Joy & Austin 23: Still Sticking Around

[just_ordinary]

14 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Israel and Gideon were both apparently breech and flipped during labor, so they had no way of knowing before hand. 

Sorry, but I call bullshit on both those instants. Flipping during labor can happen, but Israel and Gideon were both quite large and while Jill and Joy were probably in pain and not aware of everything going on with their bodies, I would think that would be pretty hard to miss.  They had shitty prenatal care and incompetent midwives. Joy's midwife at least had enough sense to send Joy to hospital 20 hours in, rather than waiting for two days like Jill did.

I still wonder about the 40h labour of Jill. 40h seems like pure hell, or did she count from the very first contraction? Normally people count from regular (1h+) and intensifying contractions  about 10min (or even 2-3min) apart onwards. Or the water breaking depending on what happens first. The water breaking or the 2-3 minute range is when people (here) normally go to hospital and that is when the clock starts ticking. Water break with no contractions does still not count as active labour I think. No way someone would get up to 40h. Even in a home birth every midwife would sent you to hospital way before that. With 40h I see her (and her body) being too exhausted pushing out a baby without help anyway even if it would have been a tiny baby in perfect position.

[Tatar-tot]

Major fail by “midwife JILL” - “labor is progressing” - HOW ON GOD’s GREEN EARTH COULD SHE NOT KNOW THE BABY WAS BREACH???

Jill is dangerous.

i am shocked ? at what happened during Joy’s labor.  This show demonstrates EPIC FAIL in homebirth.  

 

[CarrotCake]

On spelling of words:

English is not my first language but the only reason I know how to spel beautiful is because of Bruce Almighty.

[Grace]

12 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

I haven't seem Joy's birthing episode yet, but it sounds rough. I hope she opts for a birthing center or a hospital next time, and better prenatal care.

No birth center for JoyJoy. It is illegal in AR for midwives to deliver VBAC and the birth center here is only midwives.

Also, I can not spell vacuum on the first try to save my life and I have multiple degrees ? so she gets zero judgement from me. I too wrote to-do lists of very basic daily tasks when I had a new baby because it sucked my brain right out of my head via my breast milk apparently and I was useless without a list.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

15 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I haven't seen tonight's episode but I thought it sounded like she was laboring at home and when the midwife arrived she ascertained that the baby was breech and immediately sent Joy to the hospital. Did they actually say that the baby turned during labor?

Yes, however it is highly unlikely that tiny Joy's 10+ pound baby did.  They may have have assumed that head down prior to her going into labor, because that CAN be missed, if baby is head down butt up you can mistake the head for the bottom.  I know 4 women's who's baby flipped in the days prior to labor, my mom said my brother turned 2 times during her labor, he was breach, they flipped him head down, then he flipped back to breach, and then flipped back to head down as they were prepping her for a c/section, and then he stayed head down. But she is the only one I know who's baby flipped during labor.  

My mom is 5'11 and my brother was only 7 lbs. she had a little more space for a baby to wiggle around. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I still wonder about the 40h labour of Jill. 40h seems like pure hell, or did she count from the very first contraction? Normally people count from regular (1h+) and intensifying contractions  about 10min (or even 2-3min) apart onwards. Or the water breaking depending on what happens first. The water breaking or the 2-3 minute range is when people (here) normally go to hospital and that is when the clock starts ticking. Water break with no contractions does still not count as active labour I think. No way someone would get up to 40h. Even in a home birth every midwife would sent you to hospital way before that. With 40h I see her (and her body) being too exhausted pushing out a baby without help anyway even if it would have been a tiny baby in perfect position.

I think most women (at least the ones that I know) count from as soon as they notice that contractions have started. It is the only way I can see why some women claim to have 3 days labors. With #1 I started the timing of my labor from when they started the pitocen, my water broke about 4 hours prior to that, but I didn't' have any contractions, and I wasn't sure if they were going to induce me or put me in the hospital until i reached full term.   My labor was 22 hours long, but it was 26 hours from when my water broke. 

[AtlanticTug]

On 9/1/2018 at 9:21 PM, Rachel333 said:

 

I feel like there's a pretty big double standard in that people will ruthlessly mock everything Jill posts no matter how benign but apparently Joy is off limits,

I actually find Joy to be as unbearable as Jill. Moreover, I think that she and Austin are really dimwitted, much moreso than the Dillards.

