Lori Alexander 71: She of Appalling Ignorance

[Lgirlrocks]

9 minutes ago, Petronella said:

Lori said: "Do we care more about what we want and what's best for us (women's rights) or do we care more about children and about what's best for them?"

So, she's acknowledging that feminism is better for women? Sure sounds like it.

Also, what a ridiculous false dichotomy. My rights and my motherhood are not at odds.

She also said: "Society has suffered greatly without women in the home. Who is caring for the children, helping with the grandchildren, caring for the aging parents and sick neighbors and friends?"

The answer is: not Lori!! She occasionally looks after grandkids, but looking after aging parents? Are you kidding? She couldn't be bothered to even be *present* for a *dying* parent, or her hospitalized husband. And this isn't while she had pressing obligations elsewhere; she was *on vacation*, and not even a once-in-a-lifetime far-away vacation, but an ordinary one of daily lounging in a familiar place. And am I right that she didn't support Alyssa with her recent new baby? Have we ever heard about any neighbor except for the one whose house she used as an example ungodly messiness?

Her whole shtick is that her early married life, in which she worked, used birth control, was controlling towards her husband, sent her kids to school, etc etc etc, was at odds with being the "right" kind of wife. But she is the right kind of wife now, right? Transformed, right? Which is awfully convenient now when she's past fertility, past continuing homeschooling, and personally has no particular interests or talents. The "servant" sort of things she has left to do as an empty-nester, according to her limited theology, are serving her parents, her grandkids, her husband, her community. I see no evidence of her managing even that.

Her use of "staying at home" reminds of the way "homeschooling" gets used sometimes. There are many different ways to homeschool; just because your kids aren't going to school doesn't mean you're doing a good job of educating them. I've seen homeschool families who have little rigor or resources hold up homeschool kids who have gone to Harvard or become chess champions or whatever as examples of how "homeschooling works!" But what the families of those successful homeschoolers did was above and beyond just "not going to school." Likewise, Lori is staying at home in that she's "not going to work." That's it. Being an active keeper at home (by her definition)? NOT AT ALL.

What many people who chose to home school don’t understand is how much work it takes. It’s not like the olden days where all you needed to know was basic math and how to read. Even if you don’t plan on sending your kids to college, or maybe they don’t want to go, they still need to be educated enough to be able to educate the next generation. Every generation is smarter than the last because of our knowledge growing. Kids need to be around other kids. My mom home schooled three kids. My oldest brother was homeschooled all the way through and I went out for school in the eighth grade and my younger brother went out for school for high school. She said it was too hard to home school three kids. I still don’t know why she did it if it was so hard. My younger brother and I suffered academically because she invested all of her time and energy into my older brother. 

[Petronella]

4 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

What many people who chose to home school don’t understand is how much work it takes. It’s not like the olden days where all you needed to know was basic math and how to read. Even if you don’t plan on sending your kids to college, or maybe they don’t want to go, they still need to be educated enough to be able to educate the next generation. Every generation is smarter than the last because of our knowledge growing. Kids need to be around other kids. My mom home schooled three kids. My oldest brother was homeschooled all the way through and I went out for school in the eighth grade and my younger brother went out for school for high school. She said it was too hard to home school three kids. I still don’t know why she did it if it was so hard. My younger brother and I suffered academically because she invested all of her time and energy into my older brother. 

I think homeschooling can be a great option. We did it with both of our kids until they were teens. But, yes, it for sure is a LOT of work! Whether or not it's a good choice for a kid and a family depends on a lot of factors. I'm glad when your mom saw it wasn't working well she was open to change.

[Lgirlrocks]

1 hour ago, Petronella said:

I think homeschooling can be a great option. We did it with both of our kids until they were teens. But, yes, it for sure is a LOT of work! Whether or not it's a good choice for a kid and a family depends on a lot of factors. I'm glad when your mom saw it wasn't working well she was open to change.

She was forced into it. I begged to go out for school and finally got my wish in the eighth grade. My younger brother had to go out for school because my mom was working two jobs at the time and my dad was to sick to homeschool him. My younger brother got in trouble because he wasn’t doing his school work on his own. 

