Nattie Darnell wants a 1950s housewife!

[FundieGhostWriter]

 

@Flyinthesoup, the bolded words are not only true, but the latter part is a quote (I pricked up my ears when I noticed Doug's acolytes talking about friends of mine). As to flummoxing them with simple questions - I've done that myself when some later 'came after' me. But I'm anonymous here (and staying that way!), so my word is no better than any other keyboard hero's.

I said inspired, not ordered, because I won't overstate. I'll say nothing without personal experience or good authority. (I will tell jokes, but even they are truer than some of Doug's highest ideals.) Byproduct would be understatement. Doug himself would query people (including me) on Calvinism the way normal people talk about weather - so in summary: he did it; his followers did it; decide for yourself the word to use for his responsibility. I'll never forget Doug telling me: 'I'm not a Christian, I'm a Calvinist.' Certainly, the first half seems always to have been true. And Doug was present, though not to my knowledge directing, the conversation I heard.

On 10/5/2019 at 7:09 PM, ophelia said:

"Wow"! How one person can promote biblical patriarchy (and all the other crap VF stood for), disappear and suddenly show up in the vintage/50's/rockabilly scene

As @thoughtful said, 'it makes perfect sense', to me too. Extremist patriarchal teachings were 'in the air' of the evangelical right when Doug concocted his 'Vision'. He used the tools that were at hand. Also in the 90s mainstream Christian 'air' was a hunger for a youth fad with more substance and distinctiveness than CCM (of course this is in a way perennial, but I'm talking a mindset that aided VF in particular). People in youth ministry and evangelism longed for a craze to make church kids cool. They wanted their youngsters to feel superior rather than square - 'we are the funnest thing going down right now' - and that might even bring in non-Christians. Would it be visual arts? Classical poetry? A new and experimental music craze? Sober rave parties with crazy Christian fancy dress of some sort? Jousting, archery, and other knightly pursuits? The wild west? Doug's Vision was a watered down version of the dress-up ideas I heard, and false starts I witnessed, before VF stole (and expanded) the homeschooling fundie end of that market. Doug could have gone much further with the playfulness if he had not, a) been so obsessed with profit (running the sort of jousting tournaments I heard others daydream of was too expensive), and b) become so fixated on the arid miseries of theonomy that it tended to take away the fun (who would have thought!).

So: dress-ups have always been Doug's thing. Today, it's bluntly 'sex sells' (as long as it's pre-bra-burning sex). Then it was Rushdoony sells - but that was also sex obsessed - Quiverfull sex - with trembling little silent lady types. (Can we doubt that Doug’s fantasy was a fresh young virgin to spice up his middle age, if he could just make his current 'worn out' lady croak it in childbed in the good-old-fashioned-way?) The 40s/50s escapades are so much better!

Thanks @nelliebelle1197 for the JT update. I hope that wherever his beliefs and opportunities turn, that he'll conduct himself with humility and integrity. The sin of his family (and his FIL!) was not just stupid ideology, but the vanity and vile manipulativeness with which they pursued their own advantage. His father can teach him little about how to be a man. It's time Beall showed the world an honest face. Keeping up appearances, 'for the sake of the kids', is garbage.

Out of personal interest, I'd love to resuscitate the Has Anything Taken the Place of VF? thread. Thanks @MamaJunebug for bringing it to my attention. If no one else does I'll post there eventually. But first, @Flyinthesoup, I'll get to your question in the Where in the World is Doug Phillips? thread about Ken Ham (maybe not today). Be warned: I don't know how much of the story you've heard - but you'll need Kleenex, possibly a bathroom, near at hand. Don't read it if rolling on the floor will be bad for your heart or your back. Don't read it in public: security will be called. Just thinking about it I need to take deep breaths.

But I've strayed far enough from Nattie Darnell!

[hollyfeller]

On 10/5/2019 at 1:16 PM, AnnaSofia said:

Well, she IS in Georgia today...

 

Obviously people can dress and style themselves any way they want, but there is a point where it becomes a fetish.  These kinds of posts scream, "Look at me!"

