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Josh, Anna, M'Kids 21: This Thread Can Drink Now


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8 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I just don’t understand why any government is involved with naming children. Or why they care...

To protect the innocent. To uphold people's dignity. 

I imagine it's the same reason spanking kids is outlawed. 

We can't just assume people will make the best decision for their kids, because clearly, they won't.  

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Name the kid something...going through life as "hey you" doesn't work very well. My given name is theoretically "classy". I hate it. My kids have fairly traditional names but that's because I suck at original ideas most of the time. 

Your opinion on someone's name means exactly jack shit. Unknot your shorts and get the fuck over it. 

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So Josh and Anna posted their happy Thanksgiving message on fb "from our family of 8", proving my gut feeling they went on the Lauren miscarriage bandwagon a while back. Feels like a BEC, but just stick to your convictions people. Bugs me. 

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7 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

So Josh and Anna posted their happy Thanksgiving message on fb "from our family of 8", proving my gut feeling they went on the Lauren miscarriage bandwagon a while back. Feels like a BEC, but just stick to your convictions people. Bugs me. 

2 adults, 6 kids (Mackenzie, Michael, Marcus, Meredith, Mason, Maryella). Family of 8. 

Edited by SorenaJ
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31 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

2 adults, 6 kids (Mackenzie, Michael, Marcus, Meredith, Mason, Maryella). Family of 8. 

But Anna had a miscarriage between Mackenzie and Michael. At one point before Maryella was born she referred to herself as a mother of seven.

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1 hour ago, meee said:

But Anna had a miscarriage between Mackenzie and Michael. At one point before Maryella was born she referred to herself as a mother of seven.

Exactly, which would make them a family of 9. I really couldn't care less if the count the pregnancy they lost or not. I do have an opinion about doing it to push an agenda, which was my gut feeling when she posted she was a soon to be mom of 7. But maybe Josh wrote the current Fb post and he missed the memo.

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20 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

Marquis Grissom was quite a good baseball player in the United States in the 90s and early 2000s.

Marquis for a boy wouldn't be an issue - the E on the end makes it a feminine noun. I'm of two minds about the gendered names - I've lived in the USA and France, and I totally get why feminine noun/adjective names would be confusing and possibly seen as offensive or saddling a kid with an inappropriate name in a society with grammatical gender.

At the same time, naming a kid with a gendered name just reinforces the idea of gender and gender roles. So is it necessarily a bad thing to name a boy a title that means "wife of a marquis" if gender isn't a real thing? Being upset about that could be seen as just buying into gender norms. On the other hand, if you named a boy Marquise in a French-speaking area I'm sure he would be in for a lot of bullying. Not sure where I stand on that.

In terms of naming laws - I was confused by the notes on the Finnish list indicating that the child didn't have the ethnic background to justify using a name. Who decides what kind of ethnic background is needed to use any particular name? How does one prove or disprove someone's ethnic background? What if a parent is naming their child after someone from that culture - for example, my (white) SO has Japanese godparents, and easily could have been named for them. Our friends are a gay couple where one dad is the bio dad and the non-bio dad is from a country with very different naming conventions - what if they wanted to name their son after the non-bio dad's culture? That just gets way too restrictive and confusing to me.

And then there is the problem with naming laws basically always unfairly targeting minorities, as everyone has pointed out.

However, I don't think naming laws are necessarily always a problem. There is something to be said for stopping parents from naming their child something obviously embarrassing or something to cause an undue burden. Everyone points to Dr. Marijuana Pepsi Vandyke as an example of names not holding anyone back, but I'm 100% sure that it created barriers in her life that she wouldn't have had to deal with had she not been named that. I'm not sure why a parent would want to create those kinds of barriers for their kids. But then I'm back around to, hey, how about we not pass judgment on someone because their parent(s) made a poor naming choice? Then those barriers wouldn't exist.

So, I don't know!

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9 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I imagine it's the same reason spanking kids is outlawed. 

That’s legal here too, you know.

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15 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

That’s legal here too, you know.

But that’s the thing. There is an obvious cultural difference between the US and Europe here (at least the part of Europe me and @SorenaJ are  from). 