[wallysmommy]

I can summarize everything into two words: "she's nuts."  Or as I describe her to my bff -- "the crackpot in California." 

[Hane]

@Petronella, a friend has a friend who is the mother of 10 and homeschools because she frankly admits she’s incapable of getting all ten kids up, dressed, fed, and onto the school bus on time. This makes me wonder about her ability to homeschool.

A colleague’s husband, who works at home doing IT and marketing gourmet products, insisted on homeschooling their kids because he considered the local public schools “lousy.” His website, which he designed and populates himself, is a morass of misspellings, bad grammar, and wayward punctuation.

[Petronella]

10 minutes ago, Hane said:

@Petronella, a friend has a friend who is the mother of 10 and homeschools because she frankly admits she’s incapable of getting all ten kids up, dressed, fed, and onto the school bus on time. This makes me wonder about her ability to homeschool.

A colleague’s husband, who works at home doing IT and marketing gourmet products, insisted on homeschooling their kids because he considered the local public schools “lousy.” His website, which he designed and populates himself, is a morass of misspellings, bad grammar, and wayward punctuation.

Oh my! That first one... How does the dissonance not register? I mean, sure I *liked* the slow, easy start to the day, ramping up without rushing. That was a perk of homeschooling. But *could* I have gotten them up and ready earlier if needed? Of course! Homeschooling allowed us to be organized on our own timetable, not to eschew organization altogether.

 

 

[klein_roeschen]

With the families here followed on FJ we see the most important issue why they homeschool and that's controll. In public school, they can't controll the informations their kids recieve and with whom they came in contact. And with controlling their shitty education and their social contacts only inside their fundy brand, they have a greater chance that their children will stay instead of leaving. And many are so smug about educating their children and think they do a better job than professional teachers. It would be a good joke, if it wouldn't be their children being the victims about their arrogance and controll.

If my parents would have been responsible for my education instead of sending me out in the morning to school, I would have gotten the Naugler brand of unschooling and would be barely literate, with the TV as only source of education.

[Petronella]

15 minutes ago, klein_roeschen said:

With the families here followed on FJ we see the most important issue why they homeschool and that's controll. In public school, they can't controll the informations their kids recieve and with whom they came in contact. And with controlling their shitty education and their social contacts only inside their fundy brand, they have a greater chance that their children will stay instead of leaving. And many are so smug about educating their children and think they do a better job than professional teachers. It would be a good joke, if it wouldn't be their children being the victims about their arrogance and controll.

If my parents would have been responsible for my education instead of sending me out in the morning to school, I would have gotten the Naugler brand of unschooling and would be barely literate, with the TV as only source of education.

The irony of their intense control is that, to my mind, it makes it MORE likely that kids will leave the fold. They grow up, they realise that some woman wearing jeans is a good person or that the NIV Bible is easier to read than the KJV, and, poof! Suddenly, by their parents' standards, they're sinning on a par with murderers. Once that ridiculousness is exposed, it's hard to go back.

Whereas if they've dealt with the normal world in all its diversity their whole lives, and seen their pious parents also doing so while still finding meaning, comfort, and wisdom in their faith, religion is more likely to make more sense and fit into their eventual grownup mindset.

Of course, there's no way of raising a child to guarantee any specific outcome. But the latter way seems a lot better to me.

[SongRed7]

Now THIS is the funniest thing I've seen all day....On Twitter, Lori is "quoting" that famous philosopher, great thinker,  racist misogynist fanboy Shaun Cantu as if he were Gandhi or Martin Luther King.   hahahahha. Good one, Lori!

TTW: "The serpent was the first to convince women that she was the victim. He did this in the garden with Eve. Convincing women they are victims is still one of his most useful tools." - Shaun Cantu

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by SongRed7

[wallysmommy]

"Convincing men they are superior and women are easily duped is still one of his most useful tools." - Wallysmommy.

[ladyicantxplain]

Shaun, you ignorant slut.  Shut up.