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, Curious said:

Is this style a thing among millennials?   I watch a lot of cooking shows in the background while I'm doing other stuff and recently, as in the last few seasons, on some shows I've noticed that these older hairstyles and to maybe a slightly lesser extent the fashion seems to be popular.

Of course, when I tried to find some examples of what I meant I am totally drawing a blank on everyone's name except for Monti Carlo on Masterchef from a couple seasons ago.   This isn't the best picture but gives you sort of an idea of the hair style.

 

I have noticed as well and I honestly love her take on the style.  Thats what some of the kids are doing these days. I dig it. Not too overdone like a walking 1940's  Vogue model. 

I wouldn't mind wearing many of those dresses on the reg.  Like, plunk me down in 1946 for a short time or let it be the optional norm please!  The pants outfits are great too. I couldn't stay long there I'm sure, considering I had to stop watching Mad Men due to anger!  I'd be locked in a mental institution with my modern 2019 female ways! Assholes. Lol!  

[Flyinthesoup]

1 hour ago, FundieGhostWriter said:

Out of personal interest, I'd love to resuscitate the Has Anything Taken the Place of VF? thread. Thanks @MamaJunebug for bringing it to my attention. If no one else does I'll post there eventually. But first, @Flyinthesoup, I'll get to your question in the Where in the World is Doug Phillips? thread about Ken Ham (maybe not today). Be warned: I don't know how much of the story you've heard - but you'll need Kleenex, possibly a bathroom, near at hand. Don't read it if rolling on the floor will be bad for your heart or your back. Don't read it in public: security will be called. Just thinking about it I need to take deep breaths.

@FundieGhostWriter Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.  Wow....he's a real piece of work!  I probably only heard a fraction of what you know, regarding AiG.  I still have been surprised at the ground worshiping people do with Ken Ham.  I look forward to learning more and being educated on this subject.  I might have to read in little bites, then get up and walk away from the keyboard so I don't get too angry in one sitting.  Thank you for the warning. Only share if and when you are able. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I really don’t mind cosplay. It’s a creative outlet and an enjoyable hobby for some. I just get annoyed when people want to romanticize the time they are cosplaying. 

[Marmion]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I really don’t mind cosplay. It’s a creative outlet and an enjoyable hobby for some. I just get annoyed when people want to romanticize the time they are cosplaying. 

I know what you mean .  Like with Medieval faires .  People like to revel in the pomp and pageantry , of days of old when knights were bold , and barons held their sway , but tend to overlook the lives of feudal serfs .  

 

15 hours ago, FundieGhostWriter said:

People in youth ministry and evangelism longed for a craze to make church kids cool. They wanted their youngsters to feel superior rather than square - 'we are the funnest thing going down right now' - and that might even bring in non-Christians. Would it be visual arts? Classical poetry? A new and experimental music craze? Sober rave parties with crazy Christian fancy dress of some sort? Jousting, archery, and other knightly pursuits

How about all of the above ?  Just for fun , I'll share this from a Celtic band , from my home state of Ohio .  

I think that certain young people from a fundamentalist / traditionalist background are increasingly taking a  liking to  Celtic music  , as it's the closest to rock music they can get to , but as it's considered to be mountain music rather than " jungle music "  , it won't be so liable to be deemed to be the Devil's music .  But yes , eventhough I myself enjoy Celtic music , especially as I can accumulate albums with impunity ,  without my mother possibly subjecting me to scrutiny , I do still recognize the kind of people it might attract .   https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/neo-nazi-groups-use-traditional-folk-music-festivals-recruit-radicals   

[mango_fandango]

There’s a YouTuber I sort-of follow who wears vintage stuff. It’s just a fashion thing for her rather than romanticising the era. She talks about loads of other stuff than just fashion. I don’t wear makeup often, but if I did wear it every day I wouldn’t have the confidence to wear red lipstick! 

