Duggars by the Dozen 38: What Can They Shill Next?

[Daisy0322]

8 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Just from man power point of view 10 able bodied young men can actually get a lot done. They can lift heavy things and open passage ways and such. I hope that those trained are using their skills but a lot of stuff needs doing that’s low skills. Like handing out cases of water. You need physical strength for that. They’re young and healthy, they have stamina for search and rescue. 

 

Yes I defended them. I’ll go sit in the prayer closet. 

I agree. Everyone is able to help in some way. And I do think it's discouraging to others to down play what help "low emergency skills" can provide. My concern is what are they going over there to do? Are they actually going to help or are they praying with people and handing out bibles? I don't have a issue if they are being legitimately helpful in the name of Jesus. But I do think they need to reread that thing about- 

1. Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2. those who exsult themselves being humbled and those who are humble being exsulted

... looking at you JB

[DarkAnts]

This man found a way to help. A way that is more useful than the Duggar's.

 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/04/us/man-buys-generators-bahamas-trnd/index.html?ofs=fbia

[llg1234]

In case anyone had any questions about who the Duggars support:

Anna posted a story giving Justin credit for this. I'm presuming she's referring to howler Justin.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

I have given up trying to understand how they can rationalize their support for Trump.  I mean I get it, but I really don't.

  @llg1234 my reaction was prompted by the content of your post and not directed at you.

[FrozenSmile]

Well, it seems they are actually working & making a difference, since CBS’ David Begnaud specifically mentioned the work that MedicCorp is doing there in his report this morning. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-dorian-survivor-on-abaco-islands-there-was-nothing-left/

Hopefully the link works, and it’s at the end where he mentions them. I guess i just don’t get why it’s bad that they are there helping. There’s a famous chef there serving food, which is awesome, but nobody is saying it’s bad that he’s there. I’m sure there will be other celebrities donating time & money in the relief effort, and they will be lauded as heroes. But a few of the Duggars are actually on the ground, helping people, and it’s a bad thing. Is it because they have a charity & are asking for donations? Because i can’t think of any charities that don’t ask for donations. Is it because it’s a new charity? New charities are started daily. ?‍♀️

Now, that Trump hay thing. That’s...something. Not at all surprising, but yikes, lol! 

 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

30 minutes ago, FrozenSmile said:

But a few of the Duggars are actually on the ground, helping people, and it’s a bad thing. Is it because they have a charity & are asking for donations? Because i can’t think of any charities that don’t ask for donations. Is it because it’s a new charity? New charities are started daily. ?‍♀️

It does look like they are actually doing something.  Hopefully they are coordinating with local authorities and not just being Christian cowboys.

However, you have to admit their charity looks sketchy from the outside.  It's name is strikingly similar to at least two other well-established relief charities, it magically pops up juuuust as a hurricane hits, the website is bare bones and offers virtually no information (AR mailing address/Philly contact number??), and the error-riddled 'press release' asks for donations totaling up to $20k for...what exactly?  I think our skepticism is well-justified.  

ETA:  And OBTW, their 'charity' hasn't been granted tax exempt status yet and was originally established as an LLC (a business), not a 501(c)3.  

Edited September 5, 2019 by Snarkasarus Rex
forgot stuffs

[Thorns]

They can apparently shill Trump. 

[nolongerIFBx]

22 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Just from man power point of view 10 able bodied young men can actually get a lot done. They can lift heavy things and open passage ways and such. I hope that those trained are using their skills but a lot of stuff needs doing that’s low skills. Like handing out cases of water. You need physical strength for that. They’re young and healthy, they have stamina for search and rescue. 

 

Yes I defended them. I’ll go sit in the prayer closet. 

You're not wrong. My cousin doesn't have medical training. He does work for a tree service. When a tornado hit Missouri recently, once it was daylight, he was one of the first people on the scene. He had the training to remove the trees still standing but not in good shape. (He'd also give young Arnold a run for his money in the biceps department so could help with heavy lifting if it was too delicate for machinery!)

As long as the Bates/Duggars are providing aid as they are directed by the organization directing rescue and clean up and not just doing their own thing as the fancy hits them, good on them. It's great that their "occupation" and wealth allow them the freedom to go help.

Even if done in a hurry, please, spell check your website. Give the password info to someone not traveling so that it can be fixed.

Edited September 5, 2019 by nolongerIFBx

[JillyO]

On 9/4/2019 at 7:29 PM, Daisy0322 said:

Everyone is able to help in some way. And I do think it's discouraging to others to down play what help "low emergency skills" can provide. 