The problem with this mockery of women is that there really are women following Lori who are eating up her teachings like candy, and then wondering why life is getting more and more intolerable.

Like a woman whom I will call "Candace" (not her real name) who wrote Lori. It was forwarded it to us; I used to handle ministry to the "difficult" marriages. Read: ABUSIVE. (Lori called abusive marriages "difficult" to ease her conscience).

Anyway, Candace was beside herself. She reported having almost ten children, one of whom was a newborn. Her husband had forced intercourse while she was still bleeding postpartum. She was befuddled as to WHY he was such an asshat (my words) when she was "giving him everything, including sex when it hurt her and made her cry".  

At this point, I almost vomited.  

Then I saw her write that she busted her "Godly husband" buying little girls from a "shack" somewhere in the country, a couple hours from her home. She found the receipts and he admitted it.  

But, alas, all was to be well - for she had "called her pastor's wife" who had told her, "Don't worry honey, your husband is meeting with my husband, and your husband has REPENTED."

Yeah.

This woman is a victim.  And she is following LorKen.  And LorKen is doing NOTHING.

I called the police in the nation where this was taking place. It cost me money. Time. Vomit.  To this day, I don't know the outcome but I wonder about the wife and the babies and the shack full of girls.

Do you know what the wife said when I told her she was a victim?

"NO!  He loves me and he is getting help!"

I asked her if she had an email address without him on it (cause I wanted to ensure safe communication with her).

"NO! My husband says in our city my own email is not available. I don't drive, either.  We have only one car."

So, suck it, Shaun. And all the rest of your disgusting MGTOW or players or MRA or whatever you call yourselves.

 

There are real victims lurking on Lori's blog. And they reach out. And they get nothing from Lori.

 

 

 

[Free Jana Duggar]

I get so tired of the argument that women are more easily deceived.

Yes, the serpent tricked Eve. However, she thought to question what the serpent said. All the Bible says about Adam is that he took the fruit and ate it. No "OMG, Eve! What have you done?" Nothing.

Doesn't sound like he was too smart either...

[Liza]

@ladyicantxplain   I had to read what you wrote 3 times ... it's awful.  You are saying this woman wrote Lori, who did what? Forwarded it to you to handle?  What did Lori say to this woman.  This woman reads Lori's drivel about submission I presume & this happened in the chat room?  I guess I am just in shock.  He was literally raping his wife and little girls?  Do I have this right?   Makes me sick.  I know this stuff goes on but for this woman to believe her Pastor that all this man needed was a talking to & to repent?  No friggin way.  He will continue to do it.  

If you feel you cannot say any more, I understand.  Just found it so upsetting that someone enduring that would go to Lori for help.  Unless I have misread your words.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Liza

[ladyicantxplain]

58 minutes ago, Liza said:

I know this stuff goes on but for this woman to believe her Pastor that all this man needed was a talking to & to repent?  No friggin way.  He will continue to do it.  

If you feel you cannot say any more, I understand.  Just found it so upsetting that someone enduring that would go to Lori for help.  Unless I have misread your words.

Liza - no, you didn't misread my words. I wish you had, honestly. It is upsetting.

This had nothing to do with the chat room, as far as I know. This was an incoming email from a woman not in the USA, who reached out to Lori. Without breaking confidentiality (for others I minister with), let's just say it got forwarded to my email. Lori probably did not know that it was forwarded to me to answer and that I would be the one ministering to "Cadence".  I can almost guarantee you that if she had known that, she would not have forwarded it to the "difficult marriage" ministers. I think it is safe to put it that way.

I still have the email. There isn't any way to share it here without actually endangering the woman and exposing her identity.

This woman went to Lori the same way I once went to Lori: by email. I have no idea if Lori gave her any advice. This woman was in survival mode and in trauma when she responded to my email. Her concern was to protect the provider (her husband) at all costs. My suggestions that she was unsafe were seen as ludicrous; she was not in her right mind and needed immediate intervention from someone locally. Unfortunately, she did not continue to communicate with me and I suspect it was because her husband shared the email account and it wasn't secure for her to do so.