[MamaJunebug]

One of the JB:TheNextGeneration wears vintage-style clothes to work at her office job. They’re modest, gender-appropriate, and otherwise unremarkable - she does her hair up, too. I’m unclear whether she wears such when she has a meeting with vendors or clients. 

As progressive as they come.  Just a reminder that we really can’t judge the interior by the exterior. 

[ViolaSebastian]

I went and followed her on Instagram, because I have a peculiar fascination with people who choose to take historical roleplaying (in a way that becomes mostly fantasy roleplaying, but I digress...) to the next level and choose to live it out in their day to day life. Today she posted this message. She acknowledges that the 1950s had social problems. Which...okay. Thumbs up to that, it definitely did. Then she goes into this (imho) weird rant about how yes, some people supported segregation, but not everyone, and some people "vehemently" opposed segregation.  For example, her grandfather from Tennessee was a great guy who taught his kids to treat people the same regardless of ethnicity or backgrounds. He still remembers how angry he felt when "white men got to sit down on the bus and black ladies had to stand up [tear emoji]. She also apparently grew up in black gospel churches. Now, I don't know her, her family, or her grandfather, so I'm going to take these statements at face value. There were southerners who opposed segregation. Statistically, there weren't many, but again, I didn't know her grandfather. Of note, she doesn't specifically say he opposed segregation, just that he didn't like it when African-American women had to get up when white men got on the bus. 

Ahem. After tacitly acknowledging how God-awful segregation was/is, she then launches into how "the old-fashioned values that I want to bring back from the 50s are looking out for your neighbor, loving God, country, and family, valuing people over things, and trying to make the best of every situation no matter how hard it seems." That these are not the only values from the 1950s isn't worth mentioning. The fact that the 1950s are a horrific decade for a lot of populations is also beside the point,  I guess. The fact that the values she listed are stereotypes born of simulacra. and that the "looking out for your neighbor" rarely crossed the color barrier, that "loving God, country, and family" bore the McCarthy-era witch-hunts, that valuing people over things apparently included conditions that lead to a steelworkers strike in 1952 and the Atlanta transit strike of 1950, and that "trying to make the best of every situation no matter how hard it seems" included women who were trapped in abusive marriages and children who had to get tough and endure sexual abuse because no one would believe them appears to be lost on her entirely.

But hey, she grew up reading vintage memoirs from the time she was five and she's convinced "the olden days" are better than today. Because I'm sure she's reading memoirs from a cross-section of people from varied backgrounds and socio-economic statuses, life experiences, and education. Because poor people who struggled to read and write because of segregated and/or rural schools TOTALLY wrote memoirs about how great the 1950s were.

Then she unironically uses the hashtag "#donnareed." SMDH. If she's going to do this, she needs to acknowledge that there's privilege inherent to what she's play-acting. 

 

 

[TheWayTheWorldWorks]

Several of my nieces (early 20s) and their significant others will wear vintage fashion for day to day or special events. They love taking the retro and pairing it with something modern though. So, if one were to wear a retro hairstyle, she would pair it with a modern, edgy outfit. None of them seem confined to one decade though. This week alone, I saw one neice in current, 80s and 50s clothes. For myfamily, it just depends on what they found at the thrift shops and their mood that day.

[nelliebelle1197]

19 hours ago, Beermeet said:

I have noticed as well and I honestly love her take on the style.  Thats what some of the kids are doing these days. I dig it. Not too overdone like a walking 1940's  Vogue model. 

I wouldn't mind wearing many of those dresses on the reg.  Like, plunk me down in 1946 for a short time or let it be the optional norm please!  The pants outfits are great too. I couldn't stay long there I'm sure, considering I had to stop watching Mad Men due to anger!  I'd be locked in a mental institution with my modern 2019 female ways! Assholes. Lol!  

Most of my dresses are very 40s and 50s. I love them!

[Leftitinmysnood]

I wear vintage style clothes most of the times I dress up. Not for work, or everyday, though. My hair game is completely not on point, however. Back in high school, I could pin curl up a storm,  but who has that kind of time anymore? 

