Mr & Mrs Jill Duggar 60: The Shilling Dillards

[luv2laugh]

Israel doesn’t look happy. Yes, kids need to have consequences for making a mess at 4 and clean up but why post it for your 300k+ following?! Who in their right mind would take a picture of teaching their child a lesson like this? Jill has been open about how happy she was with how she was raised and how Michelle “trained” them. They have made many references to child training. Given that context, I find it concerning. If my friend posted this, I wouldn’t think anything of it. Given that it’s Jill, I’m wondering why she posted this. It comes across as if she’s trying to open a discussion on training children or demonstrate to her fans that she is starting to “train” them.

[Georgiana]

13 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I think this is another classic case of Jill Dillard being Jill Dillard on social media - tone deaf and awkward.

Yeah, I agree.  I think posting kids' punishments on social media is inappropriate in general.  I understand people do it.  I understand that Jill Duggar is not alone in doing this.  But I don't like it when other people do it, and I especially don't like it when Jill does it because she has such a large public following.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Publicly documenting punishments is humiliating, IMO.  Everyone makes mistakes, but when we do make mistakes, we deserve to be corrected privately, especially when those mistakes are understandable because the offender is a child.  Izzy is a little human being, and he doesn't deserve to have his punishment put on blast for the world to see.  He is clearly upset and ashamed that he made a mistake.  Why does the world need to see that?  I mean, how would we like it if someone posted us getting a speeding ticket?  Or if our boss publicly berated us at work and someone recorded and posted it to Instagram?  We'd be rightfully angry because that would be shitty.  I don't think it's less shitty when it's a child.  I think it's MORE shitty because Jill has a duty to protect her kids and be someone they can trust, but instead she's acting like some dehydrated instagram try-hard who will sell her kids' shame for likes and follows.  

Jessa probably would have posted her kids drawing on the wall, and then left the punishment private.  That would have been relatable content that would be cute.  This just makes me feel uncomfortable, and like I said, that's an issue I have with many "social media mommies", not just Jill. 

[pandora]

34 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Israel doesn’t look happy. Yes, kids need to have consequences for making a mess at 4 and clean up but why post it for your 300k+ following?! Who in their right mind would take a picture of teaching their child a lesson like this? Jill has been open about how happy she was with how she was raised and how Michelle “trained” them. They have made many references to child training. Given that context, I find it concerning. If my friend posted this, I wouldn’t think anything of it. Given that it’s Jill, I’m wondering why she posted this. It comes across as if she’s trying to open a discussion on training children or demonstrate to her fans that she is starting to “train” them.

He might well not be happy in that moment. Parenting isn't about keeping your kid happy always. Feel free to critique her sharing it or speculate on whether the Dills are training him up Pearl-style, but it's sometimes strange to me that people believe they can read so well the faces of these strangers to say something significant about their lives. I think way too much stock gets put in both reading the expression of someone you don't know very well (case and point, if I had to guess, I don't think Iz looks distressed here, it's a subjective read. Short of crying or other tells, we don't personally know this kid and have a read on his expressions) and also in pictures without context- someone could look unhappy not because they hate their spouse but because it's hot or the baby just ripped ass or a million other reasons.

[onekidanddone]

I drew on the walls when I was about three, and my parents just put a desk in front of it.  Does Israel know he shouldn't draw on the walls?  If you don't tell a kid they have no idea it shouldn't be done. Well even if they do know he is a tiny child. That is what they do. 

My daughter at that age took a roll of stamps I had on my desk, thinking they were stickers proceeded to plaster them all over the place. I bought a new roll and hid them. She didn't get punished because to her they just looked like stickers, and kids LOVE stickers.

[justoneoftwo]

2 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I drew on the walls when I was about three, and my parents just put a desk in front of it.  Does Israel know he shouldn't draw on the walls?  If you don't tell a kid they have no idea it shouldn't be done. Well even if they do know he is a tiny child. That is what they do. 

My daughter at that age took a roll of stamps I had on my desk, thinking they were stickers proceeded to plaster them all over the place. I bought a new roll and hid them. She didn't get punished because to her they just looked like stickers, and kids LOVE stickers.