My child is not just mine to decide over any way I want. He doesn’t belong to me, he is his own person and a citizen in Sweden. As such the goverment protects him in some ways. I can’t name him Shithead and I can’t hit or abuse him. I can’t homeschool him either. He is also intiteled to both free health and dental care and free education and gets a free lunch at school. I guess it’s the social democrats in us. :)

I understand these rules sound way too restrictive for Americans (and to some Swedes as well), but we are very different cultures. I for one have learnt a lot about how other cultures work on FJ and am trying to be less judgemental about things others do and think. (Except the spanking, I’ll never understand people that think that’s ok.)

I have never really understood why people get so upset about the naming laws though. I have never heard about anyone being denied naming their kid something that’s culturally appropiate for them and if that does happen I am all for them getting approved. It might still be nice for them to know that the name they want means ”humungous turd” in Swedish before they make their final decision though. And if you desperatly want your child to be named Shithead no one is stopping you from calling them that. It just can’t be their official name. 

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I dream a lot, I remember a lot of my dreams in vivid details. Lately I haven't been able to remember most of my dreams (stress), they are little glimpses that when I try and reach out and remember them they float away like fog. However last night I dreamt I was at a retreat and Anna & Josh were staying at the same resort. I talked to Anna about reading a book about relationships then Josh came over and the 3 of us started playing cards and talking (nothing deep, nothing about the investigation or his past). Then I woke up. This is the dream that I remember in the last 2 weeks? Seriously? UGH :angry-banghead:

Ok, back to the baby being born and Anna forcing this marriage to work. 

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2 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

I have never really understood why people get so upset about the naming laws though. I have never heard about anyone being denied naming their kid something that’s culturally appropiate for them and if that does happen I am all for them getting approved.

I am so baffled by this. Who decides what is "culturally appropriate" for someone? How is that determined?

I just pulled up a random list of students where I work, how would someone determine whether any of these are "culturally appropriate" for the family:

Chaya

Zalmay

Kirandeep

Alicia

Daniela

Xiomara

Jillian

Mone't

Alessandro

Golde

Jumi

How Jewish do you have to be to name your daughter Golde? Can you name your child Alessandro if you're not Italian, or Zalmay if you're not Afghan? Do the same rules apply to all groups - for example, could Korean parents name their child Alicia and white parents name their child Jumi?

Where I am it's widely accepted for minority groups to name their children typically "white" names, but in general it would be weird if a white family named their kid, for example, a typically Indian name like Kirandeep. It privileges "white" names as normal and acceptable for anyone, while names that indicate a non-white ethnicity are are only "normal" for people in that ethnic group. I would be concerned that instituting naming laws would codify that privileged position of typically "white" or even "normal" names and only scrutinize those with "weird" names. I might be misunderstanding what you mean by "culturally appropriate" though.

 

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On 11/29/2019 at 1:50 PM, Beermeet said:

Persephone is an amazing Goddess name.  I love it but, I'm pagan and partial to such stories.  That being said, my kids' names couldn't be more biblical.  We wanted to honor family members. 

?‍♀️

https://www.crystalvaults.com/goddess-persephone

I always quote the late great George Carlin in matters like this when he said "think of how stupid the average person is, then realize 1/2 the population is dumber than that"

My daughter went to the same school district for 12 years, there were only 200 kids in her graduating class, every year almost every teacher would say her name wrong, her name is spelled with a G instead of a J, that is the only difference in the 2 spellings of this name.  They even said it wrong at graduation, after the principal screwed it up the entire graduating class shouted the proper pronunciation of her name, much to the crowds amusement, he laughed it off and said "you'd think after 4 years I'd get it right"

I don't hold out any hope that a large portion of the population will know who Pursaphone is, or even how to say the name properly. 

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1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

I have never really understood why people get so upset about the naming laws though. I have never heard about anyone being denied naming their kid something that’s culturally appropiate for them and if that does happen I am all for them getting approved. It might still be nice for them to know that the name they want means ”humungous turd” in Swedish before they make their final decision though. And if you desperatly want your child to be named Shithead no one is stopping you from calling them that. It just can’t be their official name. 