This is why I now speak out about Lori and Ken. 

Lori needs to wake up. This is not some kind of cute "game" on the interwebz. This stuff is REAL. There are REAL women and children. This stuff can be life and death.

Lori has no business ministering or calling herself a minister of the Gospel at this time, until something radical changes.

It should have been Lori who called appropriate authorities immediately upon reading Cadence's writings. Any pastor knows they are a mandatory reporter, spiritually speaking, even if the "law" doesn't require it.

Here's the good news: in the nation where this occurred, we believe (myself and some of my contacts in that city locally) that the pastor of the church where Cadence went was actually deported from the nation, due to wrongful acts in the church he was pastoring. We believe that "church" has been shut down. This gives me hope that Cadence and women like her can get help from secular sources since it cannot be hidden in this evil "church".

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by ladyicantxplain
needed to add the good news/update at end

[Koala]

This is Lori:

Lori is outraged that some states are allowing women to go topless.  

Spoiler

Never fear, though, Lori has a plan!  She thinks that perhaps she and her readers should move somewhere cold- like the North Pole.  (I am not even kidding)

Spoiler

After some thought, Lori realizes that moving to the North Pole might not be the easiest way to avoid topless women.  

Her plan B. is for the sheeple to avoid beaches.  You know...like the one Lori constantly goes to.  Yeah, that.

Good plan, Lori.  

Spoiler

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by hoipolloi

[SongRed7]

4 hours ago, ladyicantxplain said:

Lori needs to wake up. This is not some kind of cute "game" on the interwebz. This stuff is REAL. There are REAL women and children. This stuff can be life and death.

For those of you who follow Sheila Wray Gregoire of the To Love, Honor and Vacuum blog (I personally like her and believe she makes a lot of sense...I don't always agree, but is kind, thoughtful, listens to dissenting opinions, and is open to discussions) she had a blog post on this very topic this week. She shared a post from a male pastor who called out how this deplorable behavior has been encouraged through it's inaction.   Here is the article.   It was a breath of fresh air:  https://churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/298145-enough-enough-church-stop-enabling-abusive-men.html?fbclid=IwAR37l4c-dWBaFgDa-K2ljy8vR7HhVaI2uAyNl7_xt5MnmqIP0NO2KLK3_Ag

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by SongRed7

[SongRed7]

Regarding the new "going topless" video: 

1. She sure is obsessed with breasts. I felt creeped out when she said "especially pretty ones"
2. Assumes there are no Christians in any other country and America is the gold standard for being Godly
3. Assumes just because women may be allowed to go topless in some states (I looked it up, that law is Oklahoma is still fuzzy) that women will throw off their shirts and bras en mass and bare-breasted women will be everywhere.  For the record, they could make laws making going topless MANDATORY and I for one would never comply! LOL.. No bare boobs for this chick!  While some may feel free to do this, I really, really don't think most/any women are going to the grocery store, driving, standing in the line at the bank, having a parent/teacher conference, going to a restaurant, etc. topless.  I just can't see that happening. Her arguments are just silly.
4. She sure is obsessed with breasts (and thongs).
5. If you don't like it Lori, how about this: Just don't look!

Edited October 2, 2019 by SongRed7

[squiddysquid]

You know what people up north love? Saunas!

Public ones where women and men go in stark naked and then jump into ice lakes to cool off.

A lot of people have saunas in their own homes and have snowball fights in their yards afterwards, she could end up seeing naked people from her own kitchen window

(tell me you're kidding about the North Pole thing, I'm never sure with Lori)

[MeanieMe]

Initially I registered here to read and comment on the Gwen Shamblin thread. I've been reading those threads nearly daily for well over a year. I've had a VERY bad eating disorder but have completely eradicated it, so the Gwen stuff is beyond fascinating for me. From there, I started to read about Lori Alexander; I hadn't heard about here before, but I've gone down that rabbit hole because she reminds me SO much of my own mother.