[Dandruff]

Jill seemed to think things were going fine with the birth.  Joy ended up suffering for many hours before it was determined that she needed a c-section.  I don't remember hearing any mention of the baby turning.  I imagine that an outside midwife would have arrived before nearly a day had gone by and made the determination.

Didn't notice Jill anywhere near when Kendra was laboring.  I believe there's a reason.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Jill seemed to think things were going fine with the birth.  Joy ended up suffering for many hours before it was determined that she needed a c-section.  I don't remember hearing any mention of the baby turning.  I imagine that an outside midwife would have arrived before nearly a day had gone by and made the determination.

Didn't notice Jill anywhere near when Kendra was laboring.  I believe there's a reason.

Kendra and her family seem to be a lot smarter than the average Duggar. I also think Joe would go along with whatever she wanted. 

[Mama Mia]

6 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I still wonder about the 40h labour of Jill. 40h seems like pure hell, or did she count from the very first contraction? Normally people count from regular (1h+) and intensifying contractions  about 10min (or even 2-3min) apart onwards. Or the water breaking depending on what happens first. The water breaking or the 2-3 minute range is when people (here) normally go to hospital and that is when the clock starts ticking. Water break with no contractions does still not count as active labour I think. No way someone would get up to 40h. Even in a home birth every midwife would sent you to hospital way before that. With 40h I see her (and her body) being too exhausted pushing out a baby without help anyway even if it would have been a tiny baby in perfect position.

Years ago my friend had a long, slow, labor like that. The contractions were regular, about 5 -7 minutes apart forevvvvvverrrrrrrrrr. The hospital kept sending her away. So she’d alternate walking and resting. Sitting down to breathe through the contractions. Go back to the hospital every few hours ( it was very near her house ) , get checked, get sent back out to walk some more. They finally admitted her when she’d reached some point of dilation, but even then she spent the night at the hospital with the contractions still moderately spaced, moderate intensity. Slept in between them.  Right up to delivery -2+ days after they started -  they were just widely spaced and not that intense. My ex was her coach, said it was very interesting. 

[EyesOpen]

I just watched the entire counting on from joy’s birth. I don’t get bad vibes from Austin. I think he speaks plainly and frankly. I think he’s smart and a hard worker. Still all the ugly beliefs he was raised with but I think he loves Joy. He wanted what was best for her and was visibly shaken about seeing her in pain. He said holding his baby for the first time was very special to him. I liked when he called the baby food game obnoxious. 

i think what people notice is Joy has such a baby voice and never sounds sure if herself and it makes him seem assertive and domineering next to her. 

Being an EMT and having seen things go wrong, I wish he had put his foot down with Jill or Joy or whomever and gotten her to a hospital sooner...

[Shadoewolf]

I pointed this out right when Felicity was born but the glaring discrepancy for me was that Joy and Jill went 18+ hours each with no clue, with what we assume is substandard care. Jinger's midwife, who is a licensed CNM with a Master's degree, knew in 2 seconds flat that her baby was head down. And helped her progress and relax without it becoming an emergency. Why in the world would a midwife not recheck position more than once in 18+ hours with little to no progression? I get not checking dilation and stuff as frequently to avoid infection but position isn't something that's too invasive. Epic fail on the part of crappy midwives.

[karen77]

I think some people assume that that 22 hrs or whatever is stated is active labor, but usually it's not.. 

Looking back on my own for my son (kid 2) I was only in active labor from about 10 pm until he was born the next morning around 10 am. But had I counted back the non active labor (which I had to figure out after the fact) I'd probably been in labor for 24 hrs. I just didn't recognize it. 

I think they think longer labor sounds super impressive so they stretch it out when re-telling. Instead of saying, yeah... I was in active labor for 10 hrs, but contractions really started earlier that day, or something.

[VelociRapture]

21 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

Watching Joys full birth episode... I’m pretty certain Jill was the only midwife at her house. Why would Jill be taking her vitals if the real midwife was there? We’ve met Joys midwife before so I don’t think she would have just not been on camera... and they only referred to the midwife as “the midwife”.

but we only saw maybe 5 minutes of her labor 

Jill definitely wasn’t the only midwife present. A blonde woman was shown using a Doppler on Joy during the episode. I believe the Midwife you mention being shown on an earlier episode was also blonde, so I’d assume the blonde woman on this episode was the same Midwife and Jill was there to “assist” and offer support for her eldest daughter. 

And I’d assume Jill was shown taking her vitals either because the other Midwife hadn’t arrived yet or because the other Midwife was busy doing something else. I don’t think I’ve ever had a Doctor take my vitals before. As far as I recall it’s always been the Nurses or Medical Assistants who have done that part, so it doesn’t seem weird that Jill would do that part to me.