Good. 99% of people should be discouraged from going to disaster zones.

I used to helpe organize an annual seminar on disaster relief for five years, and our speakers were well-respected experts in this area from organizations such as the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. The number one lesson that was stressed over and over again was this:

Most people mean well, and when they hear about a disaster striking, their first instinct is to run to the disaster zone and immediately start helping. DON'T.

Unless you are a specifically trained expert, the best thing you can do in the immediate aftermath of a disaster is to stay right where you are and financially support a reputable relief organization.

You may think "oh, but they are able-bodied young people, surely they can at least do some manual labor, and they're not causing anyone harm."

Well, you'd be wrong.

Think about it this way: There are many, many, many young, able-bodied people in the Bahamas who are able to do those exact same tasks, and are probably looking for some way to help right about now. They don't need some white savior Christians coming in to do manual labor they can easily do themselves. These white savior Christians, however well-meaning they may be, are using up valuable resources (food, uncontaminated drinking water, aircraft fuel, hotel rooms, etc. etc.) and diverting donations away from reputable relief organizations that are actually providing tangible help. Plus, imagine how much good the Duggars and Bateses could do if they donated their own money to, say, the Bahamas Red Cross Society, instead of wasting it on their own misguided trip, and even more so if they encouraged their followers to do the same.

And all of that is not even going into the extreme shadiness of founding your own "relief organization" that's incredibly close in name to an established one (Medicorps) and soliciting donations before you even have tax exempt status.

I'm sorry for the long rant, but this is an issue I am really passionate about. I know everyone's heart here is in the right place, but if you have ever supported a mission like the Duggars' or even just given them the benefit of the doubt that "at least they're doing something" or "they have good intentions and they're not causing any harm," I hope I have at least given you some food for thought because they are causing harm. You can cause a lot of harm even with the best of intentions.

 

[LacyMay]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

They don't need some white savior Christians coming in to do manual labor they can easily do themselves. These white savior Christians, however well-meaning they may be, are using up valuable resources (food, uncontaminated drinking water, aircraft fuel, hotel rooms, etc. etc.) and diverting donations away from reputable relief organizations that are actually providing tangible help.

This 100% this not to mention every few minutes that a reputable trained organization has to spend babysitting untrained volunteers is a few minutes that they aren't spending doing what they came there to do. When the infrastructure of a society has been effectively wiped out every.little.thing. has a ripple effect and takes away resources from something else. 

I'm not saying there isn't a need for aid red cross, the salvation army etc have well trained well organized staff and volunteers and the resources to make a tangible difference. If you feel compelled or called to help in a disaster situation get involved with one of these organizations get trained and work your way up. My FIL is the point person for the Salvation Army Emergency and Disaster Services in his region and because of that he's on call out lists. 

On 9/5/2019 at 10:21 AM, nolongerIFBx said:

You're not wrong. My cousin doesn't have medical training. He does work for a tree service. When a tornado hit Missouri recently, once it was daylight, he was one of the first people on the scene. He had the training to remove the trees still standing but not in good shape. (He'd also give young Arnold a run for his money in the biceps department so could help with heavy lifting if it was too delicate for machinery!)

This is 100% not the same thing as them jetting off to the Bahamas with a slapped together charity and very little experience offering aid in a disaster zone. If Lawson, Trace and Nathan drove down to Alabama the day after a tornado to offer tree clearing services I would be fine with it and likely even commend them. It's something they know how to do, have the experience and tools to do well, are "local" enough to bring other supplies such as food and water to contribute and the setting is different when the tornadoes hit Tuscaloosa parts of the city were still functional making it easier for resources (food, water, fuel) to get in and out.

Even when some of the older Duggars were part of a local fire dept called to Joplin I could be convinced that it wasn't a useless thing. 

Kudos to your cousin for finding a practical way to help his neighbors

[Pecansforeveryone]

@LacyMay and @JillyO, thank you a million times over for posting this! There are so many local needs that they could be contributing to from picking up trash along the highway to serving meals at the local soup kitchen to cleaning up tornado strewn debris one or two states away. Two huge pluses: 1.) Fundy raising needed might be relatively little or even nothing at all 2.) They know the area and culture and might actually have appropriate skills sets. 

Jill Rodriguez used a Go-Fund to raise money for her son's tuition. While I think college can be a wonderful thing and I was ecstatic for her son to have that opportunity what Jill did was to abuse and misuse something that is intended for great good. Go-Fund isn't meant to help raise funds for college tuition and no, the Duggars and Bates aren't doing any good in the Bahamas despite the very best of intentions. 

