Josh, Anna, M'Kids 21: This Thread Can Drink Now

[Vivi_music]

58 minutes ago, LucilleJ said:

Marquise is a name that always irk me because it's french for the wife of a Marquis so naming a baby boys that way is weird (as would be naming a baby boy Reine - Queen, Contesse - Countess...).

Marquise is used in the US has a boy's name? I would never have guessed! Yeah French-speaking person here and when I read @BernRul's original post, I was like: ''ugh cute original name for a girl''.

But hey, what is the point of gendered names anyways? ('m not joking... I wouldn't want my kid to grow up thinking their name defines their gender identity. It's their choice to make once they are able to decide.)

[LucilleJ]

45 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

Marquise is used in the US has a boy's name? I would never have guessed! Yeah French-speaking person here and when I read @BernRul's original post, I was like: ''ugh cute original name for a girl''.

But hey, what is the point of gendered names anyways? ('m not joking... I wouldn't want my kid to grow up thinking their name defines their gender identity. It's their choice to make once they are able to decide.)

50-cent child is named Marquise that's where I saw it. Such a precious name for the son of a rapper is weird but there probably a family history behind it (at least I hope so).

[Cleopatra7]

In the Jim Crow South, black adults were not given titles like Mr., Mrs., or Miss by whites. If they bothered to use your name at all, they’d just call you by your first name or if you were slightly older and on paternalistic terms, you might be called Aunt or Uncle (this is where we get Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben from). A workaround this was to given black children names associated with royalty or aristocracy like Prince, Queen, King, Earl, Baron, etc., since the reasoning was if white people were going to just call you by your first name, they might as well just call you King or Queen. I assume Marquis or Marquise comes from this tradition.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Cleopatra7

[SorenaJ]

2 hours ago, BernRul said:

 than what restrictions would you propose we adopt? 

This is just my personal opinion, but I don’t think titles should be allowed to be used as names. Titles such as Princess, King, Emperor, Duchess, Prince, General, Major, God, Czar, Judge, Bishop, Majesty, Knight, Master, Christ, Messiah, Minister, Mister, President, Lord, Duke, Baron just sit wrong with me and I don’t think they should be allowed. 

 

I don’t agree with the German name law, that says that surnames can’t be used as first names, I think surnames used as first names is fine. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by SorenaJ

[coexist]

12 minutes ago, LucilleJ said:

50-cent child is named Marquise that's where I saw it. Such a precious name for the son of a rapper is weird but there probably a family history behind it (at least I hope so).

I don't know how to select both of your posts on my phone since they're on separate pages. Why is it weird that a rapper would use "such a precious name"?

I also wanted to add a quote from page eight when you said people shouldn't use a word from a different language if they don't know what it means. There are countless names or words that have different meanings in different languages. "Gary" is a suitable name when pronounced in English, but means "diarrhea" in Japanese and probably wouldn't be on anyone's short list there.

Cleopatra7 gave one reason for African-American children being given titles as a name, but also-- some AAs who give their children unconventional names simply like the sound of certain syllables together. Sometimes those sounds get represented with unique spellings. So "mar" + "kese" may have sounded great to 50 Cent and his ex, but they wanted to spell it differently. What it means in French might not have been of any concern to them at all, and why should it?

[Gobbles]

20 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

This is just my personal opinion, but I don’t think titles should be allowed to be used as names. Titles such as Princess, King, Emperor, Duchess, Prince, General, Major, God, Czar, Judge, Bishop, Majesty, Knight, Master, Christ, Messiah, Minister, Mister, President, Lord, Duke, Baron just sit wrong with me and I don’t think they should be allowed. 

 

I don’t agree with the German name law, that says that surnames can’t be used as first names, I think surnames used as first names is fine. 

Not all German surnames yes, but some can be used. My surname is not able to be a first name, it is something like "Kohler" (someone who worked with coals). My neighbours surname is in fact a first name that is widely used. Or what about "Bäcker" (bakery) or Metzger (butcher), those are obviously not okay. Or someone I know is named "Gross" with last name, that is like naming your child "tall".

US last names seem to be much more suitable to be a first names.  

[Audrey2]

Marquis Grissom was quite a good baseball player in the United States in the 90s and early 2000s.

[singsingsing]

I’m not in favour of any naming laws unless the name involves hate speech that would be banned anyway. What constitutes an “acceptable” name is way too subjective and not something that a group of bureaucrats should decide. If both parents agree that their baby should be named Joker MacPumpkin, so be it. He can change his name if he likes when he’s old enough. I don’t personally agree with it but that doesn’t mean it should be illegal. I think that parents who give their children truly horrendous names like Hitler or Fartface or whatever are very rare, and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. 

[Maggie Mae]

36 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

This is just my personal opinion, but I don’t think titles should be allowed to be used as names. Titles such as Princess, King, Emperor, Duchess, Prince, General, Major, God, Czar, Judge, Bishop, Majesty, Knight, Master, Christ, Messiah, Minister, Mister, President, Lord, Duke, Baron just sit wrong with me and I don’t think they should be allowed.

