Duggars By the Dozen 34: Lens Flare Photo with the Grandkids

[Eponine]

@Knight of Ni There is sort of a difference: if someone says they are a harper it usually means they play a lever harp and they might focus primarily on "Celtic" music (putting it in quotes because it's often said that way but it's not super accurate). A lever harp is smaller than a modern concert harp and uses levers the player manages with their hands to modulate keys - move notes up or down a half step. They look like what you might imagine an Irish harp might look like - you can see the levers at the top, and they usually have a curved post:

Harpers generally play folk or traditional music, sometimes with a singer or maybe one other instrumentalist, rather than orchestral. They are also MUCH lighter and more movable.

Generally if someone says they're a harpist (like me) they play pedal, or concert, harp. Modern pedal harps are quite a bit larger and have more strings than lever harps, and they use foot pedals to modulate rather than the hand levers. They look like any harp you'd see in a regular orchestra - note the foot pedals at the bottom and straight post:

Harpists generally play classical or orchestral music.

That said, most people who play the harp can play either version of the instrument and either type of music. And at least in my area, most students start on a lever harp to begin learning and move on to a pedal harp later. The harper/harpist label can be a weirdly touchy topic among people who play it. ?

[Georgiana]

I always think it's terribly sad that these kids are forced/encouraged to "exhibit" second-rate skills and do so proudly simply because they never had access to proper instruction and are too sheltered to know how their performance stacks up.  Josie is singing because she's been told to, because she's been told her singing is good, and because she's under the impression that this is something she should be proud of.  It's not surprising at all she has an element of pride in her abilities..she's been told she is very good, and how would she know any better? 

What's sick and twisted is that that her parents are encouraging her to do this and likely heaping undeserved praise on her so that she'll continue to perform, KNOWING her current skills do not merit the praise or performances she gets, and that someday she'll likely realize that she wasn't that good...and suddenly her whole childhood will be engulfed in shame, questioning, and confusion as she has to sort through all the lies she was told.  And that's assuming that this doesn't become an integral part of her own identity, in which case she may be even more devastated.

And Michelle and JB are not THAT sheltered.  They've been exposed to fundie families with actual musical instruction.  They've been exposed to better.  They KNOW that Josie doesn't stack up that well, just like they KNEW Jana wasn't really a concert pianist because, come on, we KNOW you've seen Erin Bates play so you KNOW there are higher levels.  They are lying and exposing their children to criticism and humiliation for $$$.  It's disgusting.  But it's also basically how they've been treating their kids since the family size exceeded JB's personal earning capacity.  

But it's not Josie's fault.  Poor lamb is just an animal in this circus.  

[Ms. Brightside]

@Georgiana that’s a really interesting point... on the flip side, I have met more than my fair share of “stage parents” who legitimately think their child is the prettiest/most talented/smartest/whatever kid in the room, when it’s clear to others that this is not the case. They have blinders on when it comes to their own child, and see them as more talented than their peers, even when the rest of us see a clear gap in achievement. I wonder if the Duggars truly know that they are doing Josie a disservice? My impression was always that they fully believe their children are every bit as talented as they say they are. 

As far as how that will affect Josie, I will be interested to see. Many of the kids I have dealt with who have stage parents end up moving away from the field their parents are pushing them into, often because “someone is holding the child back because they are jealous of the child’s abilities.” The kids rarely seem to reach the maturity level of actually understanding how far behind their peers they are before they are pulled off of the high-performance track. 

[Shadoewolf]

^ this. There's supporting a child and giving them confidence then there's overinflating their ego so much that they go up against people who are genuinely good, fall flat and can't cope, ala Johnny Manziel. 

Sadly though I think this is lost on the Duggars in that I'd bet anyone who tried to advise or criticize, even constructively, would probably be brushed off as jealous or not being Godly. 

@Ms. Brightside I'm a hockey parent. That type of behavior runs rampant and my kid is 10!! We CHOOSE to keep our son on house leagues because the focus is more on skill development than winning.  Parents who drop literally thousands every year for clinics and travel teams and talk shit thinking their kid is the next Sidney Crosby. Which bleeds down into their kids, who scoff and walk away when my son tries to engage with them. Only to step to the blue line against him and get blown out of the water. THEN suddenly they want to talk. We also have a policy where if he decides he doesn't want to do it anymore, he finishes the current season to honor his commitment then he can stop. 