I would be surprised if he didn't know he was supposed to draw on paper.  My 2 year old knows that he draws on paper.  (He drew on a puzzle his nanny gave him once, I told him she might be hurt he didn't appreciate her gift and he cried like his heart was braking, it made me feel like a horrible mommy).  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Many kids know they shouldn't color on things that aren't paper and that doesn't stop them from coloring on things they shouldn't.  Having them clean up their mess is a perfect consequence, I've done that when my DD colored on the kitchen table at about the same age as Izzy she "helped" me scrub the table (t took much more elbow grease than a 3 year old could muster) as we cleaned the table I talked to her about only coloring on paper and not on things.  Sadly she had far to much fun "helping mama" so her real punishment was no colors for the rest of the day, and that she didn't like, but she didn't color on anything but paper again, at least on purpose.  We didn't have social media in 2003 but I'm fairly certain posting it online wouldn't have been my 1st thought. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

3 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Israel doesn’t look happy. Yes, kids need to have consequences for making a mess at 4 and clean up but why post it for your 300k+ following?! Who in their right mind would take a picture of teaching their child a lesson like this? Jill has been open about how happy she was with how she was raised and how Michelle “trained” them. They have made many references to child training. Given that context, I find it concerning. If my friend posted this, I wouldn’t think anything of it. Given that it’s Jill, I’m wondering why she posted this. It comes across as if she’s trying to open a discussion on training children or demonstrate to her fans that she is starting to “train” them.

Mah I don't see anything with this or with sharing it. my cousin's son cut his hair and she shared it on her facebook. people laughed over it and she talked about how she was sending him to day care like that. 

[nastyhobbitses]

6 hours ago, littlemommy said:

If a friend of mine posted that online I’d give it a “haha, we’ve all been there!”

Because every parent has. I was, however, uncomfortable with the friend that posted a picture of pen drawings on her car upholstery and asked “Should I spank him?” No way am I participating in an online poll about whether your kid gets spanked or not. 

If the kid is under like 3 or 4, the time it took for her to make a Facebook post to crowdsource questionable parenting decisions is probably enough time for the kid to forget what the fuck they did, so any punishment is, to them, just out-of-left-field Mommy being angry for no reason. 

[Georgiana]

51 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

My daughter at that age took a roll of stamps I had on my desk, thinking they were stickers proceeded to plaster them all over the place. I bought a new roll and hid them. She didn't get punished because to her they just looked like stickers, and kids LOVE stickers.

One time, after a seminar at the local library, my mom gave my friend and I "Mr. Yuk" stickers and asked us to label anything we "shouldn't put in our mouths".  We were between 3-4. and this seemed like a good, age appropriate activity for us while she fixed lunch.  

Here are some things you shouldn't put in your mouth: the couch, the TV, the chairs, every single Disney VHS, the toy chest, the VCR, the floor, the toilet, the walls...my mom says that when she came back into the room, every single surface below 3 ft had a Mr Yuk sticker on it.  We did not get in trouble.  After all, we did what we were told.  But for a long time, just about everything in the family room had a Mr Yuk sticker on it!

This is Mr Yuk, for those who may not be familiar:

[tabitha2]

1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

I drew on the walls when I was about three, and my parents just put a desk in front of it.  Does Israel know he shouldn't draw on the walls?  If you don't tell a kid they have no idea it shouldn't be done. Well even if they do know he is a tiny child. That is what they do. 

My daughter at that age took a roll of stamps I had on my desk, thinking they were stickers proceeded to plaster them all over the place. I bought a new roll and hid them. She didn't get punished because to her they just looked like stickers, and kids LOVE stickers.

 He is a preschooler not an infant or toddler. A preschooler is at a perfect age to be taught actions have have consequences. This was an appropriate consequence.No, kids are not going to happy to be chastised, made to clean walls and probably pitched a fit which would a normal and usual response for little kid.  IMO If you try to keep your kid happy 24/7 and don’t start  making  him learn young be prepared for what you get later.

 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Yeah, I agree.  I think posting kids' punishments on social media is inappropriate in general.  I understand people do it.  I understand that Jill Duggar is not alone in doing this.  But I don't like it when other people do it, and I especially don't like it when Jill does it because she has such a large public following.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Publicly documenting punishments is humiliating, IMO.  Everyone makes mistakes, but when we do make mistakes, we deserve to be corrected privately, especially when those mistakes are understandable because the offender is a child.  Izzy is a little human being, and he doesn't deserve to have his punishment put on blast for the world to see.  He is clearly upset and ashamed that he made a mistake.  Why does the world need to see that?  I mean, how would we like it if someone posted us getting a speeding ticket?  Or if our boss publicly berated us at work and someone recorded and posted it to Instagram?  We'd be rightfully angry because that would be shitty.  I don't think it's less shitty when it's a child.  I think it's MORE shitty because Jill has a duty to protect her kids and be someone they can trust, but instead she's acting like some dehydrated instagram try-hard who will sell her kids' shame for likes and follows.  

Jessa probably would have posted her kids drawing on the wall, and then left the punishment private.  That would have been relatable content that would be cute.  This just makes me feel uncomfortable, and like I said, that's an issue I have with many "social media mommies", not just Jill. 