My mum didn't home-school me, that would have demanded a bit of time and effort, but she was -I'm no longer in contact with her - a preachy, hyprocritical, holier-than-thou person who hates women because she wants to be the only one who gets the mens' attention. I'm a woman and I've always been put after brother. Needless to say that 20 years later, with such a mother (and father), I'm still in psychotherapy for severe depression, and I'm only a stay-at-home mum because I'm unable to work because of that illness, not because of lack of education. English isn't my mother tongue BTW.

I've read all about Lori. Sometimes I wonder if she's not trying to make her money on being the hate-figure, and purposely says the most hate-worthy things just to be in the lime-light. Bad attention is better than nothing!

About home-schooling, that's ludicrous. Even if the mother has enough skill and knowledge to teach her kids to a proper academic level, school is also about learning how to interact socially with other kids. How to deal with others. It's not just academic knowledge. The only reason Lori harks about women not going to college is because she was to stingey to pay for it for her two daughters, so she had to come up with that lame excuse. Defence mechanism!

I LOVE reading you all. I've had some good laughs. I also love reading about the Shamblin stuff, that's so crazy it's become beyond fascinating....

Edited October 2, 2019 by MeanieMe
i needed to change "him" to "brother" because not understandable

[mango_fandango]

I’d be ok teaching primary-level stuff to my kids, and probably secondary school level French and German. Not the other stuff though. Higher-level maths and science, no chance. I would never homeschool anyway, though. There are online schools that you can enroll your kids in, but that costs quite a bit of money. 

[smittykins]

I never had kids, but I would have never considered homeschooling because I know I would majorly suck at it.  I would have left it to the people who are, you know, trained to teach.

(No shade intended to homeschooling FJers.  I have no doubt you do it right. ?)

[usmcmom]

I get stabby when Lori talks about homeschooling. I don’t know of any reasonable person who would say Lori homeschooled her children well. By her own words, she had her kids do some math sheets and read a lot. Her boys spent their afternoons surfing. Add to that the fact that she moved her kids in and out of public school to homeschool to private school, it’s a wonder they aren’t all bumbling idiots like their parents.  

And! Considering Ken is such a command man, it is very interesting that he allowed for this kind of “education” for his children. 

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

17 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I get so tired of the argument that women are more easily deceived.

Yes, the serpent tricked Eve. However, she thought to question what the serpent said. All the Bible says about Adam is that he took the fruit and ate it. No "OMG, Eve! What have you done?" Nothing.

Doesn't sound like he was too smart either...

If the implication is that Adam was not deceived but rather ate of the fruit knowingly and willfully, isn't that worse from a moral standpoint? Or, if he was deceived, why did it take the devil to deceive the woman, but only a woman to deceive the man?

I personally don't believe there was any true deceit involved. Slightly rambling commentary on the Genesis 3 account ahead, which I'm going to put in a spoiler so as not to derail or make anyone work their scrolling finger too hard. I am not a scholar, I'm just bored and you got me thinking.

Spoiler

A cursory examination of the original language of Genesis 3:4-5 where the serpent is talking to Eve seems to show that everything he said was technically true. He told her two things: "You will not surely die", and "God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil". This commentary describes a more accurate translation of the serpent's first promise as, "You will not very suddenly die"- which was true. The second was confirmed by God himself in verse 22: "Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil."

Depending on how literally you want to take the account of Genesis, I think it's reasonable to assume that Eve could easily have been conscious of the difference between what God meant by "die" and what the serpent meant by "die". There seems to be markedly different context for each phrase in the original language. If one of the things the serpent said was technically true, and the other was fully true, was Eve actually deceived in the first place? It seems to me that she made a conscious choice, knowing full well that the serpent was twisting the truth. When Eve said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate” in verse 13, she is attempting to remove blame from herself, just as Adam did. Just because Eve said she was deceived doesn't make it true, and just because Adam blamed Eve doesn't make her responsible for his sin. I don't believe that either of them was actually fully deceived, but that both intentionally chose to disobey.