I was only Donna Reed once though, and that was for a zombie costume event.

[SuperNova]

3 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I have a peculiar fascination with people who choose to take historical roleplaying (in a way that becomes mostly fantasy roleplaying, but I digress...) to the next level and choose to live it out in their day to day life.

I've mentioned in other threads that Mr Nova and I live a very MCM life. While it started off innocently enough with a few outfits and a classic car, it has morphed into a full blown lifestyle. We live in an untouched 1948 Ranch complete with the inconvenient tile bathroom, we don't own a single modern vehicle, we both collect clothing from the 50's-70's. Furniture, accessories, plates, linens, etc., are all period correct. I sewed all our curtains on a 50's Singer. I do draw the line at my kitchen appliances with a modern gas range, refrigerator, and microwave. I used to have an old toaster that Mr Nova made me give up when I accidently set fire to our last kitchen so we have a modern one now. 

It's more like a game and hobby for us. We don't hold to the ideals of the eras, only the aesthetic. It's hard to romanticize the 50's and 60's when we would have been ostracized for being a mixed race couple. We also don't wear vintage every day anymore. It's a lot of upkeep on the clothes and on the look itself and I'm just too tired to do it. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by SuperNova

[Beermeet]

I just have to share a picture of my favorite dress I own.  A friend was getting married and us 2  bridesmaids of course went with her to pick out a dress for her. Well, she had chosen this as an option.  My fellow bridesmaid and I took one look at it and decided this must be the bridesmaids dress!  We fell in love. As she tried it on, we hatched a plan to find her another.  I found a gorgeous white gown with pretty black flowers that she ended up loving despite not being super into a real wedding gown. Of course, if she chose this dress we'd be out of luck!  We fessed up at the reception after a few drinks!  I've worn it to 2 weddings and hope to wear it again.  At both weddings I was cornered in the bathroom by quite a few women checking it out and touching the gorgeous sparkling beading on the bottom!  I vacuumed in it for fun with black pumps. ?

 

 

[thoughtful]

On 10/7/2019 at 4:17 PM, ViolaSebastian said:

Then she unironically uses the hashtag "#donnareed.

She should have used #donnastone, Reed's character's name on her show. Because she might have hated Donna Reed if she met her IRL.

Reed was the co-chair of Another Mother for Peace, protesting the war in Vietnam. They were the  people who designed this:

Also:

Quote

In addition to opposing the Vietnam War, Reed also opposed nuclear power plants. She supported Democratic Senator Eugene McCarthy from Minnesota in the 1968 presidential election. He was a strong anti-war advocate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Reed

She and her husband co-created The Donna Reed Show, so she could control her career.

 

[The Mother Dust]

You guys might like this youtuber. She wears vintage clothes on the regular, but isn't annoying about it. 

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by The Mother Dust

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I love vintage styles, particularly 40s anf 50s, but they are not made for anyone over size 14.  A vintage size 12 is for a 30 inch bust.  

So I indulge my sensibility in somewhat retro looking, but modern clothes, with vintage jewelery and accessories, I have a huge collection from 1920s flapper beads to 1930s Bakelite to 50s-60s rhinestones that I began as a teenager hunting in Goodwill stores.  Also vintage handbags  Ebay/ estate sales are your friend for vintage finds. My look is more of an homage rather than true vintage/ cosplay.  

For example: a sheath dress with a  double/triple strand necklace of 1950's faux pearls and AB crystals. Or a pencil skirt, cardigan, peter pan collar blouse with a rhinestone pin on the sweater shoulder or the shirt collar.  1950s sweater guards get clipped/pinned to one lapel of cropped fitted jackets or across the back at the waist. I buy sequined/ embellished cardigans whenever I can.  I like a straight silhouette, not a full skirt, as I'm short and curvy.