[Iamtheway]

I tell my kid he’s the best kid in the whole world and that I love him more then anything every day. I tell him he’s good at the things he likes doing and that he has to practice if he wants to get better. He tells me he’s already the best because he’s four.

If he wanted to make a cd I’d help him make one, get a couple of copies and give them to his grandparents. I wouldn’t sell it to strangers on the internet. But who’s surprised? Their whole claim to fame comes from them selling their kids to the public. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

No food processor here - just a blender, which I do use frequently for smoothies. I also have a crockpot and a microwave. 

And I just have to say, @SilverBeach's pizza cutter for dicing veggies comment just changed.my.life. lol

[tabitha2]

There was a shootout in Tontitown today. Is this near the Duggars?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/dashcam-video-shows-dramatic-arkansas-traffic-stop-shootout/2018/11/15/95e4a4f6-e8f3-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

There was a shootout in Tontitown today. Is this near the Duggars?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/dashcam-video-shows-dramatic-arkansas-traffic-stop-shootout/2018/11/15/95e4a4f6-e8f3-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html

They live a little outside of Tontitown, so yes, it’s in their community. The article doesn’t give an exact location.

[theotherelise]

This article says it was on South Barrington Road near Steele Road. I don't know exactly where the Duggars live, but I think that was pretty close by.

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2018/nov/14/video-dash-cam-video-of-tontitown-car-c/

Edit: Image of map showing streets and proximity under spoiler

Spoiler

 

[church_of_dog]

I think regardless of physical distance to the occurrence, the fact of the cop being shot at, combined with JD being any brand of local law enforcement, will make this a traumatic incident to them, and understandably so.  Even assuming JD is off on his honeymoon, but even moreso if he was actually in town/on duty that day.

[Meggo]

20 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

^ this. There's supporting a child and giving them confidence then there's overinflating their ego so much that they go up against people who are genuinely good, fall flat and can't cope, ala Johnny Manziel. 

Sadly though I think this is lost on the Duggars in that I'd bet anyone who tried to advise or criticize, even constructively, would probably be brushed off as jealous or not being Godly. 

@Ms. Brightside I'm a hockey parent. That type of behavior runs rampant and my kid is 10!! We CHOOSE to keep our son on house leagues because the focus is more on skill development than winning.  Parents who drop literally thousands every year for clinics and travel teams and talk shit thinking their kid is the next Sidney Crosby. Which bleeds down into their kids, who scoff and walk away when my son tries to engage with them. Only to step to the blue line against him and get blown out of the water. THEN suddenly they want to talk. We also have a policy where if he decides he doesn't want to do it anymore, he finishes the current season to honor his commitment then he can stop. 

My boy isn't in hockey yet (he's five - that's LATE for Canada) but we'll likely be putting him in sometime this spring. And my goal really is so that he learns how to skate. I don't want him to have to go to a skating party and have to sit out. My nephews are IN to hockey - they discuss plays at dinner, the 8 year old asks if this meal has enough protein for him after hockey etc. Both boys are on travel leagues and take it VERY seriously. (to the point I wonder if the boys want it -or if the dad does). 

If my son wants to play - great. If he wants to stop after the season? Okay. Like you said - honor the commitment - but you can quit. (it's the same with anything else he wants to do. He asked NOT to do gymnastics this time - so I agreed.)

[Shadoewolf]

Sa@Meggo Look for Try Hockey Free events, they start real young and it's just fun. Basic Learn to Skate classes are the best to start and FAR cheaper then hockey to start. Gives kids a good foundation to build on (gets them comfortable, teaches them basics on starting, stopping, little bit of backwards, using their edges) If you're anywhere still close to SE Michigan I can give you some good rinks. 

Also if they have a used/consignment store like Play It Again near you, go with it! Hockey gear is outrageously expensive brand new. Only thing we always buy new are helmets and we use HockeyMonkey for good prices. 

My son had 3 coaches trying to recruit him for travel this year. We turned them all down because travel doesn't become important until 14U, so we're sticking with house leagues for fall and spring. It's a rough sport to handle sometimes.

[habert]

We have entered a period of no publicly pregnant Bates or Duggar. Today is day 8. How long will it last...

When was the last time even??

[singsingsing]

Well over a decade ago I read a birth announcement in the paper that I've never forgotten. Of course I can't remember the actual surname now, but it started something like this:

"Somebody broke the pact, and the Anderson blight continues!"

That's what I keep thinking now with no known Duggar pregnancies. Who's going to be the one to break the pact and continue the blight?!

