity and expertise when it's convenient, yet they teach their children that following those paths is wrong. Such hypocrites.

I bet that they are grateful to the second cousin but also feel they have a higher calling from Jesus. (Insert eyeroll here.)

[SassyPants]

One of the things that stood out to me during the video was that they both mentioned being very private people. I wonder how they reconcile selling their and the girls’ private family moments, personal lives and anonymity away? Nothing private about that at all.

[haroldtheyrefundies]

Alyssa and John posted the second part of the video series about Alyssa's health. They mainly talked about Alyssa's first surgery. Typically if someone would go through Alyssa's surgery it would take 3 hours to do the surgery, but for Alyssa her surgery was 6 hours long. That was because Alyssa had more arrhythmias than normal. Most people with her condition have just 2 or 3 arrhythemias, but Alyssa had 7. After surgery Alyssa had a really hard time recovering. She said that this surgery and recovery was harder than having her children and she pointed out that she had all of her kids natural with no paid meds. The doctor told her that most people won't need a second surgery and that the first surgery fixes the problem, but because Alyssa had a rare case she would need a second surgery. They also opened up about how this time of their life made them doubt their faith, but afterwards they said it made their faith stronger. They saw the surgeries as a bad thing and wondered why God was putting them through this, and Alyssa even talked about how that she felt like she was doing everything a good Christian would do and yet she was still going through this. This time of their life changed their perspectives on life in a good way. One thing i should point out is that Gill and Kelly did fly out for Alyssa's surgery, but they didn't stay for very long. Gill had some event so he only stayed for the actual surgery, but Kelly stayed a little bit longer and stayed with Alyssa while she was in the recovery unit. 

Here is the video link if you want to watch it: 

 

[llucie]

Alyssa and John are awfull storytellers, i had to watch it at 1.5 speed and i still got annoyed. It also ended without a resolution, i guess we should wait for part 3 with another 30 minutes of babble.

Edited June 20, 2020 by llucie
.

[Johannah]

I haven’t watched it, but are they really so sheltered as to think that the world is a meritocracy? I genuinely do not understand how fundies get tripped up on the “why do bad things happen to good people?” question. I know atheists who have struggled with this question too. It’s just not even remotely how life works, religious or not. It’s not even a component of Christian theology. Are they really assuming that anyone experiencing misfortune must be living a deviant life and therefore deserving of their fate? I guess that makes the question of how they can justify being Republicans make a little more sense ?

[AussieKrissy]

Bar set pretty low. Ummmmmm Alyssa most dads do silly things like that. Major eye role when I read that. 

[catlady]

Alyssa, every dad I’ve ever known has done this or something similar.  
sheesh.

[llg1234]

To be fair: when you have Gil as a father, the bar is probably pretty low.

Edited June 22, 2020 by llg1234

[Mrs Ms]

That was my first thought. Just how many miserable examples of “dads” has she seen in her life that this is revolutionary information for her? ?

Can’t think of a single one in my generation who HASN’T done this and the only exception in my parents generation was if the dad was much older than the mum and no longer able to because of fitness/health/(dis)ability reasons.

Once again, poor, poor fundie kids

[neuroticcat]

I think it’s good if she’s questioning meritocracy. Maybe it will begin to crack the fundie ideology.