I always wear red lipstick -- have since college over 25 years ago.  I own probably 75 tubes, all brands, Always on the hunt for the perfect red. Can't do a cat eye to save my life so the rest of my makeup is normal  I don't go in for vintage shoes -- usually flats or stilettos (but I like pointy toes) -- but do own several pairs from Miss L Fire -- a UK company that makes retro looking footwear -- again ebay is your friend. No vintage hairstyles as who has the time.

But definitely not a 1950s housewife, even though I cook nearly every night. Way too feminist and independent thinking for Lil' Nattie. Not that I ever considered even dating a man who wanted a submissive SAHW.

Mr. Dress likes my independence, and as for spoiling him -- well -- we spoil each other. Works out soooo much better when it's mutual.

 

[Leftitinmysnood]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:38 PM, Beermeet said:

I just have to share a picture of my favorite dress I own.  A friend was getting married and us 2  bridesmaids of course went with her to pick out a dress for her. Well, she had chosen this as an option.  My fellow bridesmaid and I took one look at it and decided this must be the bridesmaids dress!  We fell in love. As she tried it on, we hatched a plan to find her another.  I found a gorgeous white gown with pretty black flowers that she ended up loving despite not being super into a real wedding gown. Of course, if she chose this dress we'd be out of luck!  We fessed up at the reception after a few drinks!  I've worn it to 2 weddings and hope to wear it again.  At both weddings I was cornered in the bathroom by quite a few women checking it out and touching the gorgeous sparkling beading on the bottom!  I vacuumed in it for fun with black pumps. ?

 

 

Um, wow. I fell in love with a dress just like that, but they were out of my size, so I copied it. I couldn't get the beaded border fabric though and I was very worried the original wasn't washable. Mine is.

[hollyfeller]

On 10/7/2019 at 1:17 PM, ViolaSebastian said:

I went and followed her on Instagram, because I have a peculiar fascination with people who choose to take historical roleplaying (in a way that becomes mostly fantasy roleplaying, but I digress...) to the next level and choose to live it out in their day to day life. Today she posted this message. She acknowledges that the 1950s had social problems. Which...okay. Thumbs up to that, it definitely did. Then she goes into this (imho) weird rant about how yes, some people supported segregation, but not everyone, and some people "vehemently" opposed segregation.  For example, her grandfather from Tennessee was a great guy who taught his kids to treat people the same regardless of ethnicity or backgrounds. He still remembers how angry he felt when "white men got to sit down on the bus and black ladies had to stand up [tear emoji]. She also apparently grew up in black gospel churches. Now, I don't know her, her family, or her grandfather, so I'm going to take these statements at face value. There were southerners who opposed segregation. Statistically, there weren't many, but again, I didn't know her grandfather. Of note, she doesn't specifically say he opposed segregation, just that he didn't like it when African-American women had to get up when white men got on the bus. 

Ahem. After tacitly acknowledging how God-awful segregation was/is, she then launches into how "the old-fashioned values that I want to bring back from the 50s are looking out for your neighbor, loving God, country, and family, valuing people over things, and trying to make the best of every situation no matter how hard it seems." That these are not the only values from the 1950s isn't worth mentioning. The fact that the 1950s are a horrific decade for a lot of populations is also beside the point,  I guess. The fact that the values she listed are stereotypes born of simulacra. and that the "looking out for your neighbor" rarely crossed the color barrier, that "loving God, country, and family" bore the McCarthy-era witch-hunts, that valuing people over things apparently included conditions that lead to a steelworkers strike in 1952 and the Atlanta transit strike of 1950, and that "trying to make the best of every situation no matter how hard it seems" included women who were trapped in abusive marriages and children who had to get tough and endure sexual abuse because no one would believe them appears to be lost on her entirely.

But hey, she grew up reading vintage memoirs from the time she was five and she's convinced "the olden days" are better than today. Because I'm sure she's reading memoirs from a cross-section of people from varied backgrounds and socio-economic statuses, life experiences, and education. Because poor people who struggled to read and write because of segregated and/or rural schools TOTALLY wrote memoirs about how great the 1950s were.

Then she unironically uses the hashtag "#donnareed." SMDH. If she's going to do this, she needs to acknowledge that there's privilege inherent to what she's play-acting. 