What about Khaleesi? ?

Honestly, name drama is so dumb. I hate a lot of names but who am I to choose what other people's names are based on my sensibilities and preferences? Besides, it's kind of fun to try and guess if someone's parents really love guns or horses.

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I’m not in favour of any naming laws unless the name involves hate speech that would be banned anyway. What constitutes an “acceptable” name is way too subjective and not something that a group of bureaucrats should decide. If both parents agree that their baby should be named Joker MacPumpkin, so be it. He can change his name if he likes when he’s old enough.

He's also able to come up with a nickname on his own and ask that people call him that.

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I don’t personally agree with it but that doesn’t mean it should be illegal. I think that parents who give their children truly horrendous names like Hitler or Fartface or whatever are very rare, and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. 

Hitler should probably be dealt with, but names like Isis and Adolf aren't bad names on their own.

[singsingsing]

I also feel like it’s kind of on you if you can’t get over a person’s ‘weird’ name. I’ve known/worked with some very successful people with very ‘weird’ names. Most people get used to it and it becomes a non-issue really fast.

[Glasgowghirl]

When I hear a really bad name, it is tempting to want those named banned but those rules would probably punnish the poor more than the rich, celebrities would probably get to call their child a really dumb name, someone poor will get told no and who decides what goes or not. Only names that are deemed offensive should be banned (Adolf Hitler and Aryan Nation were obviously names that were intended to offend people) Adolf is very rarely used in Germany anymore given the association with Hitler, the same way the name Myra fell out of use in the UK after Myra Hindley was convicted of the Moors Murders. I pity any girl who was named after the Greek goddess Isis as well. 

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

In the Jim Crow South, black adults were not given titles like Mr., Mrs., or Miss by whites. If they bothered to use your name at all, they’d just call you by your first name or if you were slightly older and on paternalistic terms, you might be called Aunt or Uncle (this is where we get Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben from). A workaround this was to given black children names associated with royalty or aristocracy like Prince, Queen, King, Earl, Baron, etc., since the reasoning was if white people were going to just call you by your first name, they might as well just call you King or Queen. I assume Marquis or Marquise comes from this tradition.

Maya Angelou has a magnificent short story about being called her proper name (“What’s Your Name, Girl?”). Same reason that the child of Beyoncé and Sean Carter is named “Sir.”  There are too many cultural traditions in the US to warrant naming restrictions.

[Naga Viper]

1 hour ago, SorenaJ said:

This is just my personal opinion, but I don’t think titles should be allowed to be used as names. Titles such as Princess, King, Emperor, Duchess, Prince, General, Major, God, Czar, Judge, Bishop, Majesty, Knight, Master, Christ, Messiah, Minister, Mister, President, Lord, Duke, Baron just sit wrong with me and I don’t think they should be allowed. 

 

I don’t agree with the German name law, that says that surnames can’t be used as first names, I think surnames used as first names is fine. 

We gon' hafta fight.

In all seriousness, those sorts of names aren't to my taste either, but others have laid out why America has the naming conventions (or lack thereof) that it does. Granted, there is a sort of social Darwinism aspect to it as well—if I met someone named, oh, say, Knox Defender, I'd probably surmise that one or both of his parents was an overcompensating tool and I might approach that family with elevated caution.

[mollysmom]

2 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

 

Hitler should probably be dealt with, but names like Isis and Adolf aren't bad names on their own.

When I was a firefighter/emt there was an elderly gentleman who had been with the fire company for 50+ years. His name was Adolf & he was honestly the sweetest person I have ever met in my life. There's really no point to what I'm saying, he's just the only person I've ever met with that name. 

[neuroticcat]

I just don’t understand why any government is involved with naming children. Or why they care...

[AliceInFundyland]

There's a fairly lightweight but respectful documentary out there about some of the people with the last name Hitler and how they have chosen to deal with it.

My absolute favorite is the guy from somewhere in rural South America who was named such from a newspaper... And professed not to have any idea who his namesake was until he came to the US.

[FluffySnowball]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I’m not in favour of any naming laws unless the name involves hate speech that would be banned anyway. What constitutes an “acceptable” name is way too subjective and not something that a group of bureaucrats should decide. If both parents agree that their baby should be named Joker MacPumpkin, so be it. He can change his name if he likes when he’s old enough. I don’t personally agree with it but that doesn’t mean it should be illegal. I think that parents who give their children truly horrendous names like Hitler or Fartface or whatever are very rare, and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. 

I totally agree with you IF an adult has the right to change his or her name. In Germany (to the best of my knowledge), changing your first name isn’t possible under any circumstance. If you convert to another religion, you have the right to add another name, but you cannot do so without conversion. At least that’s what I’ve heard (any Germans who know otherwise please chime in...) I find that too strict. 

[FundieCentral]

@FluffySnowball: That is not true, at least in my city. Changing first names is possible if your first name is a burden for you, you just have to declare why it is, file the declaration, have it approved, and pay a small fee.  Common reasons would be: 

1) being given a name that is demeaning or belittling (being called “loser” or “cutie” or something like that). 