I have this mental image of Jill and Jessa attempting to post on social media -

Jill: This may possibly make someone think I’m blanket training the kids. Should I post it?

Inner-Jill: POST IT!

Jill: But what i-

Inner-Jill: Did I fucking stutter? POST IT!

As opposed to Jessa -

Jessa: Should I post this? 

Inner-Jessa: I consulted our carefully constructed list of things the public doesn’t like and, “Anything even hinting at blanket training,” is totally on there. So don’t post it. 

Jessa: Cool. Thanks inner-me!

And here’s my totally accurate, in no way made up, post by Jessa about Spurgeon doing this:

This kid is a cutie, right?! But don’t let that sweet smile trick you! He can be a real handful!

Example:

This afternoon <insert boy emoji> was playing in the other room, while <insert baby emoji> was napping and I was cleaning. It was great finally getting a bit of time to tidy up, but I noticed it was pretty quiet. Any mom can tell you that quiet is very suspicious when you have a toddler. I walked into the other room and what do you think I saw? <insert boy emoji> coloring on the walls! <insert woman face palming herself emoji>

Being the self-proclaimed toddler expert I am, I confiscated the <insert crayon emoji, if there is one> and calmly sat down to talk it out with <insert boy emoji>. I <insert question mark emoji> why he colored on the walls and <insert boy emoji> said, “No paper!” <insert detective emoji> <insert woman facepalming herself emoji> #momdetective #boymom Come on now, y’all - who here can relate?! <insert monkey covering its eyes emoji>

P.S. Anyone know how to get crayon marks off of walls? <insert woman shrugging emoji> <insert laughing emoji> #lovemyboys #godisgood #jesuslovesthemall

[onekidanddone]

25 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

One time, after a seminar at the local library, my mom gave my friend and I "Mr. Yuk" stickers and asked us to label anything we "shouldn't put in our mouths".  We were between 3-4. and this seemed like a good, age appropriate activity for us while she fixed lunch.  

Here are some things you shouldn't put in your mouth: the couch, the TV, the chairs, every single Disney VHS, the toy chest, the VCR, the floor, the toilet, the walls...my mom says that when she came back into the room, every single surface below 3 ft had a Mr Yuk sticker on it.  We did not get in trouble.  After all, we did what we were told.  But for a long time, just about everything in the family room had a Mr Yuk sticker on it!

This is Mr Yuk, for those who may not be familiar:

I used them when I found out my daughter at the age of four could open child proof lids.  I heard a suspicious ratting sound coming from her room and discovered her stuffing calcium gummies by the handful .  She really didn't eat that many, but I didn't know if it would make her sick.  The woman on the phone said it was fine.  I was very emphatic that she never do that again.  She had a tantrum when I took the bottle away.  She was four.

[Meggo]

My son was three when we moved into this house. And he drew on the white cupboards with pen. 
His "punishment" (if you can call it that) was helping me try to get it off the cupboard. And then we talked about how it wasn't really nice to blame the cat. And Mommy wasn't mad - Mommy just wanted him to color on paper - not cupboards and walls.

I have no qualms making my son (now age 5) pick up his mess, clean up a spill, etc - to the best of his ability (and he does have to try, and Momma will help him if it's too big of a mess etc). But I don't think I'd post it? Not because it's shameful - but because it's just not that entertaining or funny. He does funny things all day long, sweet things, kind things - those are the things I like to share with family & friends. Not the world. 

ETA: 

But I also don't get mad at him for things that are clearly my fault. Leave a sharpie lying around and small child draws on self and walls? Who is to blame me? I will remind him that we color on paper - not people/walls - but really - I can't be TOO mad because he's a KID and doesn't really know a sharpie from a washable marker. That's on me. 

[onekidanddone]

Mr. OneKid took a photo with his phone when our daughter was in mid tantrum, she must have been eight or nine.  She then screamed at him NOW ARE GOING TO POST IT ON FACEBOOK.  To which he replied "I wasn't going to, but since you mentioned it I will now.

(he didn't post the photo)

[fundiesfordays]

This was Jill just trying to be a relatable "#boymom" like Jessa. She just failed, as usual.

I don't think the punishment was inappropriate, but I do think posting punishment on social media is inappropriate.

[Bad Wolf]

We had a 16 year old foster child who decided to help by running the dishwasher with dish soap. There were bubbles everywhere. We laughed, took a picture and handed her a mop. We gave her the picture in an album with other 'firsts".

[Mama Mia]

I think she’s just soooooo awkward. Nothing about the situation itself is bad - cleaning off the wall is totally appropriate - she just does it so badly!  I get it. I take horribly blurry pictures. And come from a family where most people have dark shadows under their eyes, naturally. But if you combine those things with a humorless 1 sentence caption —- just no. It comes across more Dickinson than cute / relatable parenting moment.  It’s interesting - because she and Jessa are really the two extremes of social media savvy. It reminds me of those Pinterest Fail memes. Same intended object, same components, but hilariously different results.

