Dillards 74: The Dill in the Pickle

[mollysmom]

7 hours ago, apandaaries said:

During the Q & A, someone asks about finding a spouse despite not being "pure." David just looks aghast, so Priscilla takes over for him, discussing her parents and the status of both in regards to their virginity on the wedding day (hint: the good, godly Christian woman was able to forgive this saved man). MEchelle earns her nickname by prattling on about herself again, which is what she did in response to the question about how they felt about some of their daughters wearing pants.

But around 2 hours 4 minutes, JB talks about a 19 or 20 year old who'd been saved out of high school and was struggling.  JB inquired if the guy had any "homosexual tendencies." The dude broke down about how his two older brothers had "taken advantage of him when he was smaller and just how he'd had some problems in that area and stuff, well this guy ended up going and asking God to forgive him, and he got his life right with the Lord, and  went on and got married and  had a son and the lord has used him and he's done a lot of missionary work around the world. God has used him. So it doesn't matter what kind of sin...whatever, whatever it is, God can forgive, and your spouse can forgive." [bolding and italics mine]

JB is openly blaming the victim of molestation for being molested.  Again.  WTF is wrong with him that he can't learn?

It's so true that these horrible talks give so much more insight into their lives than the show does. But it's horrifying to see.

That's exactly what I got out of it too! My first thought was.....did I hear him right? There's no way he blamed the victim. So I rewinded and listened again....that's exactly what it sounds like jblob was sayng! That infuriated me!

[Glasgowghirl]

Jim Bob's comments under normal circumstances are horrible but when four of his own daughters have been abused by their son it's disgusting. Him and Michelle let it happen and didn't do anything to get Josh or his daughters help, if Oprah hadn't gotten wind of the story and reported it to the police, it would not have been reported at all

As for him shaming his dad for not working hard enough, that is insulting he was able to send his children to a Christian school and I'm sure helped Jim Bob and Michelle out financially when they first started out. Him shaming Deanna for having Amy out of wedlock too is horrible, Deanna at least didn't keep on popping out children, when they couldn't afford to.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

You'd think TLC would get wind of this and not feature them on CO but nope. 

[Satan'sFortress]

10 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

....meanwhile one of the other boys who didn't listen to Austin...well he (accidentally?) fucking gouged his eye out with a screwdriver or some shit!

Rufus forgive me, but I admit to laughing out loud when JB told that story.  It isn't funny that the guy lost his eye---just the way JB said it, as if there were an absolute, direct link to the smoking & drinking and the loss of the eye.  As if everyone would inherently understand that.  "Ya'll know how it goes, right, so I probably don't even have to tell you that he lost an eye!"

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

20 hours ago, Cheetah said:

I'm sure we've talked about this elsewhere but there's some research showing that people who are drawn to fundamentalism are much more black and white thinkers (also fear-based thinkers) than average.   It's like they lack an ability to see shades of gray.  I'm multitasking (catching up on Game of Thrones ;-)) so not going to try to look it up right now ,.. maybe someone else will... but I think I've seen where someone did MRI scans comparing the brains and there's a clear difference.  

I've read that study (or one similar to it) in a critical thinking class, it was interesting, the professor had people who identified as liberal sit on one side of the room and those who identified as conservative on the other and sit in the middle if you weren't sure. She then gave us a series of questions and had people move sides based on answers, everyone in the middle moved to the liberal side and a handful of conservative people moved over to liberal and vise versa and then we talked about critical thinking and gray areas. 

[Firebird]

Jim Bob basically believes in the prosperity gospel. He said something along the lines of the Bible says if you follow God you will be blessed, and you want to be blessed right? 

A lot of the circles I ran in viewed things in two categories. Either you were being sinful and God was allowing things to happen to you so He could get your attention and you could repent or you were so holy and godly, that like Job, God was allowing bad things to happen so He could prove to Satan how holy you were. I was also told that if you life was too easy you obviously were being a luke warm Christian and Satan thought He had already made you ineffective for Christ, so you should rejoice in suffering because you could prove how Godly you were. 