2) having a name that was misspelled, or is easily misspelled or misunderstood 

3) being named after someone where you’d like to remove the association (this covers all the ‘Adolfs’ who’d like to change their name :)) 

It’s not possible to change your surname outside of a change in you or your family’s registered status (adoption, marriage, divorce, death). 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 minutes ago, FundieCentral said:

@FluffySnowball: That is not true, at least in my city. Changing first names is possible if your first name is a burden for you, you just have to declare why it is, file the declaration, have it approved, and pay a small fee.  Common reasons would be: 

1) being given a name that is demeaning or belittling (being called “loser” or “cutie” or something like that). 

2) having a name that was misspelled, or is easily misspelled or misunderstood 

3) being named after someone where you’d like to remove the association (this covers all the ‘Adolfs’ who’d like to change their name :)) 

It’s not possible to change your surname outside of a change in you or your family’s registered status (adoption, marriage, divorce, death). 

Again, way too much regulation. If Murica Freedom ofBooks grows up and wants to change her name to Eva Svetlana de TeeVee, that’s her business.

Having social services must be nice, though.

[FluffySnowball]

@FundieCentral Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of the details. Still, most German people couldn’t change their names according to these rules. In fact, our naming regulations already forbid parents from choosing demeaning names I believe (that’s the one rule I’m in favor!) If you simply don’t like your name, there’s nothing you can do about it on an official level - but you can ask people to call you by another name in your everyday life. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by FluffySnowball
spelling

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Honestly, name drama is so dumb. I hate a lot of names but who am I to choose what other people's names are based on my sensibilities and preferences?

Yeah, I will totally admit I can be a bit of a name snob and especially hate "creative" spellings and unnecessary accents. 

However, there is a big difference between thinking a name is stupid and actually giving the government the power to overrule what two parents get to name their own child.

And a lot of this acceptability seems to be determined by age and economic status. Many of those "banned" names seemed the type of name young parents would give their kids. Personally I think Avicii is a colossally stupid name for a baby. But if two twenty year olds have him as their favorite musician and want to name their son after him, who are we to say they aren't allowed? Snooty social climbers have been naming their sons Johann and Frederic for decades. 

[FundieCentral]

7 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Again, way too much regulation. If Murica Freedom ofBooks grows up and wants to change her name to Eva Svetlana de TeeVee, that’s her business.

Having social services must be nice, though.

If I were to give a philosophical response here - the first phrase in our constitution is “the dignity of each person is untouchable”. As such, I think the naming law (widely interpreted) seeks to ensure that no person is burdened with a name that would make him or her the subject or ridicule, discrimination, or disadvantage in their life, job, travel, etc. or the subject of copyright lawsuits. In other words, the law seeks to protect the children’s dignity at the expense of the parents’ freedom to name their child “little fucktard coca-cola”. 

It is of course a topic that many people have strong feelings about, but just to add a little context  

Edited December 2, 2019 by FundieCentral

[AliceInFundyland]

I know someone who legally changed their name around to incorporate some familial things and spellings that suited them better.

She also inserted the additional middlename "Kittentits"

?

She'd crowdsourced for the funding to do the needed paperwork. Any donations got input on a middle name suggestion.

Truly a Murica thang. Possibly a rather NW Murica thang in this instance.

[Vivi_music]

@nausicaa I too would probably be considered a bit of a name snob if I think about my own personal opinions on certain names. But it's just my opinion. It's the reason I don't comment on other people's name choice much. What is the use of sharing my opinion anyways? My taste in names will only influence how I'll name my child. Who am I to say how others should name their kid? And I would certainly not enjoy it if anyone gave me comments about my name choices. So yeah, name feuds are a bit silly.

In Québec, we have one famous case. In 1996, the Directeur de l'État Civil refused the name Spatule (spatula). The parents took it to the tribunals and they actually lost. The judge said the child would live his life in ridicule. It is such a famous case that the baby who-was-almost-named-Spatula was traced back by journalists a few years ago and did an interview about it. Since then the Directeur has backed down a little on refusing names. I don't know if they still can but they don't use their power much.

It is still super arbitrary. I was born in 1991 and I went to high school with a girl (born the same year) named Sushi. When I tell the anecdote, a ton of people ask me if she is asian. Which... doesn't matter? Even if she was, I rarely see Asians naming their kids after food. Anyhow, she and I were born a few years before the Spatula case. Why did the Quebec government accept her name but a few years later refused Spatula? The judge mentionned the ''ridicule'' argument. Let me tell you, I spent high school with Sushi and she was teased often enough. I also know that she now goes by Sue (probably short for Susie or Suzanne) instead of Sushi.

[KeepingChrysanthemum]

6 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I also feel like it’s kind of on you if you can’t get over a person’s ‘weird’ name. I’ve known/worked with some very successful people with very ‘weird’ names. Most people get used to it and it becomes a non-issue really fast.

I've even gotten used to Spurgeon ?