[SapphireSlytherin]

My SIL frequently "shames" her sons by posting their wrong-doings (whatever they may be) on FB. Her husband (my hubby's brother) will also do this, but not as often.

For example:  She'll take a photo of her TWENTY-YEAR-OLD's bedroom (which is generally trashed) and say something like, "Can you imagine living like this? He's 20! I guess he'll have to clean it up when he gets home from playing video games at the arcade."

Or, she'll post a photo of her 13-year-old trying to cook on a grill, mow the yard, ride a motorcycle the first time (and failing miserably), and say, "Nimrod is such an awkward boy! He doesn't understand even the basics of how things work. I'm surprised he knows how to get to school on his own!"

We've researched bringing the boys here to the USA to live with us, but it's impossible. Literally impossible, due to immigration laws.  We would be much better parents to those kids.

[singsingsing]

From my perspective, I don't think the punishment was inappropriate at all. And I don't even think sharing it on social media was that big of a deal. The issue all boils down to the way the picture looks. It's not, for lack of a better term, a very cute picture. Izzy is a cute kid, but this is a photo of him in poor lighting, looking tired and dejected and just kind of out of it. If he had been laughing, or even doing one of those exaggerate kid pouts, it might've been funny and relatable. By like so many of the things Jill posts, it ends up looking like, "Yikes. What's going on there? That poor kid looks miserable." 

(And yes, of course all kids look exhausted, miserable, or worn out from time to time, but those aren't the photos that people generally tend to share with their 1.6 million followers on Instagram, and Jill does this regularly. Sometimes it seems like she is actually totally clueless about what normal people would find cute vs. off-putting.)

[Dandruff]

Given Izzy's expression and position (not facing the wall), I imagine the photo may have been preceded by "Now we're going to show EVERYONE how you clean up the mess you made".

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

I drew on the walls when I was about three, and my parents just put a desk in front of it.  Does Israel know he shouldn't draw on the walls?  If you don't tell a kid they have no idea it shouldn't be done. Well even if they do know he is a tiny child. That is what they do. 

My daughter at that age took a roll of stamps I had on my desk, thinking they were stickers proceeded to plaster them all over the place. I bought a new roll and hid them. She didn't get punished because to her they just looked like stickers, and kids LOVE stickers.

When my GD was about 18 months old she drew on the wall outside the laundry room while in the care of her nanny...clearly, the nanny was busy with laundry and C. found something to draw on the wall with. All my daughter's friends and co-workers told them to frame it. They did leave it up for a good long time. C. claimed it was a picture of her mom washing her hair in the shower. LOL.

When my son was a toddler his favorite weapon was a black sharpie.

[Sky with diamonds]

I don't have a problem with Izzy cleaning up the mess. I do have a problem rather I don't like the fact  Jill shared the picture on social media. 

By the way... magic erasers are a great thing for getting marks of walls etc. My nephew had as much fun removing his art with a magic eraser as he did drawing it. He thought it was magic.

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, Sky with diamonds said:

By the way... magic erasers are a great thing for getting marks of walls etc.

I absolutely love magic erasers, I buy them by the bucketful. They really help keep things spiffy, with little effort or mess.

[TheOneAndOnly]

59 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

My SIL frequently "shames" her sons by posting their wrong-doings (whatever they may be) on FB. Her husband (my hubby's brother) will also do this, but not as often.

For example:  She'll take a photo of her TWENTY-YEAR-OLD's bedroom (which is generally trashed) and say something like, "Can you imagine living like this? He's 20! I guess he'll have to clean it up when he gets home from playing video games at the arcade."

Or, she'll post a photo of her 13-year-old trying to cook on a grill, mow the yard, ride a motorcycle the first time (and failing miserably), and say, "Nimrod is such an awkward boy! He doesn't understand even the basics of how things work. I'm surprised he knows how to get to school on his own!"

We've researched bringing the boys here to the USA to live with us, but it's impossible. Literally impossible, due to immigration laws.  We would be much better parents to those kids.

Sounds like she needs more comments on those posts along the lines of, "Gee, it's too bad those kids didn't have parents who helped them know how to live." If I were her fb friend she would get those. I am a total asshole about stuff like that. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

We had a 16 year old foster child who decided to help by running the dishwasher with dish soap. There were bubbles everywhere. We laughed, took a picture and handed her a mop. We gave her the picture in an album with other 'firsts".

my mom made that mistake once not thinking i think we used every towel in the house trying to clean it up.