Midwife in an earlier episode:

Midwife with the Doppler in the birth episode:

Spoiler

That second screenshot was shown in a short webisode on YouTube. It came prior to a shot showing the clock at 5:53 in the morning, meaning the midwife was there well before Joy was transferred to the hospital that afternoon. 

[OldFadedStar]

@VelociRapture you are right! I wonder if I missed that second screenshot in the full episode or that part wasn't in it. I'll have to go back and check. 

[Carm_88]

Gideon was so big; I'm not sure Joy could have had a natural birth, even if he wasn't breech. 

[BunnyBee]

8 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Gideon was so big; I'm not sure Joy could have had a natural birth, even if he wasn't breech. 

But the Duggar girls know they have big babies, thats why Jinger's doctor decided to induce her early so she wouldnt have to try and deliver a duggar bowling ball. Joy could have done the same thing. 

[RubyRei]

Does anyone know if Joy’s birth special can be watched online?

[Carm_88]

4 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

But the Duggar girls know they have big babies, thats why Jinger's doctor decided to induce her early so she wouldnt have to try and deliver a duggar bowling ball. Joy could have done the same thing. 

Joy wasn't going to the doctor and wouldn't have gone to the hospital without good reason. Jinger was being pragmatic. Joy was assuming pray and it will be fine. 

[BunnyBee]

Just now, Carm_88 said:

Joy wasn't going to the doctor. That's the difference. 

Is Joy just younger and more naive?

Or do we think it was a Jeremy influence?  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Gideon was so big; I'm not sure Joy could have had a natural birth, even if he wasn't breech. 

I've said it before, but I don't think Gideon & Izzy were breach, it was just an excuse for the c/section.  It is much more acceptable to have a c/section for a breach baby than because you aren't womanly enough to deliver vaginally, at least in the fundy cults like Joy & Jill are part of.  Hopefully Joy, or Austin learned their lesson and the next Forsythe offspring will be born in the hospital, WITH proper medical care, either by a REAL midwife or a real doctor, not that quack they see occasionally.  

[Carm_88]

4 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

Is Joy just younger and more naive?

Or do we think it was a Jeremy influence?  

No, I don't think it was. Jinger seemed scared of giving birth and likely wanted the reassurance. 

Joy is drunk on the kool aid. As is Austin.

[nausicaa]

14 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Gideon was so big; I'm not sure Joy could have had a natural birth, even if he wasn't breech. 

I think it all depends on the inner opening of Joy's pelvis, any existing medical issues with mom or baby, and luck I suppose. 

My family has huge babies and everyone has a crazy easy labor. I was nine and a half pounds and my mom's smallest baby. My sister was 11 lbs and my brother was 12 freaking pounds*. She had an uneventful natural birth with each one of us and was ready to go home right afterwards (and was furious that they expected her to stay the night at the hospital). 

My mom is also thin and 5'7", so not super big. That woman was just designed to give Michelle Duggar a run for her money (but thankfully, used common sense and didn't). 

 

*My brother is not the record holder for biggest baby in the extended family. And no one has ever been diagnosed with gestational diabetes. ?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

Is Joy just younger and more naive?

Or do we think it was a Jeremy influence?  

I think it was Jeremy's influence.  Does anyone know if Austin's sister Meghan had her daughter at home or in the hospital? I wonder if Austin was born at home as well? That could make a huge difference too, if he was raised by a mom who delivered her babies at home, he wouldn't think twice about his wife having a baby at home. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

7 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I think it all depends on the inner opening of Joy's pelvis, any existing medical issues with mom or baby, and luck I suppose. 

This has everything to do with it.  I'm 5'8" and well over 200 pounds, but I have a narrow pelvis what is called a tipped uterus, it tilts toward my back instead of my front, my OB/GYN said the combination of the narrow pelvis (that I wish was a narrow on the outside of me as the inside) and tipped uterus makes delivering a baby very difficult, not impossible but difficult. Too add to that I had an 8 lb baby & a 9+ pound baby.  With my 1st I labored for 22 hours I dilated fully, I pushed for 4 hours and the baby never engaged in the birth canal (never have a baby on a holiday you get really shitty medical care when your OB is an asshole) and was FINALLY given a c/section as baby wasn't going anywhere.  Then there is my cousin, same height, but about 110 pounds, she delivered 3 babies vaginally and all were over 9 lbs and 1 over 10.