Jump to content
  • Sky
  • Blueberry
  • Slate
  • Blackcurrant
  • Watermelon
  • Strawberry
  • Orange
  • Banana
  • Apple
  • Emerald
  • Chocolate
  • Charcoal
Sign in to follow this  
GenerationCedarchip

Has Anything Taken the Place of VF?

Recommended Posts

JermajestyDuggar

It’s just so fundie to rewrite history :5624795033223_They-see-me-rollinroll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VVV
On 11/20/2018 at 1:07 PM, hoipolloi said:

Jennie Chancey, after spending a few years among apparently non-fundie hipsters in South Africa, now says that her inspiration for having 12 kids was Cheaper By the Dozen:

Nary a mention there of passionate housewives, the horrors of feminism, quiverfull, or VF.

Why, even Matt -- the original homeschool know-it-all -- now indicates he's attending the LSE:

Matt Chancey CV Info.png

Jennie Chancey can't read for comprehension. The eldest Gilbreth child was born in 1905 with the others coming along every year or two after that. Only the youngest few could be said to have been brought up in the 1920s and 1930s. 

Edited by VVV
clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mrs. Bean

Wow Jannie Chancey is straight up lying now! What about her collaboration with the crazy Lady Lydia Sherman and all those English gentry affectations? They did start the infamous Ladies Against Feminisms together and ran it together for some time. 

Also, I have the VF DVD Monstrous Regiment of Women where she is prominently featured and her QF believes were  definitely not influenced by the Cheaper by the Dozen. 

  • Upvote 7
  • I Agree 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoipolloi
9 hours ago, Mrs. Bean said:

her QF believes were  definitely not influenced by the Cheaper by the Dozen. 

Well, that was THEN and this is NOW.

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 2
  • I Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JermajestyDuggar

That’s such bullshit. Lillian Gilbreth worked with her husband the whole time she had kids and then worked for many years after her husband’s early death. She was basically a pioneer of industrial and organizational psychology. Does she realize that Lillian was basically a feminist back then? Would she go to work full time if her husband died tomorrow? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Howl
17 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She was basically a pioneer of industrial and organizational psychology.

I realized this name sounded familiar!  Lilian Gilbreth was referenced in The Motion-Minded Kitchen (Sam Clark, 1985).  She pioneering studies in kitchen efficiency. Reading that book (now out of print) helped me build up two kitchens and I just lent it to a friend who will be remodeling her kitchen. 

I just googled Sam Clark and he has a more current book out through Taunton Press called Remodeling a KitchenA

A big shout out to @GenerationCedarchip for starting this thread; I'm enjoying it  immensely.  The sociological insights into coffee, Mormons, current fundy trends, homeschooling,  Episcopalian angst, current Chauncy, by various posters has been great. 

Edited by Howl
  • Upvote 8
  • Thank You 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
elsiedindin

I was homeschooled in a VF/ATI-adjacent community. When my mother began to homeschool me as a small child, homeschooling was considered such an odd choice that even the pediatrician tried to talk her out of it. We were HSLDA members, protested at the state capitol, all of it. By the time I "graduated" homeschool high school, homeschooling was more or less mainstream. 

For young men in the group, generally they would cultivate special interests as a sort of affectation. Depending on the particular youth, it could be coffee, weaponry, Calvinism or computer programming. Obviously tobacco and alcohol were out, so you had to do something. 

Young women were not expected to have particular interests. Being thin, pretty, good at handicrafts and delighted with all babies always seemed to be much more important than anything intellectual. My math instructor (at the co-op, since defunct, which was at the center of the community) told me that I wasn't smart enough to go to college. I was told at girl's bible studies that wanting to go to college or god forbid have a career were temptations of the devil, and it was taken for granted that mental illness was just another secular phrase for satanic possession.

I think the (unsurprising) negative personal and criminal outcomes resulting from my cohort had something to do with the co-op closing. The destruction of VF happened after I left home, but suffice it to say the foundations were well eroded by that stage. The failure of the Gothardesque family and education model was devastating to parents and many  of them seemed to have given up, sending younger siblings to private schools or even public schools in a few cases. 

It was fascinating to watch HSLDA  and similarly aligned organizations implode. Once homeschooling entered the mainstream, they didn't seem to have much use anymore. It turns out, once most people are at least generally okay with your movement (that homeschooling should be legal) it's really hard to rally anyone to your cause. Additionally, the whole project of Christian Dominion isn't something you can proclaim quite so loudly once your homeschooling co-op is full of "mainstream" types. Which if nothing else is a good thing for homeschooled kids whose families are still repressive and crazy, because at least now they have a better chance of seeing families who aren't like that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meh
refugee

@elsiedindin sounds very familiar.

One thing you said puzzled me. You said the closing of the co-op closing led to criminal outcomes? Or the other way around?

Has HSLDA really imploded? We’ve been “out” for some years now, but I still remember how they put the fear of CPS into us.

Edited by refugee
Hit button too soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ladyjanegrey

RE: the Gilbreths.  