 

 

That is a LOT of makeup.  JRod level, even.

[PennySycamore]

I was born with 1930s/1940s hair.  I remember a spread in Ingenue magazine around 1968 on Bonnie and Clyde inspired fashions.  The female model (Jean White?) had red lips, midi skirts, and short hair that was flat and smooth on top with curls below.  I've seen Betty Davis wear her hair like this in many of her films from the '30s and she was not the only actress to do so.  

Platform shoes and wedgies were first popular in "40s.  Padded shoulders were a feature of 1940s women's jackets and were so much better done that the 1980s monstrosities which seemed inspired by football shoulder pads not the shoulder pads in men's jackets as were the '40s version. 

I don't wear much '40s fashion at the moment because as @Red Hair, Black Dress said, the clothes are not made for us fluffy women.  Especially us fluffy women of a certain age.  

Now, my youngest daughter is not exactly skinny, but she can wear '40s inspired fashion quite well.  I don't know if she considers her clothes as being inspired by the 40s, but I can see it. 

Pam, on RetroReovation, has a section on her website reminding us that there were a lot of really bad things about the 40s, 50s, and 60s.  She also once had a story about a dollhouse made in the early 60s with a bomb shelter.  

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

In grad school I had the coolest dinette set ever -- table and 6 chairs bought in a yard sale for $35 (a lot to a poor student, but peanuts now).  It had one owner and was in nearly mint condition.  A sliver grey marble chrome edge top with black stenciled roses around the border of the top.  Silver-grey pebbled naugahyde and chrome chairs.  The chrome was perfect, not a scratch or speck of rust. The naugahyde had 0 rips.

Alas, when I left grad school I had nowhere to store it for the summer before moving for my new job in August.  My mother adamantly refused to let me store "that piece of junk" as she called it in the basement. I sold it for $50 to a student moving into his first apt.

I still mourn that dinette set.  It's probably worth a fortune now

[Four is Enough]

On 10/12/2019 at 1:11 PM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I love vintage styles, particularly 40s anf 50s, but they are not made for anyone over size 14.  A vintage size 12 is for a 30 inch bust. 

To you and @PennySycamore, I will say this: If you sew, and if you can read directions, go to the library, go to the Goodwill, go to your vintage sewing store, and find a book called "Fitting Finesse" by Nancy Zieman. I'm pretty sure it's out of print,but you CAN enlarge those gorgeous patterns of yore... (my favorites  are from the 40s) and make something to suit yourself. i am a large woman myself, and I have several old patterns.. we're talking not even with seam lines... and have enlarged patterns.

[PennySycamore]

@Four is Enough,  I love Nancy Zieman!  Create TV still runs her shows.  RIP, Nancy!

That's a great idea to enlarge those old patterns.  Several of us in the family can use that bit of wisdom, including my middle daughter that sews.  One of us has my grandmother's old Singer.  My grandmother was an avid quilter and won numerous ribbons at the fair.  She sewed other thing, as well, because that's what you did when she was raising kids 90 years ago..

[Four is Enough]

13 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@Four is Enough,  I love Nancy Zieman!  Create TV still runs her shows.  RIP, Nancy!

That's a great idea to enlarge those old patterns.  Several of us in the family can use that bit of wisdom, including my middle daughter that sews.  One of us has my grandmother's old Singer.  My grandmother was an avid quilter and won numerous ribbons at the fair.  She sewed other thing, as well, because that's what you did when she was raising kids 90 years ago..

There are directions to increase generally, but then there are also specifi directions... "If you shoulders and hips are normal, but you are large busted" kinds of directions.. I love this book and have used it often. Takes pins, a tape measure, and maybe a sloper, and paper... Happy sewing!!

[Smee]

This photo was from a friend’s wedding - she’s the one in white holding a bunch of dead roses and being walked in by her dad in the bikie leather. She had a designer friend make her dress. The bridesmaids are the other girls - all their dresses were from op shops (thrift stores).