[Palimpsest]

On 9/5/2019 at 10:26 AM, FrozenSmile said:

Well, it seems they are actually working & making a difference, since CBS’ David Begnaud specifically mentioned the work that MedicCorp is doing there in his report this morning. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-dorian-survivor-on-abaco-islands-there-was-nothing-left/

Sorry, I get you claim to know and don't dislike the Duggars, but no.

My first thought was that the reporter was staying at the same hotel and they chatted him up.  My second thought was that their PR is good.  And my third thought was that reporter doesn't know what the hell he is is talking about. 

Anyway, all he said was that MedicCorp had "brought their own plane."  Plane, singular.  And that they had "volunteered to go and land on runways that had not been cleared yet."  He didn't say they had actually done it, so perhaps they were told by the officials in charge that they were out of their tiny minds.  If these jerks prang their kite on a runway without leaving time for people to clear it, there will just be more debris for real rescue workers to clear up.  To say nothing of a few dead or injured Duggars and Duggar adjacents to take attention away from the real crisis.  

Thanks @JillyO and @LacyMay for your clear explanations about why these naive and arrogant amateur volunteers often do far more harm than good.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Palimpsest

[DarkAnts]

The company I work for sent a few employees to Puerto Rico to help rebuild. They are a large company and have facility's there. They did not send anyone in until after the rescue effort was completed. They did not send anyone in that was not trained to do a skill that was valuable to the rebuilding effort. They sent a lot of supplies in with the volunteers. They also sent supplies before the volunteers came. They had a local connection and wanted to make sure their employees were taken care of. 

 

They posted something on the corporate website this week about how to help out. It talked about donating money to various agencies. They also talked about how money is better because the agencies can usually stretch a dollar and make it go further. 

[Vivi_music]

14 hours ago, JillyO said:

Think about it this way: There are many, many, many young, able-bodied people in the Bahamas who are able to do those exact same tasks, and are probably looking for some way to help right about now. They don't need some white savior Christians coming in to do manual labor they can easily do themselves. These white savior Christians, however well-meaning they may be, are using up valuable resources (food, uncontaminated drinking water, aircraft fuel, hotel rooms, etc. etc.) and diverting donations away from reputable relief organizations that are actually providing tangible help. Plus, imagine how much good the Duggars and Bateses could do if they donated their own money to, say, the Bahamas Red Cross Society, instead of wasting it on their own misguided trip, and even more so if they encouraged their followers to do the same

Thank you! It is hard to discuss issues in the humanitarian aid system, because people get very defensive. And I'm not talking about Fundies here. I have seen this reaction in very ''normal'' secular people. They don't understand why anyone would even hesitate before donating for certain projects or going down there to bring medical supply. Because of course, everyone wants to go build schools in Uganda, or help sick kids in the Philippines or be on the ground when poor countries face natural disasters. But like you said, choosing the right charity is super important and can really have consequences.

Mind you, I admit I have never done humanitarian work, nor am I a specialist, so correct me if I'm wrong. But I remember very strongly my ''Intro to African History'' class and our discussion about aid in that region of the world. I was astonished to realized that in a lot of African countries, foreign humanitarian work has strongly contributed to government abdicating their responsability to fund health care, education and infrastructure. Our professor was African, so I think his vision was based on his experience, but he was not anti-aid either. At least, he was advocating something that would empower the locals to make them part of that aid, to make them... well not dependant.

As for hurricane relief, I do not know if this is comparable. The aftermat of a natural disaster is not the same as endemic poverty (mind you, a lot of countries that have a hard time recover are poor and the recovery is long because of their poverty).  I find it so interesting how you and some others posters pointed out that locals (either in the Bahamas right now or in PR last year) are actually THERE on the ground and wish to help. Little dumb me never thought of that. To me at least, I would hope that some humanitarian group would help the locals get organized and make them part of their own relief.

And I won't start about people who go do humanitarian work with the idea of spreading the gospel. It makes me stabby.
 

[Thorns]

I usually donate to Kiva and Wikipedia, and Red Cross in times of disasters. Anyone that has a soap box moment on Kiva? 

[Daisy0322]

I've only done humanitarian type volunteering using my medical background and lnlybin my own country. I'm no expert. The stuff I do is more like free public screenings and neighborhood based check ups for women and kids. I work at a big inner city children's hospital and they organize it. 

[lumpentheologie]

1 hour ago, Thorns said:

I usually donate to Kiva and Wikipedia, and Red Cross in times of disasters. Anyone that has a soap box moment on Kiva? 