One of the examples on the banned list that was posted was "Avicii." Like I said before, I think it's a stupid name, but if two young parents have him as their favorite DJ and want to name their kid after him, how is that any less valid than two 40 year old PhDs wanting to name their son "Johann" because of their love for classical music? A lot of those names on the list (yes, even "Sock") seemed fairly harmless and were a long way from "Shithead."

I do like your earlier points though about the rights of children. I lean libertarian, and I struggle a lot with the balance between parents' rights and the rights of children as individuals. FJ has opened my eyes more to the latter. I always personally thought spanking was stupid, but believed it should be legal. I think it was Buffy who made the argument that assault against an adult was illegal, so why not children, and that flipped me to the other side. 

(Random aside, "Crap we changed our minds about because of FJ" would be a great thread topic.)

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48 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

My daughter went to the same school district for 12 years... her name is spelled with a G instead of a J, that is the only difference in the 2 spellings of this name.  

Ginger? ?

Edited by scoutsadie
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1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I dream a lot, I remember a lot of my dreams in vivid details. Lately I haven't been able to remember most of my dreams (stress), they are little glimpses that when I try and reach out and remember them they float away like fog. However last night I dreamt I was at a retreat and Anna & Josh were staying at the same resort. I talked to Anna about reading a book about relationships then Josh came over and the 3 of us started playing cards and talking (nothing deep, nothing about the investigation or his past). Then I woke up. This is the dream that I remember in the last 2 weeks? Seriously? UGH :angry-banghead:

Ok, back to the baby being born and Anna forcing this marriage to work. 

That’s better then the dream I had last night. I dreamt that I was buying a mattress for someone. 

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1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

But that’s the thing. There is an obvious cultural difference between the US and Europe here (at least the part of Europe me and @SorenaJ are  from). 

We don't really have a monolithic "culture" in the US, though. There's some obvious similarities, but the average experience of a "city kid" from Chicago or New York will be different from the average kid in, say, unalakleet, alaska. Honolulu is different from Austin, which is different from Omaha or Springfield (pick one). 

1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

I have never really understood why people get so upset about the naming laws though. I have never heard about anyone being denied naming their kid something that’s culturally appropiate for them and if that does happen I am all for them getting approved. 

People get upset because in the US we have distinct cultures all living together (somewhat.) 19 of the top 20 diverse schools are in my city. (not NYC.) We have a population that is 67% "white" which means the usual US descendants of "white" immigrants from Scandinavia, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, and whatever else we are calling "white" these days, all mixed up. Then we have Asians, mostly from the Philippines, but there are also populations of people from Vietnam and Korea, and probably elsewhere but for some reason there is only one box for "Asian" on the boxes. We've got a huge number of Pacific Islanders and Alaska Natives. We've got immigrants from Eastern Africa and the middle east. Then we have our own "cultures." Hippy cultures, redneck "cultures," regional preferences. If someone is a climber (of any ethnicity) and wants to call his kid Denali (Athabaskan for "the great one"), would it be OK for an Alaska Native to do that but not him? Because he's not native? Why would we want to waste a judge's time on deciding what names are OK for which person? 

28 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

(Random aside, "Crap we changed our minds about because of FJ" would be a great thread topic.)

Be the change you want to see in the world! 

(I thought we might have already done that but if not its a good idea.)

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2 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Be the change you want to see in the world! 

(I thought we might have already done that but if not its a good idea.)

Let me get some actual work done and I'll get on it!

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On 11/30/2019 at 4:36 AM, adidas said:

I think you nailed it. I remember years ago reading a discussion online about wearing seatbelts and helmets. There were people insisting it was a personal choice and nobody could tell them what to do. I was like: sure Darwin. You go on with your bad self and refuse to wear a helmet just because you can. 

I live in (I believe, I could be wrong...) the only state that has no seat belt laws for adults.  We also do not require helmets for motorcyclists.  That said, the only people who don't wear helmets are out of staters, and I have never once, not once in my whole life, seen and adult riding in a car without a seat belt.  But you better not put a law on the books about it.  I had no idea there were rules in the world about baby names.  But what do I know?  My state motto is Live Free Or Die.  

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23 hours ago, coexist said:

I don't know how to select both of your posts on my phone since they're on separate pages. Why is it weird that a rapper would use "such a precious name"?