[Satan'sFortress]

@Firebird  Thanks--that explanation is really helpful. I can't ever quite get how they explain stuff---if a godly person lost an eye, for example.

[Firebird]

@Satan'sFortress

No problem. I'm kind of figuring out for myself how messed up the beliefs I had were. I'm having to really dig through my beliefs. I wasn't ATI, but my dad borrowed from various teaching so he could stay in control and I went to a small private school that had some ATI kids and we had to cater to them so that their parents wouldn't pull them from the school, as the school was struggling financially. 

Many of the fundamentalists believe what I wrote in my previous post as a way to comfort themselves when bad things happen. They can't accept that their omnipotent God would allow bad things to happen and for them to be uncomfortable, so obviously there is a reason. If you're of high social standing and look and act pious it's because God is allowing you to be tested, if you see your neighbor, that you've secretly been jealous of, struggling it's obviously because they weren't good enough. 

This model works fine and dandy for most things, until the big unexplainable stuff happens. For example: I had a very early miscarriage/ chemical pregnancy. I was devastated. I believed I must not have been good enough and God took my baby away because I was going to be a horrible mother.  I was not very involved at church at that time, and I figured it was punishment. It's taken me a long time to stop blaming myself.

Fundies believe everything has an explanation. I can't remember if I was taught this or if I came to this conclusion myself during my almost fundie phase, but things like the holocaust were explained as God's way of getting an Israeli nation formed to line up with Biblical prophesies. Many believed 9/11 was God trying to get us to become a Christian nation. I was taught that the South should have won the civil war, because the North started us becoming a socialist big-government nation. Most of the people that I know that sport Confederate flags don't do so out of racism, but the belief that the Confederacy supported small local governments (I realize this doesn't apply to everyone, this is just my experience with the people I have interacted with. I do not live in the South. I'm from rural Western New York.) Fundies operate out of fear. Their supposed "joy in the Lord" is their way of masking their fear and putting on a happy face. Many prep for when the government will turn on Christian's and put them in concentration camps or kill them. 

However, I will say that some of the people I interacted with aren't crazy. They are hardworking people that really want a family centered lifestyle. Many are really sweet and have a good sense of humor and are incredibly hardworking and generous. They just let the fear take over.

[EyesOpen]

The theology is really messed up in my mind. A man is not responsible for the woman’s sins or ‘leading her astray’. We will all answer for our own lives... works or legalism will not get you to Heaven. You’re not better than some Christians if you practice legalism. Al are saved by grace alone if they accept Jesus as your savior... lastly, there is some prosperity gospel mixed in there . If you just pray and wear skirts enough God will provide... although many families live in poverty saying they’re trusting on the Lord but not getting jobs and working... gaaa the whole interview just reminded me why I grew to really dislike this family and their proselytizing.

[Bobology]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I've read that study (or one similar to it) in a critical thinking class, it was interesting, the professor had people who identified as liberal sit on one side of the room and those who identified as conservative on the other and sit in the middle if you weren't sure. She then gave us a series of questions and had people move sides based on answers, everyone in the middle moved to the liberal side and a handful of conservative people moved over to liberal and vise versa and then we talked about critical thinking and gray areas. 

This is important and is one reason why going to reputable schools is important. The kids/people who go to paper schools* don't get this sort of interaction, whether it comes from a prof or just a group of students hanging out.

*Paper schools... my term for schools that allow people to collect certificates and diplomas and degrees and such but they never left their house to get them. I could also call those schools 'underwear schools.' I am not at all against homeschooling. My years of work experience has shown me that homeschooling is good, possibly the best thing, for some students when the caring parent does it correctly. But most students will ultimately be better off from having the interaction that a heterogenous group of students/faculty can provide.