[Natalie22]

Hey everyone, slightly off topic, but I was listening to a bunch of podcasts today, and I came across this one that deals with numbers and statistics from the BBC.  They looked at whether homebirths or hospital births are safer in the UK.  Since the UKs system gets talked about a lot, I thought there might be some interest in hear it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b493vt.  Its the last story in the podcast, so you either have to skip to the story or listen to the one about how many witches and wizards in Harry Potter live in the UK and Ireland, but thats a feature not a bug to me  

[Meggo]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:31 PM, Shadoewolf said:

Sa@Meggo Look for Try Hockey Free events, they start real young and it's just fun. Basic Learn to Skate classes are the best to start and FAR cheaper then hockey to start. Gives kids a good foundation to build on (gets them comfortable, teaches them basics on starting, stopping, little bit of backwards, using their edges) If you're anywhere still close to SE Michigan I can give you some good rinks. 

Also if they have a used/consignment store like Play It Again near you, go with it! Hockey gear is outrageously expensive brand new. Only thing we always buy new are helmets and we use HockeyMonkey for good prices. 

My son had 3 coaches trying to recruit him for travel this year. We turned them all down because travel doesn't become important until 14U, so we're sticking with house leagues for fall and spring. It's a rough sport to handle sometimes.

There is the most amazing program here called “first shift”. Starts at age 6 with kids who are “late” to skating. I think it’s $299 but for that you get all the lessons and ALL of the gear. Skates, pads, helmets, lessons for parents on how to put it all on (ha!). And then they scrimmage so they both learn to skate and learn hockey (the basics anyway).

we will likely do that- depending on how particular they are about BEING 6 when it starts, maybe in January..

I tried to take adult skating lessons again this winter but I have been the only one signed up for the last two sessions. That way I can feel more confident going out on the ice with him. 

[Shadoewolf]

The Red Wings have a program like that called Little Wings. My son did it his first year too. Kids had another tough game today and refs that failed to call an obvious slash, called a goal that was offsides and another where they should've blown the whistle cuz the goalie was down and had it covered, the kid crashed the goalie, popped it loose and scored. So BS. Time to get back to moving!

[AussieKrissy]

On 11/17/2018 at 5:18 AM, Meggo said:

My boy isn't in hockey yet (he's five - that's LATE for Canada) but we'll likely be putting him in sometime this spring. And my goal really is so that he learns how to skate. I don't want him to have to go to a skating party and have to sit out. My nephews are IN to hockey - they discuss plays at dinner, the 8 year old asks if this meal has enough protein for him after hockey etc. Both boys are on travel leagues and take it VERY seriously. (to the point I wonder if the boys want it -or if the dad does). 

If my son wants to play - great. If he wants to stop after the season? Okay. Like you said - honor the commitment - but you can quit. (it's the same with anything else he wants to do. He asked NOT to do gymnastics this time - so I agreed.)

Just out of curiosity what age do they normally start? 

Its quiet a physical game, do they tone it down for the young ones. Play a (I’m not sporty so I don’t know terms) restricted version? Less violent. Eg touch football is an example or we have soccer that has less rules for the younger players? 

[Natalie22]

19 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Just out of curiosity what age do they normally start? 

Its quiet a physical game, do they tone it down for the young ones. Play a (I’m not sporty so I don’t know terms) restricted version? Less violent. Eg touch football is an example or we have soccer that has less rules for the younger players? 

When my brother played, there was no body checking until I think about 11? or so.  I can't really remember.  And then they typically have a few clinics the kids go to to learn how to take a check, how to reduce potential injuries.  I don't think checking is allowed in women and girls hockey at all though.

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Just out of curiosity what age do they normally start? 

Its quiet a physical game, do they tone it down for the young ones. Play a (I’m not sporty so I don’t know terms) restricted version? Less violent. Eg touch football is an example or we have soccer that has less rules for the younger players? 

It'll be toned down to an age appropriate level.

For people who a serious about their kids playing (and a lot of others who just want them to learn for fun or whatever), they tend to start around age 2 or 3. Organized minor hockey usually starts around age 4. That doesn't mean you can't get into it at a later age, though.

[viii]

Kids learn to skate right after they learn to walk basically. Hockey is srs bizness in Canada. 

[Shadoewolf]

Try Hockey for Free through USA Hockey starts at age 4 here in the States. Some rinks offer preschool learn to skate as young as 2 and 3. Then you have mini mites, mites which are half ice, squirts start full ice which is what my son is, pee-wee, etc. USA hockey just increased the age to check up to 14U to prevent early injuries and they are taught very specifically how to do it carefully. Girls play and check too!