I also wanted to add a quote from page eight when you said people shouldn't use a word from a different language if they don't know what it means. There are countless names or words that have different meanings in different languages. "Gary" is a suitable name when pronounced in English, but means "diarrhea" in Japanese and probably wouldn't be on anyone's short list there.

Cleopatra7 gave one reason for African-American children being given titles as a name, but also-- some AAs who give their children unconventional names simply like the sound of certain syllables together. Sometimes those sounds get represented with unique spellings. So "mar" + "kese" may have sounded great to 50 Cent and his ex, but they wanted to spell it differently. What it means in French might not have been of any concern to them at all, and why should it?

I choose poorly my words, for me rapper choose manly, butch... names for their boys and when I heard/read Marquise, this is what I think about -> 1005114-Marquise_de_Pompadour.jpg hence my "precious" comment (again if his name was Marquis no problem). I didn't know the purpose of those kind of name before the explanation from Cleopatra7.

Given that 50-cent other child is Sire, I think it fit with that explanation and there isn't really kr8iv spelling here just misspelling.

 

Then about Gary maybe if the spelling was Gari it would be weird to Japanese people (even if I'm not convinced because Japanese don't use romaji to write japanese word)?

I think it's maybe part of a cultural thing, in France I can't think of someone using Con as a nickname for Connor/Conrad... because con is a slur, but in america (anglo-saxon?) it's not a problem to give someone Dick as a nickname for Richard, even to high up men, and it's also a slur. [I have read an old romance book where they translated Connor/Con to Samuel/Sam to avoid that]

 

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I never understand our naming laws.

Names that are offensive are not allowed but I have seen names that should not have passed. Especially since I guess they are names given by parents that do not speak Dutch and therefore do not notice how bad the names are themselves. Examples:

Qut: the word Kut is Dutch for vagina and is used as English speaking people use the word Shit. We say it all the time.

Dikshit: also clear in English but on top ‘dik’ means fat in Dutch.

Phuc: also clear.

Tyten: sounds like ‘tieten’ which means boobs.

Eylul: ‘lul’ means dick but we mainly use it how English speaking people use the word asshole. So Eylul sounds like: hey asshole!

Aykut: see Qut and Eylul.

 

I understand that these names are normal in other cultures but when your kid is born in the Netherlands they should be protected.

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13 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

To protect the innocent. To uphold people's dignity. 

I imagine it's the same reason spanking kids is outlawed. 

We can't just assume people will make the best decision for their kids, because clearly, they won't.  

While I agree that parents won’t necessarily make the best decisions for children and might even make harmful choices, I certainly have less confidence in the bureaucracy of government making good decisions for individual children. 

I certainly wouldn’t want the government intruding on these matters, because a handful of silly parents chose vile names. And who determines what is overall “best” for children? While I agree with you on spanking and wish it were outlawed here, I think parents should be allowed school choices - i.e. homeschooling - vaccination choices, and other lifestyle choices, etc. No matter how we are raised we all have to overcome the failings of our parents and community on our way to adulthood...

Maybe I am more American to the core than I thought...?

 

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1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

While I agree that parents won’t necessarily make the best decisions for children and might even make harmful choices, I certainly have less confidence in the bureaucracy of government making good decisions for individual children. 

I certainly wouldn’t want the government intruding on these matters, because a handful of silly parents chose vile names. And who determines what is overall “best” for children? While I agree with you on spanking and wish it were outlawed here, I think parents should be allowed school choices - i.e. homeschooling - vaccination choices, and other lifestyle choices, etc. No matter how we are raised we all have to overcome the failings of our parents and community on our way to adulthood...

Maybe I am more American to the core than I thought...?

 

You don't realize just HOW American you are until you talk to someone from another country and hear about things like naming laws. In the U.S. we are aghast at the though of the government telling us what we can and cannot name our kid, but someone like @SorenaJ can't imagine them NOT being in charge. 

We really hate being told what to do, especially by the government. Even when doing that is in our best interest, like seat belts, helmets, gun laws, government safety regulations, clean water, clean air, licensing people like Doctors, nurses, electrons, fire codes, stuff so we don't die from shitty work. We really can be our own worst enemies. 

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