[Firebird]

Something else I want to add because I've been sitting and dwelling on my past ideology and this came up, but it's along the idea of fundamentalist ideas being based out of fear. I am only speaking out of my experience. I know some fundies hate those of the LGBTQ society simply because they hate them and I don't want to invalidate anyone's experiences. I am just trying to enlighten others about the fundie thought process. Some of my experiences are based more on my father who tended towards a conspiracy theorist narcissist. Some fundies act out of the fear that if they remain silent they are condoning behavior they believe is unbiblical which means they are sinning. If they are sinning they won't be blessed and God will stop blessing America. My dad taught me that Islamic Arabs was secretly pushing the LGBTQ "agenda" so that our birth rate would drop. Then they would sneak their women in and have tons of babies so that they could take over the country either from within or from war. Many fundies believe that if they don't vocalize their disagreement, then God will allow our nation to crumble because America wasn't mentioned in the book of Revelations, so their conclusion is LGBTQ and abortion will lead to either a civil war or take over from another country where all the Christians will be persecuted and put in concentration camps.

@Bobology @allthegoodnamesrgoneI watched a Ted talk on youtube about an ex Westboro baptist member and she talked about how logical conversations with people of differing viewpoints eventually led her to realizing that what she was doing was wrong. Fundies tend towards isolationist black and white thinking. 

[DarkAnts]

14 hours ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

Is Derick just trying to troll here or is he implying he actually drinks alcohol?

 

I think Jinger and Jeramy drank wine on their honey moon. I would not surprised if Derick occasionally drinks too. Both couples don’t follow the standard Duggar rules. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Jinjer shared a photo with sparkling cider in those bottles that look like wine bottles. I'm sure he's just trolling. (Even though I don't understand why fundies are so opposed to wine, but whatever)

I feel bad for Israel getting a toothbrush as a gift for doing a workbook per her insta. Dental hygiene shouldn't be considered a prize. I doubt this was a case of her trying to make something mundane sound fun either. 

[AtlanticTug]

I was just thinking how MEchelle gives herself a perfect out with the whole "the leader will be judged for how he led" line of thinking. Basically it lets her daughters off the hook entirely in her view - it's their heathen, worldly husbands that have led them astray into pants-wearing territory. 

I'm not surprised that she comes across as the more fanatical of the two between them. She's basically the equivalent of a religious convert in adulthood - those people can be batshit crazy fanatical a lot of the time as if they have a massive chip on their shoulder. 

[onekidanddone]

5 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I was just thinking how MEchelle gives herself a perfect out with the whole "the leader will be judged for how he led" line of thinking. Basically it lets her daughters off the hook entirely in her view - it's their heathen, worldly husbands that have led them astray into pants-wearing territory. 

I'm not surprised that she comes across as the more fanatical of the two between them. She's basically the equivalent of a religious convert in adulthood - those people can be batshit crazy fanatical a lot of the time as if they have a massive chip on their shoulder. 

So by that way of thinking JB is to blame for number one son being a complete and total turd face. 

[onekidanddone]

22 hours ago, CharlieInCharge said:

@mollysmom Here ya go!

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=10662&v=ceMEPw5VV00

 

Just started watching and got a kick that they are giving out copies of the book the oldest daughters wrote. They must have a warehouse full of overstock.

[apandaaries]

3 hours ago, Firebird said:

I was taught that the South should have won the civil war, because the North started us becoming a socialist big-government nation. Most of the people that I know that sport Confederate flags don't do so out of racism, but the belief that the Confederacy supported small local governments (I realize this doesn't apply to everyone, this is just my experience with the people I have interacted with. I do not live in the South. I'm from rural Western New York.) Fundies operate out of fear.

I'd like to challenge this statement.  It sounds like you're still working your way out of fundamentalism, and good show for that. But while these people may not be explicitly using the N-word or riding around with white hoods, but they can certainly contribute to creating and maintaining a very racist environment and culture. For example, do they actually have any Black friends? Are they aware of what life circumstances are like for Black people in the US, the generations of oppression, segregation, and second-class citizenship? Do these folks support Blue Lives Matter, rather than Black Lives Matter?

I'm a white woman who likes to discuss race but apparently for some racists, they see my skin and assume I think as they do.  This leads to them telling me things they might not otherwise...then we get into occasionally heated discussions. I knew a guy who swore that Sally Hemings must have loved Thomas Jefferson, even though she could never have possibly consented (she was considered property) and was about 14 when he began raping her. After all, Jefferson seemed to love her, so what's the issue? /sarcasm

I knew another white guy whose evidence of not being racist was the fact that his white fiancee had slept with a Black guy before meeting him.  He didn't consider himself racist whatsoever, but somehow the racial "purity" of her vag was what made him not racist (she'd also slept with a number of white guys too, but NBD. They weren't Black). 