In regards to the serpent -> Eve -> Adam progression of sin, I think this interpretation also pretty much invalidates the long-standing perception of women as temptresses who innately lead men into sin. In my (admittedly nearly entirely unqualified) opinion, Adam saw the empirical fact that Eve had eaten the fruit and not died, and chose to do so himself. Verse 6 also states that Adam was with her. From what I can gather, the word used for "with" means "directly next to" and does not indicate a change in position- Adam may have witnessed this entire exchange. I don't know if this is common, but I was taught that she went and found Adam and convinced him that the fruit was good. Eve did not convince, cajole, deceive, or tempt: she merely "gave", and Adam ate of his own free will.

Interestingly enough, the consequences of their actions did not begin until after Adam had eaten- or rather, until they both head eaten. "She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked." I don't know if it was the fact that Adam ate that triggered the change, or that they had both eaten, but my preexisting egalitarian ideology biases me towards the latter. I really have no idea what would have happened if Adam  had not eaten, or if it had gone the other way around with Adam eating first. I have heard that Adam was at greater fault because he should have supervised and led his wife, but there is no indication of that whatsoever in the previous chapter. BUT, I've just realized that the initial command to not eat the fruit was given only to Adam in Genesis 2:16-17, before Eve was created in verses 21-23. This could indicate that Adam was incomplete or imperfect in relaying the message to Eve, causing her to be ill-prepared for temptation. But I digress, I'm getting out of my depth here.

I am not a scholar, and do not claim to actually be correct- but to me, this is a defensible interpretation of the account of the fall that places equal responsibility on both the man and the woman. I also believe that the Genesis account is largely metaphorical and allegorical, and should not be taken literally; however, I do think there is merit in examining what the literal wording implies.

Re: the Lori screencaps: Why are her eyes always wide open, in every single one? Is she trying to look insane? Her eyeballs must be as dry and crusty as her soul. Also, sincere thanks to @Koala for watching so that we don't have to put ourselves through that trauma. Also, does she know what cold temperatures do to nipples? Make them gasp more prominent! How sinful!

5 hours ago, Koala said:

Never fear, though, Lori has a plan!  She thinks that perhaps she and her readers should move somewhere cold- like the North Pole.  (I am not even kidding)

 

@MeanieMe, I think you've hit the nail on the head with a lot of that. I hadn't thought about her being so anti-college to defend not paying for her own daughters, but it does make sense- especially considering how much of that argument is about debt.

In regards to homeschooling, my own mother homeschooled five children, on an enlisted military salary while my dad was deployed for half my childhood. She had a degree and a teaching credential, but more importantly she worked herself to the bone towards the goal of raising thinking, educated adults. Oh, and she actually loves her children like crazy. Thinking about Lori having to work even 10% that hard or love 10% that much is laughable. But then again, comparing Lori to my selfless, loving mother is like comparing Yzma from Emperor's New Groove to Santa Clause.

[wallysmommy]

Homeschooling wasn't even on my parents' radar when we were growing up.  My mom worked in a "man's job" as a mechanical drafter before I was born, then after my brother was born, until the oil company moved.  When my dad was in high school in the '40s, he wanted to be an English teacher, but that didn't work out because of the life situation in West Virginia.  He probably would have loved homeschooling us.  But he was --gasp -- a man!  

Now, on to LL.  How exactly does going topless relate to keepers at home?  Clothing is a human construct.  If we go to heaven, we will be spirits, so we won't be wearing clothes.  

Finally, her cheeks are sunken like a skeleton.  She looks like people who lose weight too fast, particularly those who go overboard on keto or have bariatric surgery and do not follow the diet plan correctly.  I'm two years younger than her, and she looks like she's 80.

[Lgirlrocks]

My boy friend and his siblings were home schooled for a year. His dad didn’t feel they were retaining anything so they went back out for school. They weren’t in a great school district. When his sister was in high school she was given a choice of schools. She chose to be home schooled and go to a co op. Most parents don’t give their kids a choice. 

What Lori did was nothing. Having kids read and work on math worksheets is home work not home schooling. She also sent her kids to their rooms, not sure if this was when they were home schooled or not. 

If you love your kids why wouldn’t you want what’s best for them? This should include education too. It shouldn’t just be what’s convenient for parents but what is best for the child.