My son started around age 8 which is considered very late and in the last 2 years it has just clicked and he's a demon on the ice. 

[Meggo]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:08 AM, AussieKrissy said:

Just out of curiosity what age do they normally start? 

Its quiet a physical game, do they tone it down for the young ones. Play a (I’m not sporty so I don’t know terms) restricted version? Less violent. Eg touch football is an example or we have soccer that has less rules for the younger players? 

That's what startled me (as a transplant to Canada). That 6 is a "late start" - how early do you START these little people in hockey?

And some parents have their kids out there on the ice (not necessarily playing hockey) as soon as they can walk. Tiny bitty little wobbly tots on skates.
But I have nephews who around about 8 maybe? and their travel league just won some tourney. But I don't want him to get into travel league unless he loves it - his family is constantly at a practice, clinic, game or something, Nearly every night, definitely every weekend. I don't want to sign up for that. And they have two boys - who don't play on the same team - so all of that - times two. And I am not convinced the boys love it - I think they get pressured by their dad to love it.

 

[patsymae]

On 8/20/2018 at 6:38 PM, Georgiana said:

The story of Nicholas and Alexandra is one that fascinates me.  I encourage ANYONE with interest on the topic to read the biography on them by Robert K. Massie.  Not only is he a prominent and recognized historian with regards to Imperial Russia...his son also has hemophilia.  His biography of Nicholas and Alexandra is therefore unique in that he is able to provide an inside perspective on the psychological stresses of being a parent of a child with hemophilia. 

Because that really did change both Nicholas and Alexandra dramatically.  Alexandra ranks as one of my most hated historical figures (she REALLY gets under my skin for some reason), but it's rather undeniable that she was suffering from incredible mental and emotional stress for which she had no method of coping.  Her mental distress (I'm resisting calling it a mental illness, but she probably would have been diagnosed today) eventually manifested in physical symptoms and invalidity, and her reliance on Rasputin was the last-ditch response of a truly desperate mother trying to very literally save the life of her son.

Neither Nicholas or Alexandra were bad people.  They were insufficient people.  They made many poor choices and did many bad things, but there is almost no evidence that they did so maliciously or even selfishly in most cases.  They both wrote prolifically enough that we have their reasoning for most of their terrible decisions, and if you strip away hindsight, they often made sense on some level, though often a level lower than they should have been thinking.  They simply had placed on their shoulders almost inhuman burdens: the fate of a clearly dying autocracy, the fate of their terminally ill son, the fate of one of the largest nations in the world.  And while exceptional people might have risen to the occasion, neither one of them were exceptional.  They were, like most people, rather average.  And average was never going to be enough.

It's interesting to note that Nicholas II and George V of the UK were close.  Not only did they look exceptionally alike (they were regularly mistaken for the other, even at family gatherings), they also were VERY similar in personality.  George V is largely considered a very good king, if not a great one.  Had Nicky been given the role of George V in a constitutional monarchy where his role would have been largely as a figurehead, we would almost certainly remember him quite differently.  Like George V, Nicky was a great family man who cultivated genuine domestic harmony.  He cared deeply and personally for his subjects.  He would sacrifice almost anything for his country, including his own life.  Yet sadly the one thing he couldn't sacrifice was what doomed him: he refused to marry for duty as opposed to love, something many royals struggled with in the modern era.  His marriage was one of the few times Nicholas did something for purely selfish reasons.

And ultimately he paid for his marriage in his own blood. 

All true enough, but he also enjoyed a good pogrom.

 

[nastyhobbitses]

21 minutes ago, patsymae said:

All true enough, but he also enjoyed a good pogrom.

 

Yup, he was SUPER fucking anti-Semitic (though then again, most non-Jews in Russia were in those days). He also choked whenever he had to make actual tough decisions and threw away his last chance to save himself and his family by acting like a petulant brat about reforms that, had he pulled up his goddamn big boy panties and recognized that a constitutional monarchy would give him EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED (all the fun of being king with none of the decision making), would have probably saved his skin and/or placated enough moderates to at least postpone the shit that went down in 1917. But nope. 

I have a dim view of the both Nicky and Alix. I get that circumstances made them what they were and they weren't evil people, but they were monumentally stupid, short-sighted, egomaniacal, and incompetent, and their stupidity and incompetence cost millions of people their lives, themselves and their children included.