The idea that small government is best when it allows and encourages the ownership of and violence toward one race is preposterous. One cannot ignore slavery when considering the Civil War. I encourage you to reconsider the stances these people have taken and to critically examine them. Racism exists on a spectrum, so don't be too quick to id folks as "not-racist" because they adore small government (or so they claim), but don't mind police killing Black folks in the street. 

Here's a link to a lot of Harvard tests about implicit bias: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html 

[RosyDaisy]

I am from Alabama. I can assure you that those in the South who fly the Confederate flag are indeed racist. They sugar coat it by claiming saying Southern pride.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

@Bobology just a disclaimer I've gone to physical university and gone to "paper school" I floundered greatly at a physical university, I have ADD and find structured learning torture. I excelled at online school, learning at my own pace and in my own way was a Godsend , and for people with learning/social disabilities these schools are an amazing resource.  However you need to find a GOOD online university, not just a for profit give us your money we'll give you your diploma. I got my degree from a university  that has been "in business" since 1847 and has a physical campus as well as an online one. 

[Firebird]

@apandaaries

You make good points. Where I am is very rural and has a mainly white population. I appreciate your input. I wasn't trying to push buttons, but merely explain what the "reasons" are that have been presented to me for having a Confederate flag. Some of the people I know are flat out racist and I try to challenge them when I can. (Sometimes they are just so narcissistic and narrow minded getting into a "discussion" isn't even worth it). Some people I know are just ignorant and haven't been exposed to any other way of life. Their big move in life was to a neighboring rural county and the closest Wal-Mart to me isn't even open 24/7. I'm not excusing their ignorance or condoning their behavior or beliefs. I guess I try to get the people I interact with to see the human behind the beliefs. I want the people of free hunger to understand that not all fundies are half-crazed lunatics that would shoot you rather than talk to you, just like I try to talk to some of my fundie friends and get them to understand that the world is not inherently trying to destroy them. I liked what this girl said in the Ted talk. It explains it better than I can.

 

[onekidanddone]

25 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

@Bobology just a disclaimer I've gone to physical university and gone to "paper school" I floundered greatly at a physical university, I have ADD and find structured learning torture. I excelled at online school, learning at my own pace and in my own way was a Godsend for people with learning/social disabilities these schools are an amazing resource.  However you need to find a GOOD online university, not just a for profit give us your money we'll give you your diploma. I got my degree from a university  that has been "in business" since 1847 and has a physical campus as well as an online one. 

I also have ADD. Many brick and mortar universities have on line classes.  If I ever try to finish my degree that is the best way I think I could do it. 

[Firebird]

@apandaaries

I tried a few of those Iat tests. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[Lynn18]

The whole "leader will be judged thing". In the wayback, say about 18 or so years ago, I attended a mom's group. Unknowingly that it was run by the local 'megachurch'. One sassy girl I was drawn to, she had two kids, was big into the church, her husband was as well, a youth leader or somesuch. He also worked (perhaps he still does) at a local casino (the horror!). I could never get her to understand the whole your husband works for an evil place why doesn't that make him evil? She used the leader will be judged thing to get herself and her kids off the hook. Needless to say, we no longer speak.

 

I just can't with some people.

[Bad Wolf]

So Boob was quite comfortable telling of the evils that might befall these young people if they stray from the narrow path. He brought in the examples of his sister, who had an out of wedlock pregnancy, Austin's friend who poked his eye out with a screwdriver, Michelle who had no standards, etc. Where was his testimony about Joshy boy. Hypocrite much?

[freethemall]

19 hours ago, apandaaries said:

MEchelle earns her nickname by prattling on about herself again, which is what she did in response to the question about how they felt about some of their daughters wearing pants.

I'm curious, what did they say about the daughters wearing pants? And tank tops and nose rings?