Frank Gilbreth Sr. wasn't a Christian. He would drive his family to church on Sunday mornings and then wait in the car. When Lillian asked him to come join them (she didn't appreciate the stares from the other parishioners), he said something along the lines of, "When I stand before my Maker, I want him to know I got here because of my own merit, not because I had to rely Jesus." Frank Sr. also had disdain for the clergy. Evidently on when of his trips to Europe (he went by ship), there were clergy who would preach about being righteous but would pinch the waitresses'/maids' asses, and Frank was disgusted by that behavior. 

Also, the Gilbreth parents strongly pushed college on their children- all their children, including the girls. After Frank Sr. died, Anne (the oldest daughter) volunteered to forego college so she could work and contribute to the family income. Lillian declined the offer, saying it had been very important to Frank that all his children go to college. 

I learned this from Frank Gilbreth Jr. and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey's book, Cheaper by the Dozen. (And yes, Ernestine was a co-writer on the book- when I was a child, my family got a catalog from some homeschool company that was selling Cheaper by the Dozen and under author they only listed Frank Gilbreth Jr. and that irritated me.)

So if any fundie is out there and they're excited about any back-in-old-days family that had double-digit-number of kids, maybe do your research before you get excited about this family. 

  • Upvote 4
  • I Agree 6
  • Thank You 3
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoipolloi

Thanks to those here who've set the record straight on who Frank & Lillian Gilbreth really were and how they chose to raise their kids. If you know anything at all about the Gilbreths, you know how passionate (get it, Jennie - "passionate"?) Frank and Lillian were about education, especially college, for ALL of their kids. This theme runs through both of the memoirs. IOW, you can't miss it if you actually read the books.

All that said, if Jennie Chancey is now using the Gilbreths as her role models in life, let's hope she'll also follow their lead and encourage all of HER kids to pursue higher education, if they wish to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
elsiedindin
44 minutes ago, refugee said:

@elsiedindin sounds very familiar.

One thing you said puzzled me. You said the closing of the co-op closing led to criminal outcomes? Or the other way around?

Has HSLDA really imploded? We’ve been “out” for some years now, but I still remember how they put the fear of CPS into us.

Sorry if it was unclear. Some of the kids in my year broke the law and ended up facing charges. Many of us had pretty poor outcomes, compared to what was promised by the VF types. That absolutely played a part in the co-op closing.

I should have said HSLDA still exists, but it's no longer so influential. Mike Farris is an incredibly self-serving man and mainly used HSLDA to build his career and launch PHC. Once he did that, he could not have cared less about HSLDA or its members. It's such a shambolic organization anyway, a convenient method of providing jobs for homeschooled grads of law school by correspondence. Now their tagline is "homeschooling -- it's legal today, tomorrow is up to you" which I think says a lot about how much has changed. Their website also hasn't had a substantial redesign in seven or eight years. They'll still try to put the fear of CPS into you, but their organization just doesn't matter anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GenerationCedarchip

Interesting that Jennie Chancey is now citing Cheaper by the Dozen. I know a lot of folks from VF circles who have really reexamined their beliefs and changed a lot of things. I've wondered if the Chancey rebranding was part of this or if it was just an image thing. I know some folks in common with them offline but it's not something we'very discussed.   I'd wondered about their sudden flight from South Africa, too.

Where they've settled in Alabama is actually near some old friends of mine who have long been active in the homeschool community. From what I hear, they play up their interest in cosplay and all things retro/vintage but keep their past more firmly under wraps outside their inner circle.

I know several of the oldest children are at or near college/vocational-training age. I'd be interested to know what they're doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoipolloi
33 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I'd wondered about their sudden flight from South Africa, too.

Jennie's been pretty open about that. The relevant SA ministry essentially revoked or terminated the visa on which they'd been residing in SA for some years. Don't know the technicalities but don't think it was anything nefarious -- just a government agency exercising its right to make such determinations in accordance with a (possible) change in policy or law. Once this happens, SA doesn't give you much time to leave -- just weeks.

33 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I've wondered if the Chancey rebranding was part of this or if it was just an image thing.

Perhaps it's had more to do with the Chanceys living among (apparently) non-fundie folks while in SA. Would be great for their kids if the Chanceys' eyes & minds have indeed opened, and if they've now abandoned all of the crap they, especially Jennie, pushed on other people while being toadies for VFI/VFM. FWIW, Jennie recently complained in a comment on a SA friend's IG feed that she (Jennie) was now living in "Walmart Land" in AL.

Nonetheless, it's worth noting that like many other former VFI/VFM groupies, they're all still buddies on social media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MamaJunebug

Well, well, well!

I guess in light of Jennie's evolution into the mainstream, I’m not surprised that she sold a ticket on her latest cosplay Euro tour to a very openly  gay young tailor who only dresses in clothing styles from the late 1700s-early 1800s.  Makes a living sewing outfits for customers.  Pinsent Tailoring.

I was just agape to see him credit s_and_s_patterns 

He’s fabulous, and I say that in all sincerity. Whether or not he’s aware of her troglodytic attitudes on many things, who knows.  Maybe she doesn't have a problem with gays.  Certainly she’s around more than a few in costuming circles.

 

 She may be moving toward college for her children, male & female, but she’s still a side-winding phony IMHO. And a buck’s a buck.  Sell those tour spaces! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.