I used to donate to Kiva but stopped after I learned about their predatory lending practices. They have very, very high interest rates and fees on those loans, and a lot of the poor people they're supposedly supporting end up defaulting and just being driven deeper into poverty. Academic studies have shown that in the regions where Kiva operates there is no decrease in poverty.  Nowadays I'd rather just donate the money than help put poor people in debt.

Also the more I learn about the economic history of colonialism, the more I think everyone in the West owes a debt to people in former colonies for the money, resources, and labor that were violently extracted from them to fuel Western industrialization.  Lending them back some of that money at obscenely high interest rates as a form of "charity" is starting to seem perverse to me. 

Here's a good summary of the issues with Kiva: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2014/2/11/1276681/-The-joys-of-pretending-to-help-the-poor-The-Kiva-Story

[Peaches-n-Beans]

I don't know who's doing less for the Bahama's at the moment, the Duggars or Poonique   I-I mean younique. 

[Palimpsest]

It seems to be a good time to repost this link to an excellent documentary about charity and overseas aid attempts that go wrong: Poverty, Inc.

"From Toms Shoes to international adoptions, from solar panels to U.S. agricultural subsidies, drawing from over 200 interviews filmed in 20 countries, Poverty, Inc. unearths an uncomfortable side of charity we can no longer ignore."

It is free on Prime at the moment: https://www.amazon.com/Poverty-Inc-George-Ayittey/dp/B01AZ1CG1E

The documentary is a follow up to a very good series:  Poverty Cure.   First episode here.  https://www.amazon.com/Charity-That-Hurts/dp/B01M4P75I4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Poverty+Cure&qid=1567858373&s=instant-video&sr=1-1

[formergothardite]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:19 AM, FrozenSmile said:

i could care less what their motives are.

And that attitude is what ended up with untrained Nathan practicing dental care on children in an area he flew to. Yes, it does matter what their motives are. It matters a great, great deal. 

 

On 9/4/2019 at 1:42 PM, FrozenSmile said:

I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

They started an organization that has a very similar name to a real organization, a classic scam strategy. Lawson and Nathan have a long history traveling out of the country to exploit people who need help. Lawson just uses them as props and Nathan for his dental experimentation. Why are you giving them any benefit of a doubt? 

Edited September 7, 2019 by formergothardite

[Palimpsest]

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

And that attitude is what ended up with untrained Nathan practicing dental care on people on children in an area he flew to.

Say what?!!? 

Was that in the Philippines?   And how did I miss that? 

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Say what?!!? 

Was that in the Philippines?   And how did I miss that? 

I can't remember what country he flew to. I'm pretty sure it has been two different trips where Lawson just uses kids as selfie props and Nathan is shown doing dental work on children. 

Spoiler

 

[OyToTheVey]

Disclaimer: My own prospective. Others have probably experienced something completely different.

 

Since we're on this topic. After 9/11( I don't want to go into details about the actual day tbh), a lot of people I know stopped giving to Red Cross. It's not a bad organization but the way the crisis was handled pissed us NYCers off. There are 9 million New Yorkers plus countless other people workers/tourists/etc. They imported clerical and other employees from other cities and paid them a lot of money. I went to college right next to City Hall( about 4 blocks from ground zero) all of my fellow classmates were trying to help. But they wouldn't let us. Our school was closed for 3 weeks and used a first aid center. Red Cross spent a crazy amount of money paying employees when they could have had a ton of skilled people who had nothing to do but sit on their hands waiting for normal. It's quite disheartening when you witness something so tragic and can't actually be productive. After that I haven't been a fan of Red Cross. 

As far as I know, the same thing happened after Haiti. It's been really hard to believe them when you've seen the opposite. Money just disappears. 

[purjolok84]

I can't remember what country he flew to. I'm pretty sure it has been two different trips where Lawson just uses kids as selfie props and Nathan is shown doing dental work on children. 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Nope. Nope nope nope nope NOPE!

 

Dentistry takes dedication and (ongoing) training at a real dental school. Good oral health is so important and should always be part of a regular health check.

 

That some IDIOT FUNDIE is not only part of a fake medical charity group but is also using people from countries he visits to practise dental skills on with his dental costume on (I'm going on assume Nathan doesn't have a valid license to do what he does) makes me furious! How does this happen?

 

[squiddysquid]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I can't remember what country he flew to. I'm pretty sure it has been two different trips where Lawson just uses kids as selfie props and Nathan is shown doing dental work on children. 

  Hide contents

 

yup, Philippines

time to break out the old Barbie Savior - "called, not qualified"https://www.instagram.com/barbiesavior/